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Does Listening to Rap Put Teens at Risk?
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loosliptcomptrola
Senior member
Originally posted by: stormbv
That's kind of insulting, in a way. Yes, whoever listens to rap music is so weak-willed that they are that easily brainwashed, their self esteem just melts away with every video!.
I don't think that it is just rap but commercialized music in general. I actually listen to hip hop and there are some really good groups that are trying to be real and talk about real issues not just about gettin hoes and gakin fo's up an down tha mo fvckin avenoe...
Amused
Elite Member
I only have this to say:
If the power of suggestion in music and videos has no effect on people, I guess all these companies from food to kids toys are wasting millions on advertising.
Advertisements sell an image. Music videos do the same. To say one has an effect, and the other does not is to talk out of both sides of one's mouth.
Or why is it that we've banned Tobacco ads and Joe Camel?
Look, I'm all for freedom of speech and I'm against any bans on advertising, much less music or videos. My point is the very people who deny there is any effect on people from music and videos are most often the same poeple who claim the cigarette companies are advertising to kids, and tobacco and alcohol ads must be banned.
All I ask is that this double standard be stopped.
If the power of suggestion in music and videos has no effect on people, I guess all these companies from food to kids toys are wasting millions on advertising.
Advertisements sell an image. Music videos do the same. To say one has an effect, and the other does not is to talk out of both sides of one's mouth.
Or why is it that we've banned Tobacco ads and Joe Camel?
Look, I'm all for freedom of speech and I'm against any bans on advertising, much less music or videos. My point is the very people who deny there is any effect on people from music and videos are most often the same poeple who claim the cigarette companies are advertising to kids, and tobacco and alcohol ads must be banned.
All I ask is that this double standard be stopped.
thawolfman
Lifer
No, being dumbasses puts teens at risk...😛
AreaCode707
Lifer
Correlation does not equal causation, as my comm teacher keeps trying to pound into everyone's heads.
If they found a correlation, they found a correlation. There could be a third variable causing both. You notice they make no claims that one causes the other; the article just infers that. The study wouldn't even go so far as to infer, I bet.
If they found a correlation, they found a correlation. There could be a third variable causing both. You notice they make no claims that one causes the other; the article just infers that. The study wouldn't even go so far as to infer, I bet.
Amused,
I agree with your last post, but I think it reenforces bad behavior, makes it seems normal, in kids who are predisposed to do so. I don't think that RAP actually causes kids to go bad.
I also don't think it's mainly bad schools, bad parents, or the other usual suspects. I think these things can contribute, but the root problem comes from inside the particular person.
I agree with your last post, but I think it reenforces bad behavior, makes it seems normal, in kids who are predisposed to do so. I don't think that RAP actually causes kids to go bad.
I also don't think it's mainly bad schools, bad parents, or the other usual suspects. I think these things can contribute, but the root problem comes from inside the particular person.
I wont go as far as to say it has no effect. But it wont make nice kids into gangstas, although it might reinforce such behavior.
I was drawn to hip hop back in the day cause I was broke and lived in a shitty neighborhood, and I could relate what they were saying. If I were to get arrested from stealing candy from the candy store, which almost happened, it was cause I was a kid that couldnt afford candy, not because the rappers rotted my brain. Listening to rap didnt want to make me go out and rob the store, it only told me that I wasnt the only kid longing for candy so bad and he couldnt have it, so he had to steal it.
I'm not saying everyone should go out and rob the store, but rap was a reflection for most people if anything. There were kids that took it too far and thought it was cool to be a retard, but all of us knew who they were and what a bunch of fools they were. I can tell you that those kids were the vast vast minority of kids that listened to rap, maybe 5 percent.
What I'm trying to say is that it isnt just one way. If you drink, smoke weed and live in the ghetto, you are going to want to listen to music that reflects that.
How so? Both are based on images and ideas. Hell, most commercials these days are hardly any different from music videos. The only difference is the placement of a single product.
But you know what, kids dont go off and say "yo, did you see that new joe camel commercial? That sh*t is hot!" Commercials are made to make you buy something. Rap music was made for an entirely different reason, at least it used to be, and that is where the difference is. You listened to rap cause you wanted to, commercials were and always will be a nuisance.
I was drawn to hip hop back in the day cause I was broke and lived in a shitty neighborhood, and I could relate what they were saying. If I were to get arrested from stealing candy from the candy store, which almost happened, it was cause I was a kid that couldnt afford candy, not because the rappers rotted my brain. Listening to rap didnt want to make me go out and rob the store, it only told me that I wasnt the only kid longing for candy so bad and he couldnt have it, so he had to steal it.
I'm not saying everyone should go out and rob the store, but rap was a reflection for most people if anything. There were kids that took it too far and thought it was cool to be a retard, but all of us knew who they were and what a bunch of fools they were. I can tell you that those kids were the vast vast minority of kids that listened to rap, maybe 5 percent.
