Does my 3570k need too much voltage?

[miketen587]

First time overclocker here....been working at it for a couple days now and I have come to the conclusion that either:

A.) I'm doing something wrong
B.) My chip is a dud of an OCer

I need 1.335v to stay stable at 4.4Ghz. Temps are fine at 30-35 idle, 80-82 under full load.

My mobo is a P8z77-V LX

Now judging from the research I've done, 1.335v is perfectly safe...just high for my clock speed. If my chip is just a bad OCer, I can except that. But I want to be absolutely sure I have my settings correct before I resign myself to that fact.

I'm using the settings and Prime95 Custom Test Options suggested in this guide: http://www.overclock.net/t/1198504/...-guide-sandy-bridge-ivy-bridge-asrock-edition

I've attached my Bios pics for you guys to take a look at and offer any advice you might have

 

[Rvenger]

It could be that your board can't hold a stable vcore and it fluctuates under load. To test a stable overclock, disable LLC,manually set a fixed voltage, and disable Cstates and EIST. You should be at no more than 1.25v for 4.4ghz.

 

[miketen587]

Cstates and EIST are already disabled. I'll try disabling LLC and see what happens.

 

[Yuriman]

I overclock without LLC. At 4.4ghz, with all 4 cores loaded, I need around 1.200v (+/- .008) to get stable. However, when I only load 1 core, my voltage is around 1.250 because of vdroop.

There are a few factors which may affect your ability to get stable without a high voltage.

One of them is temperature - a better cooler might allow you to drop your voltage, which in turn would also cool the chip further.

Internal PLL overvoltage is also needed on some chips, though mine doesn't benefit from it being enabled - it's something to play with and see if it works for you.

EDIT: It's probably ok to enable speedstep and C1E, but the other c-states should be disabled if you're using offset voltage.

What is your voltage under load in Windows?

You might want to try Windows-based overclocking for fine-tuning your vcore, and then lock it down in bios once you find a voltage you're comfortable with. This is a guide I often post for people:

I recommend you try the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility for your first overclock. You don't need to reboot when changing multipliers/voltages, and it works a LOT better than the software included by motherboard manufacturers.

Start with everything default in bios.

First you need to go into bios and change vcore to offset mode, but don't change the voltage (I set mine to +.005v because +0v wasn't available). This is important - as with my system, leaving voltage on "auto" results in me needing much higher voltages to get stable. In power saving features, disable C3/C6 and Package C states, but make sure you leave C1E enabled. Basically everything else can be left at default.

Once in windows, load up the Intel utility and max out the Turbo Boost Power Max and Core Current Limit, like so:

This basically turns off TDP limitations (your chip is rated at 77w TDP but you want to be able to draw more power than that when overclocked).

To overclock, drag the multiplier sliders up and hit apply. Do not play with the reference clock, only multipliers. You'll probably want to go up 1x at a time and run Prime95 or IBT to test for errors. When you reach a threshold where you're no longer stable, you can either increase the voltage, or drop your multiplier back down.

The max safe voltage for day-to-day usage is arguably about 1.3v, which on my board is about +132mv. I can get up to around 4.6ghz on my chip without going over 1.3v but your mileage may vary.

 

[miketen587]

I can't even boot into windows at 1.25v

My voltage under load is anywhere from 1.27 to 1.29 under load according to CPUZ....Which I don't understand since I have it set to a fixed 1.335 and I'm not using any offsets. This is without LLC as I just turned it off.

My cooler is a 212 evo so it's not like I'm running on the stock cooler either....

 

[Yuriman]

I can't even boot into windows at 1.25v

My voltage under load is anywhere from 1.27 to 1.29 under load according to CPUZ....Which I don't understand since I have it set to a fixed 1.335 and I'm not using any offsets. This is without LLC as I just turned it off.

My cooler is a 212 evo so it's not like I'm running on the stock cooler either....

Using fixed 1.335, the CPU requests 1.335 but it actually gets another voltage due to vdroop. This is normal and Intel intended it to be this way. LLC attempts to compensate for this droop but it's not a perfect system, and there's argument as to whether or not you should use it when overclocking. I fall into the camp that prefers to overclock without LLC but you can get the same overclock with or without it, it's just a matter of having to select a different voltage in bios to get the voltage you really want.

-----

Try out the Intel utility I linked, follow the instructions exactly and see what you can get.

It wouldn't be impossible for your CPU to need more voltage to hit the same clocks as mine, but it does seem like it's a little below average.

 

[miketen587]

Using fixed 1.335, the CPU requests 1.335 but it actually gets another voltage due to vdroop. This is normal and Intel intended it to be this way. LLC attempts to compensate for this droop but it's not a perfect system, and there's argument as to whether or not you should use it when overclocking. I fall into the camp that prefers to overclock without LLC but you can get the same overclock with or without it, it's just a matter of having to select a different voltage in bios to get the voltage you really want.

