Does GameWorks influences AMD's Cards game performance?

[Jaydip]

Some of the posts here are downright lolworhy.It seems folks want NV to test the game for AMD, it's the developer's job to optimize the game not NV, they just have to ensure the GW specific features are working on their cards nothing more.I remember when AMD had better dev relation just a couple of years ago people used to blame NV that they should be more aggressive.It seems this forum is like this, poor performance in geforce cards, NV's fault poor performance in radeon cards, NV's fault too It is really way too funny.Guess AMD releasing BD was Intel's fault too, today AMD in this position because of AMD alone, they are the only one to blame for their failures period.Remember these are the visionaries who sold their mobile graphics division....

 

[R0H1T]

Some of the posts here are downright lolworhy.It seems folks want NV to test the game for AMD, it's the developer's job to optimize the game not NV, they just have to ensure the GW specific features are working on their cards nothing more.I remember when AMD had better dev relation just a couple of years ago people used to blame NV that they should be more aggressive.It seems this forum is like this, poor performance in geforce cards, NV's fault poor performance in radeon cards, NV's fault too It is really way too funny.Guess AMD releasing BD was Intel's fault too, today AMD in this position because of AMD alone, they are the only one to blame for their failures period.Remember these are the visionaries who sold their mobile graphics division....

Yeah closed source remember & then a quarter later a patch from the dev fixes most of these anomalies :whiste:
Yes you know cause Intel & Nvidia are making tonnes of money in the mobile segment aren't they

 

[Jaydip]

Yeah closed source remember & then a quarter later a patch from the dev fixes most of these anomalies :whiste:
Yes you know cause Intel & Nvidia are making tonnes of money in the mobile segment aren't they

so blame the dev? seems logical to me. Ask that to qualcomm lol, seems to me they are doing great!!!!

 

[R0H1T]

so blame the dev? seems logical to me. Ask that to qualcomm lol, seems to me they are doing great!!!!

why just the dev, Nvidia screwing AMD customers is equally deplorable! If I bought an i7 4790K & it crippled gaming perf on everything else (say a dGPU from AMD or Nvidia) other than its IGP then everyone would absolutely murder Intel for it, rightly so btw.

You don't really know much about the mobile segment do you? They've been selling cellular baseband (integrated onto the SoC) for ages now, that's why they are this profitable. Bet you didn't know they make a tonne of money from their royalties on various telecom patents.

 

[Jaydip]

why just the dev, Nvidia screwing AMD customers is equally deplorable! If I bought an i7 4790K & it crippled gaming perf on everything else (say a dGPU from AMD or Nvidia) other than its IGP then everyone would absolutely murder Intel for it, rightly so btw.

You don't really know much about the mobile segment do you? They've been selling cellular baseband (integrated onto the SoC) for ages now, that's why they are this profitable. Bet you didn't know they make a tonne of money from their royalties on various telecom patents.

How are they screwing AMD customers really? should NV go and test the game on AMD's systems? that is the job of the devs not NV. Erm so who makes SD then? selling their mobile graphics for $65 million was beyond stupid, it just shows they lack vision.That is the reason they are sadly irrelevant in the notebook gaming segment as well, they basically gift wrapped that to NV.I don't know if you remember it was ATI who pioneered tessellation but what they did with it? fermi came and made that thing special, so just having great ideas is irrelevant you need to capitalize on them.

 

[gamervivek]

Yes, it just the driver. AMD's drivers cant handle a huge amount of draw calls without getting in performance troubles. You see the same behaviour in the 3DMark feature test:

The nVidia driver is up to 3x times faster than the AMD driver with MT. And you see this in Project Cars, too.

And AMD driver is 2.4x times faster than nvidia's with the i5 with MT.

It's rather amusing that you'd post that discrepancy side by side.

 

[sontin]

Or maybe this number is just wrong.
I used it because the head title is in there.

 

[naukkis]

Or maybe this number is just wrong.
I used it because the head title is in there.

AMD don't have multithreaded DX11 so probably Anand's people just messed up 290x and 970 multithreaded results.

 

[R0H1T]

How are they screwing AMD customers really? should NV go and test the game on AMD's systems? that is the job of the devs not NV. Erm so who makes SD then? selling their mobile graphics for $65 million was beyond stupid, it just shows they lack vision.That is the reason they are sadly irrelevant in the notebook gaming segment as well, they basically gift wrapped that to NV.I don't know if you remember it was ATI who pioneered tessellation but what they did with it? fermi came and made that thing special, so just having great ideas is irrelevant you need to capitalize on them.

Instructing or forcing devs to (over)optimize features that won't ever work on an AMD GPU, not having the option to turn it off et al. Even if the Physx thing is overblown the GW titles (at launch) being broken on AMD GPU's is a pattern now, can't see how the devs would constantly shoot themselves in the foot without Nvidia forcing this on them or maybe paying (compensating) them do so?