What I'm trying to say is that it isnt just one way. If you drink, smoke weed and live in the ghetto, you are going to want to listen to music that reflects that.
How so? Both are based on images and ideas. Hell, most commercials these days are hardly any different from music videos. The only difference is the placement of a single product.
But you know what, kids dont go off and say "yo, did you see that new joe camel commercial? That sh*t is hot!" Commercials are made to make you buy something. Rap music was made for an entirely different reason, at least it used to be, and that is where the difference is. You listened to rap cause you wanted to, commercials were and always will be a nuisance.
Amused
Elite Member
Then product advertising only reenforces the already existing will to buy that product? BS. If you see something you think is cool, you want to emulate that. In advertising, the way to emulate that is to buy the product so you can be cool/hip/classy like the folks in the commercial. That's what product advertising plays on, and to say there is any different effect from videos and music is to deny reality.
They are selling ideas, just like the "The More You Know" public ads on NBC or some other such crap. People will emulate what they see as "cool." If in a culture, gangsta rap is "cool," a signifigant number of kids will emulate what they see the rapper's doing and saying. JUST as they emulate what they see in commercials and buy the products.
Amused
Elite Member
That's weak. What is the difference between connecting a product to an image, or behavior to an image? NONE. In fact, connecting a behavior to an image is easier and cheaper to follow than having to buy the product to obtain the image.
Again, if commercials connecting a product to an image have an effect, ANY media connecting behavior to an image will have an effect.
Then product advertising only reenforces the already existing will to buy that product? BS. If you see something you think is cool, you want to emulate that. In advertising, the way to emulate that is to buy the product so you can be cool/hip/classy like the folks in the commercial. That's what product advertising plays on, and to say there is any different effect from videos and music is to deny reality.
They are selling ideas, just like the "The More You Know" public ads on NBC or some other such crap. People will emulate what they see as "cool." If in a culture, gangsta rap is "cool," a signifigant number of kids will emulate what they see the rapper's doing and saying. JUST as they emulate what they see in commercials and buy the products.[/quote]
But you can take what youre saying as far as you want. Cigarette commercials reinforce bad behavior, and so do rap music. Ok, so does everything else! You see something in person that you think is cool you are going to emulate it too. So should be doing anything that can be interpreted as destructive and therefore influencing others be banned as well?
The difference is that commercials have only ONE sole purpose, and that is to get you to buy their product. Music videos is an expression of art, trying to get you to buy something as well.
Comparing music videos to cigarettes is ridiculous. You should be comparing the way someone feels when they smoke a stoge, not the commercials.
I am going to tell you straight out, that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You only read about rap making kids evil, and believe it so. Well let me let you in on reality, because I saw it with my own eyes as I was growing up. The kids that were gangsta, were that way because they were like that from the start. They were evil and dicks to begin with, and even if music did not exist on the planet, they would be just the same. I have never met a nice clean cut kid that all of a suddent started listening to rap and next thing you knew he was out on the street shooting people. It just DOESNT HAPPEN.
Kids that were getting arrested were the kids that were getting arrested from day one, and we all knew who they were going to be by 2nd grade. It was that obvious. Same with the girls that were going to get pregnant, and the kids that were going to abuse drugs.
All rap music did was spawn a bunch of fake wannabe kids that pretended to do the things that they heard, but in reality were just faking it. If you kid is listening to rap music and shooting people, and you think rap music is the problem, you need to get your ass in front of a mirror. And those kids are such a minority, so few and far between, and they get over it in a few years, that its negligible.
Because rap music, cant, WONT, will NEVER make anyone into a monster if they were not already one to begin with. So much of it is just a reflection of the reality that these kids are living in, and if you cant understand that, then you will never ever get it.
They are selling ideas, just like the "The More You Know" public ads on NBC or some other such crap. People will emulate what they see as "cool." If in a culture, gangsta rap is "cool," a signifigant number of kids will emulate what they see the rapper's doing and saying. JUST as they emulate what they see in commercials and buy the products.[/quote]
But you can take what youre saying as far as you want. Cigarette commercials reinforce bad behavior, and so do rap music. Ok, so does everything else! You see something in person that you think is cool you are going to emulate it too. So should be doing anything that can be interpreted as destructive and therefore influencing others be banned as well?
The difference is that commercials have only ONE sole purpose, and that is to get you to buy their product. Music videos is an expression of art, trying to get you to buy something as well.
Comparing music videos to cigarettes is ridiculous. You should be comparing the way someone feels when they smoke a stoge, not the commercials.
