Does steaming a lobster to death cause it pain?

[Duddy]

Originally posted by: newb111

Originally posted by: darkxshade
I'm allergic to lobster 🙁

Lobster is allergic to boiling water.

Boiling water is allergic to air.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Invertebrates lack the portions of the nervous system required to feel pain.

Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
If it's living then it knows life and death. I'm sure a lobster knows it's about to die and that's got to be painful either mentally or physically.

Wow, this is rich, someone who makes the logical claim that bacteria suffer mental anguish.:laugh:

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: jagec
Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

*facepalm* Really? Seriously? One would think that people would at least try to educate themselves before saying crap like this, if only to avoid the embarassment when someone points out that there are many
different kinds of nerves, some of which don't feel (sense) anything.

I taught a neurophysiology lab. I sawed horseshoe crab eyes out with a hacksaw. The little buggers didn't even care. They swim around happy as a clam even after both eyes are gone because the only thing the eyes do is help them find a mate (or a reasonably similar cement block, a tire, or anything of approximately that size). Neuroscientists are pretty sure that invertebrates don't feel pain because they simply lack the faculties that are used by vertebrates to feel pain.

 

[randay]

i like it when they scream for help as i slowly dip them into the boiling water. oh wait, nm, thats just me making high pitched screaming sounds for fun.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jagec
Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

*facepalm* Really? Seriously? One would think that people would at least try to educate themselves before saying crap like this, if only to avoid the embarassment when someone points out that there are many
different kinds of nerves, some of which don't feel (sense) anything.

I taught a neurophysiology lab. I sawed horseshoe crab eyes out with a hacksaw. The little buggers didn't even care. They swim around happy as a clam even after both eyes are gone because the only thing the eyes do is help them find a mate (or a reasonably similar cement block, a tire, or anything of approximately that size). Neuroscientists are pretty sure that invertebrates don't feel pain because they simply lack the faculties that are used by vertebrates to feel pain.

Take some Ritalin and calm down. I'm agreeing with you. OK, maybe I should have said "sensory neurons" instead of the generic "nerves", but I would have thought that it would be obvious from context.

I also would have thought that it would be obvious from context that I meant "pain" in an evolutionary sense--that is, unwelcome stimulus likely to contribute to poor reproductive success. Temperature sensing counts if it is above a certain threshold. As lobsters are able to tell the difference between warm and hot (and react differently), I'd say that this counts under my broad definition which clearly differs from yours.

 

[Vic]

No. Lobsters and crabs don't even have brains or the ability to feel pain.

True story, I split a live crab in half once (edit: not maliciously, it just happened to be bigger than my pot while I was camping and crabbing), and it didn't die. This shocked me more than it did the crab.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
If it's living then it knows life and death. I'm sure a lobster knows it's about to die and that's got to be painful either mentally or physically.

Next thread - "Does chopping down a tree cause it pain?"

😉

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

I am stupid? Why am I stupid? YOU are the one that stated, and I quote, "Obviously they feel pain, otherwise they wouldn't be able to move away from things that are hurting them," and, "They're able to move around to find food, find mates, reproduce, fight other animals, etc. People need to wake up and realize that other animals do in fact have consciousness." I am well aware that they can sense their environment - I clearly stated as much in the post that you quoted. You are the "clueless noob" who equates sensation with pain and consciousness, which is pure fail since I also gave examples of cases where inanimate objects can sense things.

To be completely honest with you, you come off as a smug bitch.

Your arguments seem to be as bad as those that religious people use (that no animal can be similar to a human), which really are nothing more than thinly veiled attempts to justify their religion.

I really don't have enough respect for you to carry on a conversation, so your next reply will fall on deaf ears.

So his answers sound religious yet yours are along the lines of "it doesn't fit into my own personal perception of reality to think that a moving animal might not be able to feel excatly as I can feel since we are alive we must all obviously have the same brain chemical reactions related to conciousness"

😕

You are just imputing your version of reality which has no scientific background and accusing him of doing that to you. If anything, the religious dogma that is based on nothing more than perception and your ideals are more closely related than scientific explanation regarding this.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Alone

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Ban for trolling.

Either you should be banned for trolling, or if you're not trolling you should be banned for being so stupid as to compare jewish people to lobsters.

