Cheap quality gas ain't gonna last forever. I'd like to fill dozens and dozens of jugs while the prices are low. Gasoline doesn't 'degrade' while sitting for long periods of time does it?
Does gasoline have a shelf life?
- Thread starter rimshaker
- Start date
Actually I believ it will, as other air particle/gasoline particle slowly(albeit very slowly) exchanges in and out of the container. This make it less pure and degrade the 'burnability' (is this even a word?)
You only get about 2 months to store gas. After that is becomes bad. Your car will still run on it but you will use more of if thus spending more money.
<< Cheap quality gas ain't gonna last forever. I'd like to fill dozens and dozens of jugs while the prices are low. Gasoline doesn't 'degrade' while sitting for long periods of time does it? >>
I don't know exactly what the process is, but it does degrade.
In fact, you can get preservative for gas! I always use it in gas destined for the lawn-mower, chainsaw, snowblower, etc. because those sit for months at a time without use.
Now, the better question...
Is it really worth the effort, space, fire risk, etc. to save even $0.50/gallon for the kind of amounts you're talking about.
Maybe if I had a big 500 gallon hand crank tank like we used to use on the farm I would fill it now.
But dozens of plastic jugs ... not worth it.
Besides, you could get into trouble pumping gas into unapproved containers, at least in the US. You probably won't get caught filling up one for the weed-eater, but if you sit there at the pump with "dozens" somebody will likely take notice.
Yes it does degrade. My babies won't start for the heck of it when they've been standing around for a year or so, only a fresh filling will make them come back alive.
The reason is that the lighter ingredients evaporate - you can't store gasoline in totally closed containers since it expands and contracts too much with temperature changes, and the little breathing holes are enough for the important spices to vanish
Diesel oil lasts longer, apparently.
regards, Peter
The reason is that the lighter ingredients evaporate - you can't store gasoline in totally closed containers since it expands and contracts too much with temperature changes, and the little breathing holes are enough for the important spices to vanish
Diesel oil lasts longer, apparently.
regards, Peter
You can get petrol stabalisers that extend the shelf life up to 6 months or a year, I forget. I doubt it performs in a car as well as new petrol, but for most lawn equipment (petrol hungry and beltching black smoke anyway) you won't notice a difference. I use this for the lawmower, weekwacker, chainsaw and snowblower, as they sit months at a time without being used. I only ever use it in the car when I realise that I should have filled up and the car won't make it to the petrol station, then I pour whatever is left in the can into the car.
I'm sure that petrol can be stored for extended periods, many years even, but at a price higher than anyone here would pay. (After all the avation fuel on an aircraft carrier is designed to last several months and still run close to 100%.) I would imagine metal contains to be better than plastic ones. However, you might need to add expensive chemicals to stop it gumming up, perhaps even keep it moving etc.
I'm sure that petrol can be stored for extended periods, many years even, but at a price higher than anyone here would pay. (After all the avation fuel on an aircraft carrier is designed to last several months and still run close to 100%.) I would imagine metal contains to be better than plastic ones. However, you might need to add expensive chemicals to stop it gumming up, perhaps even keep it moving etc.
The best storable fuel for the money is kerosene. Sealed in a CLEAN 55 gal drum from sunlight the storage is 10 years. In diesel cars the problem is water, baffles (metal and spounge like), you can grow ummm... scum ... I can't remember right now the correct term/name. Sometimes you have to put in treatment in older diesel cars or steam clean the tank for the previous reason. Now some truckers tried to use kerosene in the engine cause the price was cheaper so a dye is added if you get caught not paying the tax for regular diesel. Also diesel has lubricants, additatives that make the engine last longer. If you wish to dispose of motor oil that has few metals in it you can dump it into a diesel tank and tis no problem espically on an 18 wheeler tractor.
Bruce
Bruce
Not sure if the same applies here, but during oil spills in the ocean, the oil naturally breaks down (via bacteria and sunlight). Also, i've heard that some types of bacteria are used in oil reseviors (the ones naturally in the ground) to break down the oil into something more useful.. same thing here?
<< Cheap quality gas ain't gonna last forever. I'd like to fill dozens and dozens of jugs while the prices are low. Gasoline doesn't 'degrade' while sitting for long periods of time does it? >>
Yes it does. The longer chain hydrocarbon in gasoline deteriorates and oxidizes to form gum. This is somewhat slowed when you have the container filled to the top. Also it is a violation of many local fire code to have more than certain amount of gasoline on residential property(i believe cali is 10 gallon, but I'm guessin car tanks are exception) and you could be in big trouble if your house catch on fire, because theres a good chance that insurance will be denied.
