does it really cost that much more to make a bigger engine?

[3chordcharlie]

an ls400 has reclining, heated and airconditioned rear seats, and is able to park its self. I would say that is more pricey than a camry .


i also worked for lexus a while. yay.

The question isn't "is it more expensive?", it's "How much more expensive?"

 

[HybridSquirrel]

The question isn't "is it more expensive?", it's "How much more expensive?"

well a camry vs a lexus ls400, i'd say its clear why the ls400 is more expensive.

 

[KentState]

How many cars offer engine upgrades, but keep everything else the same? I'm struggling to think of anything current that charges more for just an increase in displacement.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

How many cars offer engine upgrades, but keep everything else the same? I'm struggling to think of anything current that charges more for just an increase in displacement.

Mustangs? v6 in the base model, v8 in the GT. Basically the same car on the inside I think.

hyundai genesis coupe. 2.0 turbo up to a 3.8v6

wrx, toyota corolla/martrix, honda civic, camaro, etc etc etc.

the corolla/matrix and civic are probably what you're looking for. the xrs models of the corolla just had a toyota camry engine in them...and the base civic SI models just have a 2.0l

 

[KentState]

Mustangs? v6 in the base model, v8 in the GT. Basically the same car on the inside I think.

hyundai genesis coupe. 2.0 turbo up to a 3.8v6

wrx, toyota corolla/martrix, honda civic, camaro, etc etc etc.

the corolla/matrix and civic are probably what you're looking for. the xrs models of the corolla just had a toyota camry engine in them...and the base civic SI models just have a 2.0l

Mustang V6 and V8 have different suspensions, brakes, rear end, radiator, exhaust and so on.

I'm sure the Genesis coupe has some difference to handle the extra power.

Camaro V8 has Brembo brakes, different exhaust, suspension, hood and so on.

WRX to STi has a different transmission as well as other tweaks.

The Civic SI is just not a simple pump in displacement. It takes higher quality internals to withstand the higher RPMS and then the suspension and transmission are different.

Even the Corolla/Matrix example has a different transmission, suspension, and exhaust components.

I simply have not seen a case where a company offers the exact same car with just a bump in displacement for a price. There are always other components that go with the engine whether it be cosmetic or suspension, brakes and transmission.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

Mustang V6 and V8 have different suspensions, brakes, rear end, radiator, exhaust and so on.

I'm sure the Genesis coupe has some difference to handle the extra power.

Camaro V8 has Brembo brakes, different exhaust, suspension, hood and so on.

WRX to STi has a different transmission as well as other tweaks.

The Civic SI is just not a simple pump in displacement. It takes higher quality internals to withstand the higher RPMS and then the suspension and transmission are different.

Even the Corolla/Matrix example has a different transmission, suspension, and exhaust components.

I simply have not seen a case where a company offers the exact same car with just a bump in displacement for a price. There are always other components that go with the engine whether it be cosmetic or suspension, brakes and transmission.

so what the hell are you asking? you want a base civic, with a v6 in it? why would any manufacturer do that?

 

[KentState]

so what the hell are you asking? you want a base civic, with a v6 in it? why would any manufacturer do that?

I'm not the OP. I'm asking if anyone has an example to make his point that manufacturers are charging more just for a bigger engine. Every example I can think of offers more than just that.

Though a V6 in an AWD Civic would interesting now that you mention it.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

I'm not the OP. I'm asking if anyone has an example to make his point that manufacturers are charging more just for a bigger engine. Every example I can think of offers more than just that.

Though a V6 in an AWD Civic would interesting now that you mention it.

Heh, I saw a RWD swapped civic on youtube the other day.

I get what you're asking now. I wasn't too sure thats all. Usually the bigger engines come with better trannys and such because it needs it to handle the power. Doesn't the v6 mustang share suspension components with the v8? I couldve sworn it was same suspension, just different tranny.

 

[KentState]

Heh, I saw a RWD swapped civic on youtube the other day.

I get what you're asking now. I wasn't too sure thats all. Usually the bigger engines come with better trannys and such because it needs it to handle the power. Doesn't the v6 mustang share suspension components with the v8? I couldve sworn it was same suspension, just different tranny.

From what I remember, Ford bumped up each trim level to the higher suspension from the previous year.