I am going to tell you straight out, that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You only read about rap making kids evil, and believe it so. Well let me let you in on reality, because I saw it with my own eyes as I was growing up. The kids that were gangsta, were that way because they were like that from the start. They were evil and dicks to begin with, and even if music did not exist on the planet, they would be just the same. I have never met a nice clean cut kid that all of a suddent started listening to rap and next thing you knew he was out on the street shooting people. It just DOESNT HAPPEN.
Kids that were getting arrested were the kids that were getting arrested from day one, and we all knew who they were going to be by 2nd grade. It was that obvious. Same with the girls that were going to get pregnant, and the kids that were going to abuse drugs.
All rap music did was spawn a bunch of fake wannabe kids that pretended to do the things that they heard, but in reality were just faking it. If you kid is listening to rap music and shooting people, and you think rap music is the problem, you need to get your ass in front of a mirror. And those kids are such a minority, so few and far between, and they get over it in a few years, that its negligible.
Because rap music, cant, WONT, will NEVER make anyone into a monster if they were not already one to begin with. So much of it is just a reflection of the reality that these kids are living in, and if you cant understand that, then you will never ever get it.
I'd have to agree, as in my experience, those observations apply to all genres of music. However, I don't care for rap music (no flames, please, it's just a personal preference, and I won't flame you for your preferences in music), so anything I would say about that in particular would be based on an extremely limited selection.
Of course, my parents are the typical independent baptists in that they are very picky about what they "let" me listen to (they can't stop a kid with a net connection, p2p, and a good set of headphones, though 😛).
My mom is somewhat permissive of "christian" rock, but my dad takes the "classical music is the best ever and no other music is worth listening to, and that's the ultimate truth for everyone because it's my opinion" stance. :frown:
Amused
Elite Member
I'm not saying anything should be banned. I'm against the cigarette ad bans.
Again, there is no difference between music videos and commercials other than the initial goal of the creator. Both sell an image, and both have verifiable effects on behavior. Or did all the little girls start dressing like Madonna in the 80s for the hell of it?
BS. The reason tobacco ads were banned is because they induced teens to smoke. Why? Because they saw the image the ads portrayed as funny or cool.
I'm not the one usng half assed arguments in a desparate attempt to save my failed world view. That would be you.
Kids in the suburbs adopted the "gangsta" image because they saw it WHERE????
Of course not ALL kids will act violently because they see violence portrayed as cool. Just as a majority will not start smoking because of tobacco ads. BUT, if one has an effect, you cannot logically conclude the other does not.
Again, they never would have adopted an imgage they had never seen.
And advertising can never make a person buy what they never intended to buy in the first place, right? I'm sorry, but your argument flies in the face of BILLIONS of dollars of market research.
You are arguing this because it scares you, not because you really believe it (if you did, you'd have a better argument). You are afraid that if this is true, bans will commence. Well, to be honest, so am I. I HATE that ads and media are banned because a small minority of people are so open to suggestion.
However, denying reality is not going to make it go away.
And you are still missing the entire point. Listen, I'm not denying that music videos are trying to sell an image, advertising is trying to pull the same thing etc etc....I'm a psych major, I know all the studies and I'm not denying any of them. Yes rap music will make you more violent in the short term. So will video games, rock music, etc, rap is certainly not alone here.
Kids in the suburbs who adopt the gangsta image saw it on TV, and rap music videos. And you know what? They are just playing an image, dressing a certain way, we have terms for them, and they are a bunch of RETARDS. But they are not dangerous, if they are getting girls pregnant and getting arrested it is because they were that way to begin with. It is because they come from a screwed up family, because they have no daddy, because their mom is an alcohilic, because their parents never taught them right from wrong, NOT because they were listening to eminem. Does it happen like that? Sure, sometimes, but it is so rare its ridiculous. Usually from a kid that is so eager to be liked that he will do ANYTHING to be cool. But even in the suburbs, life is sh*tty for some kids, and they are likely to be the ones who are attracted to rap.
From my observations of real life, this is how it works. Rap makes a few retards act stupid. (Rap causes stupidity) The vast majority of kids listen to rap and do stupid things because of environmental factors, including family, peers and environment, because thats the way they grew and thats the way they are. (Third factor) And of course, if you want to see it that way, stupidity causes people to listen to rap, but thats strictly opinion, and has little evidence behind it. (stupidity causes rap)
The study is flawed. It examines girls that listen to rap and girls that dont. It does not take into account any sort of environmental factors, which is where the real problem is, and will more that easily explain their behavior.
You can try as hard as you want to make rap into the devil, and how it makes girls have sex and hit teachers and all this, but its simply not true. Believe what you want, but I'm going to go with what I know and see, instead of what some disconnected doctor who either has no idea what he's talking about cause he only knows what he reads or studies in a laboratory, or feels like being a monkey for political factors.