Don't do it. Its too dangerous. Gasoline is extremely flammable.
<< Gasoline is extremely flammable. >>
*checks whether this is indeed the Highly Technical Forums*
*breaths a sigh of relief*
I don't want to argue that gasoline is not flammable. If it wasn't, I would have a pretty hard time starting my car.
But, there is something that needs comment.
The factor that may make gas store poorly is NOT long chain molecules. Long chain molecules tend to be lazy and just lie there quietly.
It is more whether the molecule is NOT saturated. If the fuel is composed of only saturated components - paraffins - cyclic or linear - it will be quite stable. Avgas is very good in this regard for that reason. Autogas, though, usually has a fair amount of alkenes - unsaturated stuff. It's good for octane rating, but needs stabilizers to keep it from going bad too quickly, forming varnish or gum. ( The lawnmower that won't start in the spring.)
A few years ago, I ran across the "Gasoline FAQ" by Bruce Hamilton. It has everything you may want to know about gasoline - and probably much more.
But, there is something that needs comment.
The factor that may make gas store poorly is NOT long chain molecules. Long chain molecules tend to be lazy and just lie there quietly.
It is more whether the molecule is NOT saturated. If the fuel is composed of only saturated components - paraffins - cyclic or linear - it will be quite stable. Avgas is very good in this regard for that reason. Autogas, though, usually has a fair amount of alkenes - unsaturated stuff. It's good for octane rating, but needs stabilizers to keep it from going bad too quickly, forming varnish or gum. ( The lawnmower that won't start in the spring.)
A few years ago, I ran across the "Gasoline FAQ" by Bruce Hamilton. It has everything you may want to know about gasoline - and probably much more.
Plus, especially early on when the more volatile components evaporate, if you are storing lots of gasoline indoors in what's likely not airtight containers, you can get a concentration buildup of those highly flammable (as we've already been convinced, see above) components to a point where the spark of a light switch when flicked is enough to send your garage to the moon.
Shalmanese, I love ya!
Shalmanese, I love ya!
<< I don't want to argue that gasoline is not flammable. If it wasn't, I would have a pretty hard time starting my car. >>
True that, but people's ignorance on how flammable it is never cease to amaze me. Vodka, kerosene, diesel fuel are all flammable just like gasoline, but gasoline should be treated differently. For gods sake it has flash point of -45°C or so and a bit of vapor crawlage even in cold winter can start fire.
<<
But, there is something that needs comment.
The factor that may make gas store poorly is NOT long chain molecules. Long chain molecules tend to be lazy and just lie there quietly.
It is more whether the molecule is NOT saturated. If the fuel is composed of only saturated components - paraffins - cyclic or linear - it will be quite stable. Avgas is very good in this regard for that reason. Autogas, though, usually has a fair amount of alkenes - unsaturated stuff. It's good for octane rating, but needs stabilizers to keep it from going bad too quickly, forming varnish or gum. ( The lawnmower that won't start in the spring.) >>
Yup I stand corrected
Aviation gasoline is similar to mid boiling point petroleum ether huh? Alot of emergency generators runs on propane or natural gas since they don't pose gumming problem.
<<
A few years ago, I ran across the "Gasoline FAQ" by Bruce Hamilton. It has everything you may want to know about gasoline - and probably much more. >>
Oh really? I read gasoline FAQ quite a while ago and its simply the best reference I can find on gasoline online.
As for the flammability of gasoline:
On a cold day, you can throw a lit match into a can of kerosene or diesel, and nothing will happen. Don't try that with gasoline.
And now for a story...
Way back when, I worked for a summer as an instructor @ a Boy Scout camp. This camp had a bonfire every friday.
Now, large dry logs for this bonfire (it was generally 8 to 12 feet high) were in short supply, so they settled for large wet logs and a bucket of kerosene to convince it.
The staff spent a good part of friday afternoons building this stack. The fuel was added shortly before the scouts arrived, just after dusk. One of the staff members was tasked to walk down to the maintenance facility to fill up a metal gas can with kerosene.
Now, at the maintenance facility, there were 3 hand-crank tanks: q 500 gallon diesel, 500 gallon gasoline, and a 50 gallon kerosene. All very clearly marked. This meatball filled the canwitth about 3 gallons of gasoline instead of kerosene.