-----

Try out the Intel utility I linked, follow the instructions exactly and see what you can get.

It wouldn't be impossible for your CPU to need more voltage to hit the same clocks as mine, but it does seem like it's a little below average.

I'll try it out. Thanks.

 

[tweakboy]

I did a pencil voltmod on my pos mobo Whatever it says in BIOS it shows in Windows... 0 vdrop. Most modern mobo should have option to make it not drop. My board had it but not good enough.

I used to be fixed @ 1.456v until the mobo died. This used one doesn't allow you to touch any voltage or OC setting except for FSB,,, and it auto volt. goes up as I take up FSB ehheh,, sighs,,

 

[miketen587]

I overclock without LLC. At 4.4ghz, with all 4 cores loaded, I need around 1.200v (+/- .008) to get stable. However, when I only load 1 core, my voltage is around 1.250 because of vdroop.

There are a few factors which may affect your ability to get stable without a high voltage.

One of them is temperature - a better cooler might allow you to drop your voltage, which in turn would also cool the chip further.

Internal PLL overvoltage is also needed on some chips, though mine doesn't benefit from it being enabled - it's something to play with and see if it works for you.

EDIT: It's probably ok to enable speedstep and C1E, but the other c-states should be disabled if you're using offset voltage.

What is your voltage under load in Windows?

You might want to try Windows-based overclocking for fine-tuning your vcore, and then lock it down in bios once you find a voltage you're comfortable with. This is a guide I often post for people:

Any idea why my Core Current Limit isn't showing up, and my Turbo Boost Power Max is greyed out?

 

[Ed1]

Any idea why my Core Current Limit isn't showing up, and my Turbo Boost Power Max is greyed out?

maybe because you set values to the turbo power settings , pic 3.

Try setting internal PLL overvoltage to auto ,

Set cpu current capability to like 130-140% ,pic4
cpu power phase standard>optimize (or whatever next set up is ) pic4

To use Intel tool you probably have to set defaults for values it edits , but that's just a guess , have never used it .

 

[miketen587]

maybe because you set values to the turbo power settings , pic 3.

Try setting internal PLL overvoltage to auto ,

Set cpu current capability to like 130-140% ,pic4
cpu power phase standard>optimize (or whatever next set up is ) pic4

To use Intel tool you probably have to set defaults for values it edits , but that's just a guess , have never used it .

I loaded the defaults on my bios, and put cpu current capability to 120% which was the max, and still nothing...hmmm

 

[Yuriman]

I think Ed1 is right. If you've raised those values in bios it shouldn't matter though.

If you don't raise the current limit, all that will happen is, when overclocking you will eventually reach your current limit and your chip wont go any faster.

For example (and I'm making up these values):
For current = 90A
41x = 4100mhz
42x = 4200mhz
43x = 4300mhz
44x = 4300mhz
45x = 4300mhz

^ Because you've hit the current ceiling.

 

[miketen587]

I think Ed1 is right. If you've raised those values in bios it shouldn't matter though.

If you don't raise the current limit, all that will happen is, when overclocking you will eventually reach your current limit and your chip wont go any faster.

For example (and I'm making up these values):
For current = 90A
41x = 4100mhz
42x = 4200mhz
43x = 4300mhz
44x = 4300mhz
45x = 4300mhz

^ Because you've hit the current ceiling.

Ok. Now when you say to raise the voltage once I reach instability, are you saying to raise the voltage in the bios or through the program?

 

[Yuriman]

In the program. For instance, I'll be Prime'ing 4.4ghz and Prime will throw an error, so I open the Intel Utility and move the voltage slider up one notch, hit apply, and keep Prime'ing. It takes effect instantly.

I have a favorite emulator (Dolphin) that's very sensitive to instability, it tends to crash much more quickly than even Prime does. If it crashes, I raise the voltage.

 

[miketen587]

I'm just not having any luck getting stable much below 1.3v...

While 1.335v is definitely a bit high for my clock speed, its not an unsafe amount of voltage correct?

 

[Yuriman]

I've been using a rule of thumb that around 1.3v *under full load* is as high as I want it on a day to day basis. If it's 1.335v at partial load (when temperatures are low) I figure that's probably fine. Vdroop will probably bring you to around that number so I would say you're ok.

 

[Ed1]

I've been using a rule of thumb that around 1.3v *under full load* is as high as I want it on a day to day basis. If it's 1.335v at partial load (when temperatures are low) I figure that's probably fine. Vdroop will probably bring you to around that number so I would say you're ok.

That looks like a good value from what I have read around seems there sweet spot around 1.2x -1.3 were temps don't go sky high .

