Does Russia(Putin) have a bigger plans.......Estonia

[JEDIYoda]

The problem as I see it is simple......to keep our word and attempt to protect the other countries that border Russia it would not be enough to just bomb the hell out of them...ground troops would be required........whose ground troops?

I think Putin realizes that he has the upper hand and eventually will take back all that WAS THE Old Soviet Union......Poland would be his last objective because I am not sure he really wants a fight....

We all know how the Ukrainian thing is going...

Here is the newest development...
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6110037/estonia-russia-officer-kidnapped

This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend Estonia

On Friday morning, less than 48 hours after President Obama delivered a speech in Estonia warning that Russian aggression against Estonia could trigger war with the US and NATO, Russian security forces have seized an officer with Estonia's state security bureau at gunpoint and taken him into Russia.

Estonia says the officer was kidnapped (or "abducted") on Estonian soil and taken across by force. Moscow says the Estonian officer was on Russian soil and detained with a gun, 5,000 euros and "materials that have the character of an intelligence mission." Nearby Estonian police radios were reportedly jammed during the incident.

The incident comes at a moment when Europe and the US are extremely concerned that Russia might attempt military action against Estonia as it has against Ukraine. Just on Wednesday, the United States publicly committed to Estonia's military defense, meaning that a Russian invasion of Estonia would trigger war between Russia and the US, a prospect so dangerous that the world managed to avoid it throughout even the Cold War.

"Unidentified persons coming from Russia took the freedom of an officer of Estonian Security police officer on the territory of Estonia," Estonia's state prosecutor's office announced, shortly before Russia claimed responsibility. "The officer was taken to Russia using physical force and at gunpoint."

The statement continues: "The officer was fulfilling his duties in connection to preventing a cross-border crime in taking place. The use of smoke grenades and intense interference with operative radio connections preceded the incident."

Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves tweeted almost immediately about the kidnapping, indicating that the government considers it a major incident. His government quickly summoned the Russian ambassador, and Estonia's interior minister said of the attack, "This kind of behavior is unacceptable."

 

[Genx87]

Russia is doing what we couldnt do in 20 years. Get Europe to fund more of their own defense. EU members just announced new defense targets.

That said Russia isnt exactly running over Ukrainian forces. It is a good assumption separatists forces have had Russian in their ranks for months. Yet it took an actual sizeable invasion force to push back Ukrainian forces. Estonia is off limits to Putin. The best he can hope for is Ukraine. Any attack against a NATO member will get his forces a nasty dose of reality.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Putin is a living & breathing example of a buffoon.

Now, I admit I initially underestimated the movement of Russia into the Ukraine. I viewed the Ukraine as an unstable region, that was brought peace by Russian forces,.. but, then they seemed to have left behind a bunch of morons,... who were armed with heavy weaponry,.. and then said idiots get shoved out of a burning building and then shoot down a commercial flight.

I was rooting for Russia, because I was frankly glad someone, other than the US, ran into a region to calm it and police it. That was all face value. Underneath and afterwards, they had a squad of goons.

So, yes, Putin is a ruthless, old school minded bastard. But, how and why old Vlad is made out to be a brilliant and dominating global presence, I will never know; he is a murderous pile of filth,.. nothing more.

 

[Anarchist420]

Putin is a conservative (he wants to restore the Old Order that was the Soviet Union, which is basically what "United Russia" is).

Romney would've been too conservative with Putin and both would've screwed everything up more. His efforts towards efficiency and security would've fucked everything up.

You know that Obama is smart as hell as he is seeing many, many the possibilities while being way too ideologically biased toward statism/keynesian econ policy. He understands a lot of ways to one up Putin but he doesnt want to pick one that wont lead to a little bit of everything. Putin will never be satisfied, Obama is too satisfied with himself; the latter is cute when he's not satsfied, Putin is usually irrational and angry. Putin only appears to defeat Obama because Obama plays around with him. Romney/Hillary Clinton and Putin fighting each other would crash the good world.