So, now he goes back to the stack and starts pouring the gasoline on. Something I forgot to mention before is that there is a semicircle of #10 cans buried in the ground about 8 yards out from the fire. These all have a roll of toilet paper in them which is soaked in kerosene. These are then lit and act as a sort of stage light. Some of you may see where this is going at this point!
These cans are already lit as he pours the gas on the fire. The gasoline vapors creep out along the ground and reach the cans in sufficient concentration to ignite at about the time he's poured about 2 gallons on the stack.
The vapors ignited, and a sheet of flame flashed over the entire area between the cans and the bonfire stack. The stack went up with a huge *whump* sound that just about knocked me down (I was just outside the cans). The fireball was at least 20 feet high. The guy was still pouring the gas when this happened. The nozzle of the gan is now burning like a torch. He now has the presence of mind to throw the can into the woods where it continues to burn fiercely for quite a while.
By some miracle, nobody was seriosly hurt. Mostly 1st degree burns and missing body hair.
To add insult to injury, the fire didn't stay lit because the gas burned off to fast to light the wood.
Be careful out there!
On a cold day, you can throw a lit match into a can of kerosene or diesel, and nothing will happen. Don't try that with gasoline.
And now for a story...
Way back when, I worked for a summer as an instructor @ a Boy Scout camp. This camp had a bonfire every friday.
Now, large dry logs for this bonfire (it was generally 8 to 12 feet high) were in short supply, so they settled for large wet logs and a bucket of kerosene to convince it.
The staff spent a good part of friday afternoons building this stack. The fuel was added shortly before the scouts arrived, just after dusk. One of the staff members was tasked to walk down to the maintenance facility to fill up a metal gas can with kerosene.
Now, at the maintenance facility, there were 3 hand-crank tanks: q 500 gallon diesel, 500 gallon gasoline, and a 50 gallon kerosene. All very clearly marked. This meatball filled the canwitth about 3 gallons of gasoline instead of kerosene.
So, now he goes back to the stack and starts pouring the gasoline on. Something I forgot to mention before is that there is a semicircle of #10 cans buried in the ground about 8 yards out from the fire. These all have a roll of toilet paper in them which is soaked in kerosene. These are then lit and act as a sort of stage light. Some of you may see where this is going at this point!
These cans are already lit as he pours the gas on the fire. The gasoline vapors creep out along the ground and reach the cans in sufficient concentration to ignite at about the time he's poured about 2 gallons on the stack.
The vapors ignited, and a sheet of flame flashed over the entire area between the cans and the bonfire stack. The stack went up with a huge *whump* sound that just about knocked me down (I was just outside the cans). The fireball was at least 20 feet high. The guy was still pouring the gas when this happened. The nozzle of the gan is now burning like a torch. He now has the presence of mind to throw the can into the woods where it continues to burn fiercely for quite a while.
By some miracle, nobody was seriosly hurt. Mostly 1st degree burns and missing body hair.
To add insult to injury, the fire didn't stay lit because the gas burned off to fast to light the wood.
Be careful out there!
<<
Shalmanese, I love ya! >>
I love you too *bats eyelids*
Maybe this should be moved to Off Topic
I used to work in a laboratory at a refinery.. as far as I can remember:
The first thing to change (drop) in stored gasoline is the 'light end' concentration like butanes & propane content. These components are blended into the fuel to aid engine starting and ignition properties. Winter gasoline contains more of these components than summer gas. These light components will pass through plastic very easily so store gas in tightly sealed metal containers.
The middle distillate components take a VERY long time to degrade and so will be fine (depending on cleanliness of container)
The heavier components may turn into wax if the fuel is chilled to very cold temperatures, say -50°C and below.
Any additives may degrade earlier as these are likely to be more reactive than any hydrocarbons.
Hope that helps,
Yoshi.
The first thing to change (drop) in stored gasoline is the 'light end' concentration like butanes & propane content. These components are blended into the fuel to aid engine starting and ignition properties. Winter gasoline contains more of these components than summer gas. These light components will pass through plastic very easily so store gas in tightly sealed metal containers.
The middle distillate components take a VERY long time to degrade and so will be fine (depending on cleanliness of container)
The heavier components may turn into wax if the fuel is chilled to very cold temperatures, say -50°C and below.
Any additives may degrade earlier as these are likely to be more reactive than any hydrocarbons.
Hope that helps,
Yoshi.
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