I think it also depends on what you expect from OC and day to day use .
Me personally I rather run more conservative OC and keep vcore/heat down , back off 100 clocks or so, its really not going to make that much difference but if your into benchmarks and don't care if you need to load OS if it craps out in 6 months then go for gold ;-).

There a guy from Asus that showcased ivy bridge features and how OC and he basically also says 1.3-1.35v is good max point for air/water . I try an find it, think it was at newegg .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkGQhE1o2w&feature=share&list=PL666DE0A3B6BB5628

 

[miketen587]

I've been using a rule of thumb that around 1.3v *under full load* is as high as I want it on a day to day basis. If it's 1.335v at partial load (when temperatures are low) I figure that's probably fine. Vdroop will probably bring you to around that number so I would say you're ok.

I've noticed that under full load the fixed 1.335v actually drops to 1.32 for a majority of the time (thats with the settings I posted pictures of) with temps not going higher than 85c

When I'm idile Vcore usually sits right at 1.335 with temps at 30-35c

Gaming I'm usually at 1.32 - 1.335 and temps usually never go over 55c

 

[Ed1]

I've noticed that under full load the fixed 1.335v actually drops to 1.32 for a majority of the time (thats with the settings I posted pictures of) with temps not going higher than 85c

When I'm idile Vcore usually sits right at 1.335 with temps at 30-35c

Gaming I'm usually at 1.32 - 1.335 and temps usually never go over 55c

you could try off-set method instead of fixed vcore and temps would go down .

check out the vid I posted above even if you don't have Asus MB, the info is still very valid .

 

[miketen587]

you could try off-set method instead of fixed vcore and temps would go down .

check out the vid I posted above even if you don't have Asus MB, the info is still very valid .

Based on my fixed Vcore needing 1.32 - 1.335 to stay stable, what would you suggest for an offset?

Also, would you change any bios settings from the defaults while using an offset?

I had ran across that video in the past...and judging from what I see in it, my 1.335v really isn't too bad.

 

[Yuriman]

Speedstep and C1E should be enabled with offset, C3 C6 and Package C States should be disabled.

I would estimate you'll need roughly +150mv offset to get that voltage but it varies from system to system.

 

[Ed1]

Based on my fixed Vcore needing 1.32 - 1.335 to stay stable, what would you suggest for an offset?

Also, would you change any bios settings from the defaults while using an offset?

I had ran across that video in the past...and judging from what I see in it, my 1.335v really isn't too bad.

right ,as long as temps are not to bad that vcore is reasonable . On the offset I really don't know cause it depends on so many variables as it changes as you go up with multiplier.

But since you do have good target vcore now 1.32-1.335 , I guess what you would need to do is start at low multiplier (so it loads an stable) and add some offset , then bump the multiplier up, check voltages , an adjust, then bump again till you are at what you have with fixed . then at lower clocks she be cooler .

I would maybe set LLC at mid way but your going to be adjusting offset to what you want so it should be ok .

 

[Rvenger]

Mike-

I hate to say it but I think you should back down to 4.2ghz and lower your vcore. Enable EIST and LLC and keep Cstates disabled. Lower PLL to 1.69v and call it a day.

It sounds like you have a chip that requests a high vcore so it would be best to get below 1.3v for 24/7 use. I wouldn't be surprised if you had WHEA warnings in the event viewer at 4.4ghz.

 

[Yuriman]

Mike-

I hate to say it but I think you should back down to 4.2ghz and lower your vcore. Enable EIST and LLC and keep Cstates disabled. Lower PLL to 1.69v and call it a day.

It sounds like you have a chip that requests a high vcore so it would be best to get below 1.3v for 24/7 use. I wouldn't be surprised if you had WHEA warnings in the event viewer at 4.4ghz.

Leave C1E enabled, the others can do.

Lowering PLL voltage is something a lot of Ivy Bridge owners do to cut down on the heat a little, and I've read that high PLL voltage will kill a chip faster than any other voltage increase, so it makes sense to me that lowering it might have a good effect on lengthening its lifespan. I run my chip at 1.58v PLL, which is the lowest I can select in bios.

 

[miketen587]

Mike-

I hate to say it but I think you should back down to 4.2ghz and lower your vcore. Enable EIST and LLC and keep Cstates disabled. Lower PLL to 1.69v and call it a day.

It sounds like you have a chip that requests a high vcore so it would be best to get below 1.3v for 24/7 use. I wouldn't be surprised if you had WHEA warnings in the event viewer at 4.4ghz.

Appreciate the advice, I think I'm going to do exactly that. 200Mhz isn't worth the extra Vcore.

What would you suggest my LLC be set at? I'm guessing High or Ultra High?