Does It Make A Difference If BP "Cut Corners" to "Save Costs"?

[nobodyknows]

Does it make a difference if BP "cut corners" to "save cost" if they were still within the regulations outlined by the federal government/mms?

I'll bet that if it was your ass out on a rig at risk of being killed you might not be asking such a stupid question.

Well if what they did was within regulations it is the responsibility of business to maximize profit.

Not a stupid question.

So their resposibility is too maximize profits and to hell with worker safety and the enviroment?? DUHHHHH!!

 

[Darwin333]

Almost no federal laws are enforced during the act, they are always enforced after something happens, or they find it though an audit or whistle-blower. But I guess all of you small government people who want the current laws to be "enforced" think that we should hire a government inspector to oversee every federal regulated operation during the act of that operation.

BTW: Considering there are federal laws about which airplane lavatory you can shit in, you'll have to have a TSA member watch you every time you use the lav, just gotta make sure that the current regulations are "enforced."

The regulators didn't do their jobs properly and were more friendly with the oil companies than they were interested in doing their jobs. A million more regulations wouldn't have mattered if the inspectors are doing hookers and blow on the back of the rig with the owners/operators.

However, in the case of deepwater drilling it would require 66 people to have an inspector on each rig that was drilling in the Gulf FULL TIME. And no, you do not need a full time inspector to oversee that every single federal regulation is being complied with (such as your TSA example) but in this case I don't think 66 people is excessive when you consider the complete failure of the government thus far to properly enforce regulations (due to the regulators being cozy with the industry not the lack of regulators), failure of the companies to follow proper regulations and proper protocol, and the potential consequences of unsafe operations.

And all you "big government" people need to figure out how to get your big government to communicate with each other. The "big government" that we currently have (please argue otherwise) has been and still is slowing down the cleanup progress because of "big government" buerocratic bullshit, red tape, CYA mentality, and people wanting to protect their fiefdoms. Personally, I am in the middle (goldilocks government?) not to big and not to small but the current situation is more of an argument towards the failure of big government not the other way around. How many miles of coastland got oiled yesterday because the CG shut down the oil suction barges for inspections and 24 hours later let them go back to work without EVER INSPECTING THE DAMNED THINGS. It has been reported that the delay was due to the CG not being able to find the phone number for the contractor. I found it in 10 minutes with google. That is what you want to base your argument for "big government" on??? Maybe if we had a few more Federal agencies involved (that don't know each others phone numbers) it would be a better situation?

 

[Zorba]

The regulators didn't do their jobs properly and were more friendly with the oil companies than they were interested in doing their jobs. A million more regulations wouldn't have mattered if the inspectors are doing hookers and blow on the back of the rig with the owners/operators.

However, in the case of deepwater drilling it would require 66 people to have an inspector on each rig that was drilling in the Gulf FULL TIME. And no, you do not need a full time inspector to oversee that every single federal regulation is being complied with (such as your TSA example) but in this case I don't think 66 people is excessive when you consider the complete failure of the government thus far to properly enforce regulations (due to the regulators being cozy with the industry not the lack of regulators), failure of the companies to follow proper regulations and proper protocol, and the potential consequences of unsafe operations.

And all you "big government" people need to figure out how to get your big government to communicate with each other. The "big government" that we currently have (please argue otherwise) has been and still is slowing down the cleanup progress because of "big government" buerocratic bullshit, red tape, CYA mentality, and people wanting to protect their fiefdoms. Personally, I am in the middle (goldilocks government?) not to big and not to small but the current situation is more of an argument towards the failure of big government not the other way around. How many miles of coastland got oiled yesterday because the CG shut down the oil suction barges for inspections and 24 hours later let them go back to work without EVER INSPECTING THE DAMNED THINGS. It has been reported that the delay was due to the CG not being able to find the phone number for the contractor. I found it in 10 minutes with google. That is what you want to base your argument for "big government" on??? Maybe if we had a few more Federal agencies involved (that don't know each others phone numbers) it would be a better situation?

I am not a big government person, but I am for smart, sensible and enforced regulation. I just don't understand the small government people who act like anything not illegal or if you are not caught in the act is okay to do.

If you station 2 inspectors on every reg one of two things will more than likely happen. 1) They will become cozy with the crew and let things slide or 2) they will be a complete hard ass CYA roadblock.

The rigs probably should have very frequent random, unannounced inspections/audits, though. Just like what happens in my industry.

 

[werepossum]

I am not a big government person, but I am for smart, sensible and enforced regulation. I just don't understand the small government people who act like anything not illegal or if you are not caught in the act is okay to do.

If you station 2 inspectors on every reg one of two things will more than likely happen. 1) They will become cozy with the crew and let things slide or 2) they will be a complete hard ass CYA roadblock.

The rigs probably should have very frequent random, unannounced inspections/audits, though. Just like what happens in my industry.

Hard to have frequent, surprise inspections when you are miles away and have to travel by helicopter. I think a qualified on-site inspector, who witnesses (and signs off on) every test of safety systems and all important systems is a much better idea. Also, if the inspector is living on the rig he'll be much less inclined to look the other way than if he just blows by once in a while.