Kids in the suburbs who adopt the gangsta image saw it on TV, and rap music videos. And you know what? They are just playing an image, dressing a certain way, we have terms for them, and they are a bunch of RETARDS. But they are not dangerous, if they are getting girls pregnant and getting arrested it is because they were that way to begin with. It is because they come from a screwed up family, because they have no daddy, because their mom is an alcohilic, because their parents never taught them right from wrong, NOT because they were listening to eminem. Does it happen like that? Sure, sometimes, but it is so rare its ridiculous. Usually from a kid that is so eager to be liked that he will do ANYTHING to be cool. But even in the suburbs, life is sh*tty for some kids, and they are likely to be the ones who are attracted to rap.
From my observations of real life, this is how it works. Rap makes a few retards act stupid. (Rap causes stupidity) The vast majority of kids listen to rap and do stupid things because of environmental factors, including family, peers and environment, because thats the way they grew and thats the way they are. (Third factor) And of course, if you want to see it that way, stupidity causes people to listen to rap, but thats strictly opinion, and has little evidence behind it. (stupidity causes rap)
The study is flawed. It examines girls that listen to rap and girls that dont. It does not take into account any sort of environmental factors, which is where the real problem is, and will more that easily explain their behavior.
You can try as hard as you want to make rap into the devil, and how it makes girls have sex and hit teachers and all this, but its simply not true. Believe what you want, but I'm going to go with what I know and see, instead of what some disconnected doctor who either has no idea what he's talking about cause he only knows what he reads or studies in a laboratory, or feels like being a monkey for political factors.
loosliptcomptrola
Senior member
I fully agree. It has come to a point where these things are force fed to kids. It shows them how they should act, talk, what to wear, etc. In this they have lost their own hand in creating a piece of American culture. There are still free thinking individuals in this world but the numbers look like they're dwindling... MTV is ruining American culture
:frown:
Amused
Elite Member
Why do you keep throwing up strawmen and arguing with them?
I never said rap music was the devil
BTW, don't agree, then disagree with me in the same post. You are trying so hard to deny reality, that you start your post admitting that media influences behavior, then end it denying that it has any real effect.
Come back when you can present a valid argument that isn't schizophrenic, ok?
Wait, you are starting into the nature vs nurture argument. To say kids would act this way no matter what media they were exposed to seems to mean you think it's all nature, and no nurture, am I correct?
Is it really so hard for you to understand that I agree with you that rap music has an effect but its not nearly the effect that you make it out to be? I didnt think it was brain surgery to figure that out.
Not everything is black and white. It has some effect, but not life changing I'm going to go out and shoot people and have sex and do drugs cause I listen to rap music.
I dont understand how such a simple thing can fly over your head, and then you have the audacity to call my arguments schizophrenic? I say that things are an effect of their environment and you interpret that to mean that its ALL nature and NO nuture? First you can barely acknowledge the difference between a cigarette ad and a rap video, and now this? Where do you come up with this stuff?
The only person denying reality here is you. You dont know the reality because you have no real experience what with youre arguing about.
Not everything is black and white. It has some effect, but not life changing I'm going to go out and shoot people and have sex and do drugs cause I listen to rap music.
I dont understand how such a simple thing can fly over your head, and then you have the audacity to call my arguments schizophrenic? I say that things are an effect of their environment and you interpret that to mean that its ALL nature and NO nuture? First you can barely acknowledge the difference between a cigarette ad and a rap video, and now this? Where do you come up with this stuff?
The only person denying reality here is you. You dont know the reality because you have no real experience what with youre arguing about.
I have been listening to rap music since the age of 9 years old, I am now 19, and do not see anything negative about it. I was an honor roll student all through high school, and am now in college getting above a 3.0. I consider myself to be an upstanding citizen who is socially and politically aware.
It's the environment and the parenting that dictate how a person will react to external influences. Rap music is a product of the capitalistic society we live in. Do not blame it for taking advantage of that fact. Blame the decline in societal standards.
I am sick and tired of people trying to blame entertainment for everything morally wrong in society. Whether it be blaming heavy metal for this & that, or rap for this & that, it is, in my opinion, completely irrespoinsible, and downright moronic. Entertainment is just that... ENTERTAINMENT. It is not a teaching tool, or a basis for moral grounds, entertainment is for the enjoyment of human senses.
It's the environment and the parenting that dictate how a person will react to external influences. Rap music is a product of the capitalistic society we live in. Do not blame it for taking advantage of that fact. Blame the decline in societal standards.
I am sick and tired of people trying to blame entertainment for everything morally wrong in society. Whether it be blaming heavy metal for this & that, or rap for this & that, it is, in my opinion, completely irrespoinsible, and downright moronic. Entertainment is just that... ENTERTAINMENT. It is not a teaching tool, or a basis for moral grounds, entertainment is for the enjoyment of human senses.
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