Does "Right Turn Signal" imply "No right turn on red"?

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
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Right next to campus, there's this one traffic light that insists on *ALWAYS* being red (because it's on a 10min cycle). It has a sign marking the "Right turn signal" but no sign saying "No turn on red." I have to make a right turn. Roughly 90% of the people that come up to that light will make a right turn on red, myself included. However, 10% of them will sit there and wait for it to cycle through to allow a right turn for a whole 3-4 seconds (it doesn't even allow a right turn when the appropriate lane is explicitly allowed a left turn)

What does the ATOT traffic council think?
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
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Furthermore, are there any DOT regulations that prevent a township from using what appear to be pink/orange/teal traffic lights as opposed to red/yellow/green? Because those things really make me angry whenever I drive through Dover, PA (yes, the "Intelligent Design" Dover, PA)
 

jumpr

Golden Member
Jan 2, 2006
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There's a right turn signal near my house (it's one of those 5-light things with a red on top, and then two columns of lights under it). Right turns on red ARE allowed at the light and I make one all the time. I've never gotten any attention from the cops for doing so.
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
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Signs generally don't "imply" things...they read what they read. The sign is an indication of what that specific light is. If it's a light where there are other lights or multiple lanes, it generally has that sign to let you know which light to watch and go on.
 

jumpr

Golden Member
Jan 2, 2006
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Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Furthermore, are there any DOT regulations that prevent a township from using what appear to be pink/orange/teal traffic lights as opposed to red/yellow/green?
Uh, I'd say so. Hang on, I'll look for the statute.

EDIT: From the Maryland State Code:

§ 21-202. Traffic lights with steady indication.

(a) In general.-

(1) Except for special pedestrian signals that carry a legend, where traffic is controlled by traffic control signals that show different colored lights or colored lighted arrows, whether successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red, and yellow may be used.

(2) These lights apply to drivers and pedestrians as provided in this section.

(b) Green indication.- Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed straight through or, unless a sign at the place prohibits the turn, turn right or left.

(c) Yielding right-of-way to vehicles or pedestrians within intersections or crosswalks.- Vehicular traffic described under subsection (b) of this section, including any vehicle turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to any other vehicle and any pedestrian lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk when the signal is shown.

(d) Entering intersection on green arrow.- Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, whether shown alone or with another indication, cautiously may enter the intersection, but only to make the movement indicated by the arrow or to make another movement permitted by other indications shown at the same time.

(e) Yielding right-of-way to certain pedestrians and other traffic.- Vehicular traffic described under subsection (d) of this section shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

(f) When pedestrians may cross roadways.- Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in § 21-203 of this subtitle, a pedestrian facing any green signal, unless the green signal is only a turn arrow, may cross the roadway, within any marked or unmarked crosswalk, in the direction of the green signal.

(g) Steady yellow indication.-

(1) Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is warned that the related green movement is ending or that a red signal, which will prohibit vehicular traffic from entering the intersection, will be shown immediately after the yellow signal.

(2) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in § 21-203 of this subtitle, a pedestrian facing a steady yellow signal is warned that there is not enough time to cross the roadway before a red signal is shown, and a pedestrian may not then start to cross the roadway.

(h) Steady red indication - In general.-

(1) Vehicular traffic facing a steady circular red signal alone:

(i) Shall stop at the near side of the intersection:

1. At a clearly marked stop line;

2. If there is no clearly marked stop line, before entering any crosswalk; or

3. If there is no crosswalk, before entering the intersection; and

(ii) Except as provided in subsections (i), (j), and (k) of this section, shall remain stopped until a signal to proceed is shown.

(2) Vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow signal:

(i) May not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow;

(ii) Unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at the near side of the intersection:

1. At a clearly marked stop line;

2. If there is no clearly marked stop line, before entering any crosswalk; or

3. If there is no crosswalk, before entering the intersection; and

(iii) Except as provided in subsections (i), (j), and (k) of this section, shall remain stopped until a signal permitting the movement is shown.

(i) Same - Entering intersection for right turn or for left turn from one-way street onto one-way street.- Unless a sign prohibiting a turn is in place, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal, after stopping as required by subsection (h) of this section, cautiously may enter the intersection and make:

(1) A right turn; or

(2) A left turn from a one-way street onto a one-way street.