2011 v6 = 2010 GT
2011 GT = 2010 GT500
2011 GT500 = new

 

[HybridSquirrel]

From what I remember, Ford bumped up each trim level to the higher suspension from the previous year.

2011 v6 = 2010 GT
2011 GT = 2010 GT500
2011 GT500 = new

ahh ok that makes sense. i just read in car & driver it "shared suspension with its bigger brother the GT".....

 

[3chordcharlie]

well a camry vs a lexus ls400, i'd say its clear why the ls400 is more expensive.

?

That wasn't the question!

The question was about the relationship between the cost of upgrades, and the price of upgrades.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

?

That wasn't the question!

The question was about the relationship between the cost of upgrades, and the price of upgrades.

and i was saying, there is a clear and defined line between the top end camry and the low end ls460.


does the camry have heated and air conditioned leather seats all trhoughout the car? reclining leather seats int he back? champagne fridges? is it able to park its self? its not hard to see where the cost comes in. how much do you think all that stuff costs?

an XLE camry will cost 33k well equipped. a decently equipped ls460 will cost about 70k.


the camry has a v6 the ls460 has a v8. the transmission, noise, ride, comfort level, all the optional goodies on the ls460 are certainly worth that extra 40 grand. its not that hard to see in the case of the LS vs the Camry XLE. So they aren't the best two cars to compare. but yeah, its easy to see.

 

[MovingTarget]

btw there is such a thing as a small car with more power. Most companies offer some kind of performance compact car. Honda has the Civic Si, Toyota has the Corolla XRS, Mazda has the Speed3, Subaru has the WRX and STI.

They can't put a full size V6 in a small car. It's just too big and too heavy. FWD cars are already sitting at something like 60/40 weight split on the wheels. Put a bigger and heavier engine on top of the front wheels and it would handle like shit. Subaru gets around the weight issue by using a turbo, and those add significant cost.

They did shoehorn a 3.1L v6 into the Chevrolet Cavalier for years. Those were fun. They probably still could do something like that today, but fuel economy would drop significantly in comparison to an i4.

 

[exdeath]

?

That wasn't the question!

The question was about the relationship between the cost of upgrades, and the price of upgrades.

It's just like computers. You get .01% more for 100x the price. Incremental upgrades for exponentially increasing prices. It's like that in every industry and is the source of the majority of profits because enough people are willing to pay 3x as much for 2 more inches or 2 more Mhz or 2 more HP.

 

[exar333]

They did shoehorn a 3.1L v6 into the Chevrolet Cavalier for years. Those were fun. They probably still could do something like that today, but fuel economy would drop significantly in comparison to an i4.

The old 3.1 v6 got almost 30mpgs on the highway, I know,I had one in high school.

Decent power, 140hp/185tq, but nothing that many i4s today cannot do.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

It's just like computers. You get .01% more for 100x the price. Incremental upgrades for exponentially increasing prices. It's like that in every industry and is the source of the majority of profits because enough people are willing to pay 3x as much for 2 more inches or 2 more Mhz or 2 more HP.

in the case of a lexus ls460 vs a camry xle, you get more like 20% more for 100% the price.

 

[LTC8K6]

Hmm that's not really true at all. The new Maxima is 290 HP, and I don't think it destroys itself every time you touch the pedal.

It weighs a bit more than a Rio, and has a more sophisticated front end, and can fit better tires...

But it's the same as a Rio otherwise...

 

[3chordcharlie]

It's just like computers. You get .01% more for 100x the price. Incremental upgrades for exponentially increasing prices. It's like that in every industry and is the source of the majority of profits because enough people are willing to pay 3x as much for 2 more inches or 2 more Mhz or 2 more HP.

I do know that.

PriusSquirrel just kept listing features and saying it was 'obvious' why one cost more than the other, which wasn't the question.

 

[dpodblood]

It weighs a bit more than a Rio, and has a more sophisticated front end, and can fit better tires...

But it's the same as a Rio otherwise...

Haha yeah I get that. My only point was FWD doesn't mean you will automatically mean you will be overwhelmed with torque steer.

 

[MovingTarget]

The old 3.1 v6 got almost 30mpgs on the highway, I know,I had one in high school.

Decent power, 140hp/185tq, but nothing that many i4s today cannot do.

Yeah, a modern i4 could match that. A modern v6 would be a hell of a beast in a car that size though!