Way to come back with an argument to make me reconsider my opinion.

It's unfortunate that it takes an extreme comparison to help people understand, but that's not my fault.

http://frontpagemag.com/articl...437C-AF4A-B66C4C78BE9F

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jagec
Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

*facepalm* Really? Seriously? One would think that people would at least try to educate themselves before saying crap like this, if only to avoid the embarassment when someone points out that there are many
different kinds of nerves, some of which don't feel (sense) anything.

I taught a neurophysiology lab. I sawed horseshoe crab eyes out with a hacksaw. The little buggers didn't even care. They swim around happy as a clam even after both eyes are gone because the only thing the eyes do is help them find a mate (or a reasonably similar cement block, a tire, or anything of approximately that size). Neuroscientists are pretty sure that invertebrates don't feel pain because they simply lack the faculties that are used by vertebrates to feel pain.

WTF else did you expect it to do? Get a lawyer and sue for pain and suffering?

 

[finite automaton]

Originally posted by: Alone

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Hey, I just killed an ant hill with some Raid a minute ago. Thousands died. Do you want to hurt me now?

Nope. But then again I don't feel bad when people cook lobsters. I never said that I gave two shits whether or not an animal that tastes delicious feels pain. I was making the argument that just because they're inferior doesn't mean that we should ignore that fact.

Wait... So Jews are inferior now?

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jagec
Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

*facepalm* Really? Seriously? One would think that people would at least try to educate themselves before saying crap like this, if only to avoid the embarassment when someone points out that there are many
different kinds of nerves, some of which don't feel (sense) anything.

I taught a neurophysiology lab. I sawed horseshoe crab eyes out with a hacksaw. The little buggers didn't even care. They swim around happy as a clam even after both eyes are gone because the only thing the eyes do is help them find a mate (or a reasonably similar cement block, a tire, or anything of approximately that size). Neuroscientists are pretty sure that invertebrates don't feel pain because they simply lack the faculties that are used by vertebrates to feel pain.

WTF else did you expect it to do? Get a lawyer and sue for pain and suffering?

Question, What happens when you loose a finger, eye, or leg? Heck even if you dog, can or horse loose one? I'll tell you. The first thing, the FIRST thing you will do is grab the remaining appendage that hasn't been lopped off and try to protect it from future damage. In some cases, you will put a lot of pressure on it to try and stop the pain. (most animals will do this when they are in pain, they will first run from the cause, and second try and rub it against something)

So what does an animal do that doesn't feel pain? Nothing, why should it care? I think that is what CycloWizard is pointing out. You can tell when something you did hurts an animal because of the way they act. Especially when you have been around them for a while.

Barring that, umm, yeah, the whole "They don't have the nerves to feel pain" thing kind of blows any other argument to the contrary out of the water. It's like someone saying that dogs can see all the colors we can when we are pretty sure they can't because they lack the facilities in the eyes to do so (they do feel pain though 😛)

But yes, lets Bash CycloWizard, for bringing facts to prove his point. How dare he not speak out of pure emotional vigor!

 

[Insomniator]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Three words:
Bacon Wrapped Lobster.

 

[venkman]

I'm so confused. 😕

is this thread about delicious lobster or delicious jews?

how is it ever possible for those two to be confused?

 

[Regs]

BRB, my carrots are crying.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
If it's living then it knows life and death. I'm sure a lobster knows it's about to die and that's got to be painful either mentally or physically.

Next thread - "Does chopping down a tree cause it pain?"

😉

Next we will be offering therapy to abused electrons...


this continued pussification of america makes me want to beat the shit out of someone.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jagec
Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

*facepalm* Really? Seriously? One would think that people would at least try to educate themselves before saying crap like this, if only to avoid the embarassment when someone points out that there are many
different kinds of nerves, some of which don't feel (sense) anything.

I taught a neurophysiology lab. I sawed horseshoe crab eyes out with a hacksaw. The little buggers didn't even care. They swim around happy as a clam even after both eyes are gone because the only thing the eyes do is help them find a mate (or a reasonably similar cement block, a tire, or anything of approximately that size). Neuroscientists are pretty sure that invertebrates don't feel pain because they simply lack the faculties that are used by vertebrates to feel pain.