(j) Same - Entering intersection to make turn indicated by sign.- If a sign permitting any other turn is in place, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal, after stopping as required by subsection (h) of this section, cautiously may enter the intersection and make the turn indicated by the sign.

(k) Same - Yielding right-of-way to certain pedestrians.- In each instance, vehicular traffic described in subsections (i) and (j) of this section shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard.

(l) Same - Pedestrians prohibited from entering roadway.- Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in § 21-203 of this subtitle, pedestrians facing a steady red signal alone may not enter the roadway.

(m) Applicability of section.- Except for those provisions of this section that by their very nature cannot apply, this section applies to a traffic control signal placed at a location other than an intersection. Each stop required by the signal shall be made at a sign or marking on the pavement indicating where the stop shall be made or, if there is no sign or marking, at the signal.

[An. Code 1957, art. 661/2, § 11-202; 1977, ch. 14, § 2; ch. 447; 1986, ch. 410; ch. 472, § 1; 1993, ch. 278; 1997, chs. 45, 315; 1998, ch. 360; 1999, ch. 401, § 2; 2004, ch. 320.]
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
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In California it means no turn on red, but different states have different laws. But in California you would be ticketed for running a red light.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
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Originally posted by: DVK916
In California it means no turn on red, but different states have different laws. But in California you would be ticketed for running a red light.

I thank God that Pennsylvania's roads are so bad that it's impossible to park a cop car anywhere near a traffic light.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
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Originally posted by: jumpr
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Furthermore, are there any DOT regulations that prevent a township from using what appear to be pink/orange/teal traffic lights as opposed to red/yellow/green?
Uh, I'd say so. Hang on, I'll look for the statute.

EDIT: From the Maryland State Code:


Sadly, the light is in PA. So COMAR doesn't do much to help my cause to un-gay Dover.
 

DaiShan

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2001
9,617
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Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
There wouldn't be the right turn light if you could right turn on red.

Wrong (at least in Florida) You can make a right turn on any red light provided that there is not a sign that says otherwise. The right turn arrow is simply there to tell you that traffic traveling in the direction that you wish to turn has a green light.
 

boggsie

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2000
2,326
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Burnout in the middle of the intersection.

Wait on LEO to respond.

Ask your question.
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
In Maryland, the only time you cannot turn right on red is when there is a sign saying "No Turn on Red". A right turn arrow is not a sign saying "No turn on red".

Edit- didn't see the "in PA" post.
 

Bahamut1701

Junior Member
Feb 11, 2006
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Originally posted by: DVK916
In California it means no turn on red, but different states have different laws. But in California you would be ticketed for running a red light.

No...

I think what it means is that there is a right turn signal (ie green arrow) but you can still turn right on a red light. The only time you can't is if there is a RED RIGHT arrow. Least that's how it works here.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
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a right turn signal is just a method of telling you that you have the right-away to turn. versus no turn signal, which means that other traffic has the right away and you have to wait for them to pass and for a chance to open up to turn.

edit:
same thing when theres a green left turn arrow, and a seperate green light, or even red. i've seen both I think. if its green and no turn signal, it means the oncoming traffic has the right away, but you can go when there is a chance. green with a green arrow means you have the right away. i think i've seen a red light and a green left turn arrow, that means you have the right away to turn, but like traffic next to you cant progress normally, just the two opposite sides can both turn. something like that. i may be wrong on the red light and green turn arrow though.. i may be lying out of me a$$, can't really remember.
 

ShadowBlade

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2005
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camp out there for a week or so, you should see a cop, see what he does and keep photographic or video evidence so if you ever are given a ticket for turning on red there, you can say "i was following the example of this cop"
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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If there is a separate set of lights that are marked "Right turn signal" and that is red, I'd say you can't turn right when that signal is red.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
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Turn right on red. Signs do not imply anything. I once had read an article about someone who was ticketted for illegal parking, and got out of it because the sign said "No Stoping" instead of "No Stopping".
 

Ricochet

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
6,390
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For me, it's a difference of going on turning right without stopping (green light) vs. coming to a full stop/yielding then proceed on through (red light).
 

HomerSapien

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2000
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Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
There wouldn't be the right turn light if you could right turn on red.

I got ticketed at a right turn light(green arrow) with a no turn on red sign. I was a bit confused and the cop said i needed to follow the signs, as did the judge.

Needless to say, i sent a dozen or so letters with pictures telling them to take down one or the other as it is confusing and nothing has happened.