 

[bfdd]

Zorba your reply to mine makes no sense. The government already employs people in the positions required for inspection of these places during construction and after. These people are already employed by the government. If they had seen a problem they should of said something that's up to them. The government creates regulation and by doing so needs to enforce it or stop fucking regulating it. Unenforced Regulations are pointless and if you're saying the only thing you can do is in hind sight then what's the point of any regulation?

 

[bfdd]

Weak regulation does not absolve the company of any responsibility.
Just ask drug makers who sold FDA approved drugs like Phen-Fen.

Who is saying it does? I've been on here telling most of you to shut the fuck up over this because you guys have no clue what you're talking about etc etc etc and I've even pointed out the weak regulation. That doesn't change the fact BP should still be on the line(cost wise) for most of this. It's just ignorant as FUCK to point your finger at BP and say "OMFG U R EVAL AND WRAWNG AND OMZG" when it's pretty obvious governmental regulations and regulators were obviously not enough for this situation or they didn't do their job.

Who's fault is this? Probably some dumb wrench turner who slipped up and decided just not to say anything. How he got away with it though is layers upon layers of idiots from all sides.

 

[bfdd]

I am not a big government person, but I am for smart, sensible and enforced regulation. I just don't understand the small government people who act like anything not illegal or if you are not caught in the act is okay to do.

If you station 2 inspectors on every reg one of two things will more than likely happen. 1) They will become cozy with the crew and let things slide or 2) they will be a complete hard ass CYA roadblock.

The rigs probably should have very frequent random, unannounced inspections/audits, though. Just like what happens in my industry.

No the solution is to have a "team" of inspectors/regulators who rotate around the rigs randomly. That way the people who work on the rigs have no clue who is coming, but would still know when they were going to show up. These guys could stay on for 4 days to a week at a time, inspect every rig every 2 months or something. You could even make the oil companies pay for it.

 

[Zorba]

No the solution is to have a "team" of inspectors/regulators who rotate around the rigs randomly. That way the people who work on the rigs have no clue who is coming, but would still know when they were going to show up. These guys could stay on for 4 days to a week at a time, inspect every rig every 2 months or something. You could even make the oil companies pay for it.

Yes, that makes sense. Except the advanced notice should be as small as possible. Where I work the FAA has badges that let them walk right in, no signing in, no notification, no nothing. You always have to watch what you say and what you are doing because the feds could be in the cube next to you. Knowing when they are coming lets you get your act together and clean stuff up.

Back in the day when I worked hazardous waste we always know about inspections ahead of the time. So we cleaned everything up, labeled everything, got rid of stuff we weren't supposed to have, etc.

In both industries, almost all enforcement is after the fact. The FAA doesn't look over your should and say "Now use this drill bit, now use this primer, etc" they find out that you screwed up 5 months later during an audit and then they fine the hell out of you.

Once in a great awhile there will be real time enforcement of regs, but that is not the norm and would be impossible to do for even every very important regulation. That is what inspections and audits are for, it just so happens that when there is an accident it ensures an immediate inspection/audit/investigation. And then everyone whines that there was no real time enforcement of whichever regulation.

 

[jman19]

Does it make a difference if BP "cut corners" to "save cost" if they were still within the regulations outlined by the federal government/mms?

Being negligent or irresponsible is not ok, regulations be damned.

 

[bfdd]

Yes, that makes sense. Except the advanced notice should be as small as possible. Where I work the FAA has badges that let them walk right in, no signing in, no notification, no nothing. You always have to watch what you say and what you are doing because the feds could be in the cube next to you. Knowing when they are coming lets you get your act together and clean stuff up.

Back in the day when I worked hazardous waste we always know about inspections ahead of the time. So we cleaned everything up, labeled everything, got rid of stuff we weren't supposed to have, etc.

In both industries, almost all enforcement is after the fact. The FAA doesn't look over your should and say "Now use this drill bit, now use this primer, etc" they find out that you screwed up 5 months later during an audit and then they fine the hell out of you.

Once in a great awhile there will be real time enforcement of regs, but that is not the norm and would be impossible to do for even every very important regulation. That is what inspections and audits are for, it just so happens that when there is an accident it ensures an immediate inspection/audit/investigation. And then everyone whines that there was no real time enforcement of whichever regulation.

Of course they can't have 24/7 regulators over the shoulder of everyone making sure work gets done properly. I'm not stating that, but at the same time they shouldn't be telling BP to fill out their own paper work and they're going to sign it for them. They should have "semi-surprise" visits to these places, let BP know that someone will be showing up at a date and that's it. Surprise visits would be awesome, I just don't see it working in this situation.

 

[Zorba]

Of course they can't have 24/7 regulators over the shoulder of everyone making sure work gets done properly. I'm not stating that, but at the same time they shouldn't be telling BP to fill out their own paper work and they're going to sign it for them. They should have "semi-surprise" visits to these places, let BP know that someone will be showing up at a date and that's it. Surprise visits would be awesome, I just don't see it working in this situation.

I agree with you.

 

[bfdd]

I agree with you.

Do you think these guys even check to see if nuts are torqued to spec? I've never had an inspector, oil companies or governmental that would check to see if the torque I said something is at really is. Then again I never under or over torqued anything to any damaging extent, but I can guarantee people let "oh it's about 100ft/lbs it's ok" slide.