I dont see how Hillary Clinton wouldnt be like Romney (disastrous results from trying to have a little bit of everything, they cant stay with anything good). Rand Paul would've just gone Barry Goldwater on Putin but that wouldnt have been good for many people either ... even though nuking Russia would not result in much American life lost compared to what HC and Romney would've done ... Americans would find themselves isolated while surveillance would probably increase to keep their rulers powerful.

So I guess the the Neo-Republican/Wilsonian Empire will collapse. Legislated nationalism leads to loss of liberty everywhere.

 

[Atreus21]

http://news.yahoo.com/why-estonia-might-next-putin-093000225.html

President Obama last week reaffirmed the United States’ commitment to the security of Estonia, one of a handful of small former Soviet states bordering Russia that have joined the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Two days later, according to the Estonian government, Russian agents crossed the border, and using smoke grenades and radio jamming devices, kidnapped an officer of the country’s Internal Security Service.

The officer, Eston Kohver, appeared later that day in Moscow, where he was charged with spying and carrying an illegal handgun, according to the British Broadcasting Corporation. Russia claims that Kohver was arrested on Russian soil, but Estonian officials claim that not only is this untrue, but that Kohver appears to have walked into a trap set by Russia’s security service, the FSB.

The alleged kidnapping of Kohver has increased tensions among the independent states in Europe and Asia that were once part of the Soviet Union. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula this summer, and its ongoing support, including troops and weaponry, of rebels in Eastern Ukraine has many concerned that Russian President Vladimir Putin intends to reunite the former Soviet Union by force.

I wonder what happens if Putin tries to pull a Crimea in Estonia. There's a considerable Russian minority there, about 25%.

 

[cubby1223]

I wonder what happens if Putin tries to pull a Crimea in Estonia.

Germany says "Not my problem", Obama says "Getting involved doesn't poll well", and the entire NATO & EU allows it to happen.

 

[Atreus21]

Germany says "Not my problem", Obama says "Getting involved doesn't poll well", and the entire NATO & EU allows it to happen.

We'd better hope NATO doesn't allow it. Otherwise the whole treaty organization totters. What a feather that would be in Putin's cap.

What if the Soviet Union gets the last laugh after all?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Germany says "Not my problem", Obama says "Getting involved doesn't poll well", and the entire NATO & EU allows it to happen.

Estonia happens to be a full NATO member. Walk away and that's the end of NATO and the EU. Think that's going to happen?

 

[Atreus21]

Estonia happens to be a full NATO member. Walk away and that's the end of NATO and the EU. Think that's going to happen?

Like that sig.

 

[cubby1223]

Estonia happens to be a full NATO member. Walk away and that's the end of NATO and the EU. Think that's going to happen?

I know full well Estonia is a NATO member. The question is are the politicians of today willing to engage directly with Russia with military force over a minor border country? I don't believe the answer is a solid "yes".

And for the EU, that is already on thin ice as it is, I'd be surprised if they hold together for even another decade.

 

[gevorg]

FUD. Estonia has nothing to offer to Russia, just a small buffer state between NATO and Russia, in the age when tank armies are irrelevant.

 

[Jhhnn]

I know full well Estonia is a NATO member. The question is are the politicians of today willing to engage directly with Russia with military force over a minor border country? I don't believe the answer is a solid "yes".

And for the EU, that is already on thin ice as it is, I'd be surprised if they hold together for even another decade.

You presume that Putin would be willing to make that gamble, which seems unlikely.

Russia is far too busy with Ukraine to do anything so silly & likely will be for some time to come. Radicals from western Ukraine & complete disarray in Kiev gave Putin the opportunity to act, & he did. No parallel situation exists in Estonia. They have their shit together a lot better than Ukraine ever dreamed of.

 

[SandEagle]

Putin is a smart man. I trust he will do the right thing.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Putin is a smart man. I trust he will do the right thing.

What would be the right thing?

Regarding topic: NATO should put tactical nukes there ASAP. That's assuming they already don't have them already.