WTF else did you expect it to do? Get a lawyer and sue for pain and suffering?

Question, What happens when you loose a finger, eye, or leg? Heck even if you dog, can or horse loose one? I'll tell you. The first thing, the FIRST thing you will do is grab the remaining appendage that hasn't been lopped off and try to protect it from future damage. In some cases, you will put a lot of pressure on it to try and stop the pain. (most animals will do this when they are in pain, they will first run from the cause, and second try and rub it against something)

So what does an animal do that doesn't feel pain? Nothing, why should it care? I think that is what CycloWizard is pointing out. You can tell when something you did hurts an animal because of the way they act. Especially when you have been around them for a while.

Barring that, umm, yeah, the whole "They don't have the nerves to feel pain" thing kind of blows any other argument to the contrary out of the water. It's like someone saying that dogs can see all the colors we can when we are pretty sure they can't because they lack the facilities in the eyes to do so (they do feel pain though 😛)

But yes, lets Bash CycloWizard, for bringing facts to prove his point. How dare he not speak out of pure emotional vigor!

Except he didn't bring any facts. He said what happened after the cutting out the eyes. He didn't say what happens while he was cutting out the eyes.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jagec
Invertebrates have nerves too.😕

But no one cares about invertebrates.

I can't eat them anyway after I got food poisoning from undercooked lobster. Now the smell of them turns my stomach.


/edit: Your definition of "pain" is different than mine...IMHO certain nerves carrying "pain" signals to whatever passes for a brain counts as "pain", but it's not much of a moral issue if the "brain" lacks the higher functions to perceive it as more than just "unwanted conditions/avoid".

*facepalm* Really? Seriously? One would think that people would at least try to educate themselves before saying crap like this, if only to avoid the embarassment when someone points out that there are many
different kinds of nerves, some of which don't feel (sense) anything.

I taught a neurophysiology lab. I sawed horseshoe crab eyes out with a hacksaw. The little buggers didn't even care. They swim around happy as a clam even after both eyes are gone because the only thing the eyes do is help them find a mate (or a reasonably similar cement block, a tire, or anything of approximately that size). Neuroscientists are pretty sure that invertebrates don't feel pain because they simply lack the faculties that are used by vertebrates to feel pain.

WTF else did you expect it to do? Get a lawyer and sue for pain and suffering?

Question, What happens when you loose a finger, eye, or leg? Heck even if you dog, can or horse loose one? I'll tell you. The first thing, the FIRST thing you will do is grab the remaining appendage that hasn't been lopped off and try to protect it from future damage. In some cases, you will put a lot of pressure on it to try and stop the pain. (most animals will do this when they are in pain, they will first run from the cause, and second try and rub it against something)

So what does an animal do that doesn't feel pain? Nothing, why should it care? I think that is what CycloWizard is pointing out. You can tell when something you did hurts an animal because of the way they act. Especially when you have been around them for a while.

Barring that, umm, yeah, the whole "They don't have the nerves to feel pain" thing kind of blows any other argument to the contrary out of the water. It's like someone saying that dogs can see all the colors we can when we are pretty sure they can't because they lack the facilities in the eyes to do so (they do feel pain though 😛)

But yes, lets Bash CycloWizard, for bringing facts to prove his point. How dare he not speak out of pure emotional vigor!

Except he didn't bring any facts. He said what happened after the cutting out the eyes. He didn't say what happens while he was cutting out the eyes.

They ran around screaming, "THE PLANE TAKES OFF!!! DEAR GOD THE PLANE TAKES OFF!!!"

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Except he didn't bring any facts. He said what happened after the cutting out the eyes. He didn't say what happens while he was cutting out the eyes.

Their arms and tail make the same movements as they do if you touch anywhere along the temporal side of their shell. They do this because their brain (yes, they have a very simple brain) tells them that if something touches their shell on one side, it's probably a rock so they should turn the other direction so that they can avoid getting stuck.

 

[Vic]

I can't believe people argue over whether or not an aquatic insect that isn't even remotely sentient has the ability to feel pain...

Look, if you're that concerned, put it on ice for 15-20 minutes before steaming/boiling it. That's knocks it out (or more properly, slows its nervous system into a quasi-hibernation).