 

[Jhhnn]

What would be the right thing?

Regarding topic: NATO should put tactical nukes there ASAP. That's assuming they already don't have them already.

Just what the world needs- more Neocon chest thumping. What could go wrong?

 

[JEDIYoda]

already a thread...http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2398583
Here is the newest development...
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6110037/...icer-kidnapped

This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend Estonia

On Friday morning, less than 48 hours after President Obama delivered a speech in Estonia warning that Russian aggression against Estonia could trigger war with the US and NATO, Russian security forces have seized an officer with Estonia's state security bureau at gunpoint and taken him into Russia.

Estonia says the officer was kidnapped (or "abducted") on Estonian soil and taken across by force. Moscow says the Estonian officer was on Russian soil and detained with a gun, 5,000 euros and "materials that have the character of an intelligence mission." Nearby Estonian police radios were reportedly jammed during the incident.

etc...

 

[Karl Agathon]

Just what the world needs- more Neocon chest thumping. What could go wrong?

Right... because Putin isn't in the least belligerent or bellicose. Now if you're done your stereotyping because I made a comment about wanting Estonia to be able to have a NATO nuclear deterrent.

From what I understand (and someone with more knowledge of NATO can clarify) NATO still has nuclear weapons remaining in at least some member nations due to treaty obligations. Not sure if Estonia is one of them though.

 

[Jhhnn]

already a thread...http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2398583
Here is the newest development...
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6110037/...icer-kidnapped

This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend Estonia

On Friday morning, less than 48 hours after President Obama delivered a speech in Estonia warning that Russian aggression against Estonia could trigger war with the US and NATO, Russian security forces have seized an officer with Estonia's state security bureau at gunpoint and taken him into Russia.

Estonia says the officer was kidnapped (or "abducted") on Estonian soil and taken across by force. Moscow says the Estonian officer was on Russian soil and detained with a gun, 5,000 euros and "materials that have the character of an intelligence mission." Nearby Estonian police radios were reportedly jammed during the incident.

etc...

Meh. Minor kerfuffle blown out of proportion by the usual fear mongers.

He said/ she said & nobody knows the truth.

 

[rudder]

We'd better hope NATO doesn't allow it. Otherwise the whole treaty organization totters. What a feather that would be in Putin's cap.

What if the Soviet Union gets the last laugh after all?

 

[IronWing]

Bullshit doesn't help the thread. Reagan did not destroy the Soviet Union and so far it hasn't come back.

 

[Victorian Gray]

(Leaving aside the laughable claim about Reagan) Russia just declared itself a Soviet Socialist Republic, reconquered all it's former territory and re formed the Eastern Bloc with it's former client states again?

Wow!

 

[Jhhnn]

Right... because Putin isn't in the least belligerent or bellicose. Now if you're done your over the top stereotyping. Just because I made a comment about wanting Estonia to be able to have a NATO nuclear deterrent.

From what I understand (and someone with more knowledge of NATO can clarify) NATO still has nuclear weapons remaining in at least some member nations due to treaty obligations. Not sure if Estonia is one of them though.

Putin is focused on Ukraine, and, in case you hadn't noticed, he's winning, letting "separatists" do the fighting on a limited scale. The Russian military could crush Ukraine like a bug if he set them to it, dictate terms of territorial secession afterwards.

He's not stupid enough to invade the Baltics & invite catastrophe. This border intelligence incident is not indicative of any desire to invade.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Bump

 

[K1052]

If the craziest of the crazy Soviets weren't generally willing to gamble that NATO wouldn't honor article V I'm skeptical Putin would. There is very little to gain and a whole lot to loose for him. The EU and US could in short order smash the entire Russian economy if the political will materialized to do so and embarrass the Russian military in defeat since they would be a real opponent instead of the mostly impotent states they've attacked so far.

 

[Brainonska511]

(Leaving aside the laughable claim about Reagan) Russia just declared itself a Soviet Socialist Republic, reconquered all it's former territory and reformed the Eastern Bloc with it's former client states again?

Wow!