Does any SD come without QC's baseband, AFAIK it doesn't? There is no money to be made in this market unless you sell hundreds of millions of chips at very thin margins (think Mediatek) or are a highly integrated player like Apple or Samsung. QC demands a premium because they are market leader but even they are fumbling now with all the delays & cheap stuff, including Intel's, basically eroding or zeroing their low end marketshare.

 

[gamervivek]

Or maybe this number is just wrong.
I used it because the head title is in there.

I entertained that possibility yesterday, but they still haven't corrected it.

Their article says that AMD aren't doing multithreading, while recommending an i5 2500k over i3 4130 for AMD cards. :whiste:

Of course this is besides the point that AMD CPUs aren't exactly used to bench these cards so the 3x difference with 8350 is immaterial.


And again going back to the tables, 970 gets half the MT draw calls on i3, so a similar behavior on i5 might be possible. 750Ti doesn't improve appreciably on either i3 or i5 while doubling on 8350. It isn't as clear cut as digitalfoundry want it to be.

edit: decided to check out the linked google doc, and they've apparently screwed up in another place. They did mix up those numbers for 970 and 290X, but there are other glaring mistakes as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NoxzsMt7-inVKjGHw1IOW3fyPq0WaHNHFiBPZh5-EM4/edit?pli=1#gid=0

 

[SirPauly]

The CPU DirectX 11 MT makes more sense than nVidia sneaking in GPU physX. Amd may of not decided to spend resources there on DirectX 11 and decided to spend resources on Mantle.

 

[Jaydip]

Instructing or forcing devs to (over)optimize features that won't ever work on an AMD GPU, not having the option to turn it off et al. Even if the Physx thing is overblown the GW titles (at launch) being broken on AMD GPU's is a pattern now, can't see how the devs would constantly shoot themselves in the foot without Nvidia forcing this on them or maybe paying (compensating) them do so?

Does any SD come without QC's baseband, AFAIK it doesn't? There is no money to be made in this market unless you sell hundreds of millions of chips at very thin margins (think Mediatek) or are a highly integrated player like Apple or Samsung. QC demands a premium because they are market leader but even they are fumbling now with all the delays & cheap stuff, including Intel's, basically eroding or zeroing their low end marketshare.

So ok lets see, if the devs are not optimizing the game then maybe knock their doors? the problem is PC gaming is a least priority to the devs and its not gonna change anytime soon.You can blame NV all you want but the reality is you can expect the PC ports to be under optimized for a long time. Well still during the boom money was to be made from it.

 

[sakete]

So basically, the conclusion from this thread is that I should buy an Nvidia GPU because AMD is screwed?

(I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but I've been researching for months now what setup to get as I'll be building an entirely new system from scratch soon).

In the past I've always had AMD GPUs but I never liked the Catalyst Control Center, I found it cumbersome and slow. My laptop has a GTX660M and the Nvidia control center is more pleasant to use. Granted, I haven't used Catalyst for over 2 years now (had to get rid of my old desktop as I moved overseas) so maybe it has improved since then.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

So basically, the conclusion from this thread is that I should buy an Nvidia GPU because AMD is screwed?

(I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but I've been researching for months now what setup to get as I'll be building an entirely new system from scratch soon).

In the past I've always had AMD GPUs but I never liked the Catalyst Control Center, I found it cumbersome and slow. My laptop has a GTX660M and the Nvidia control center is more pleasant to use. Granted, I haven't used Catalyst for over 2 years now (had to get rid of my old desktop as I moved overseas) so maybe it has improved since then.

Nah, just buy what's a good deal. All games are playable on both brands, just don't pre order any, if it runs bad at launch just buy it cheaper a month later.

 

[sakete]

Nah, just buy what's a good deal. All games are playable on both brands, just don't pre order any, if it runs bad at launch just buy it cheaper a month later.

Alright, thanks! (en bedankt!)

 

[R0H1T]

Alright, thanks! (en bedankt!)

And wait for the R9 3xx to launch

 

[SirPauly]

How does AMD stand a chance against that?!

What if nVidia didn't do any GPU physX calls? What if nVidia invested resources in a robust DirectX 11 MT in their drivers instead of a proprietary API?

 

[AnandThenMan]

Just read some of the responses in this thread. It's pathetic some of these people call themselves PC enthusiasts. 10-15 years ago they would be laughed out of the room (or on our forum) and no one would take their bias seriously:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1861353

Some of the comments there are truly unbelievable. GW has without a doubt done its job.

 

[SirPauly]

Not really! I see conjecture and attacking with questionable data --- what if GameWorks wasn't the problem but AMD's DirectX 11 driver with MT?

 

[Zanovar]

Some of the comments there are truly unbelievable. GW has without a doubt done its job.

Scary.

 

[SirPauly]

If nVidia was cheating, AMD would be offering awareness and expose the issue, they had keys during development. Amd is now working hard with the developer to improve performance and offered, officially, they love Project CARS.

AMD is rolling up their sleeves and going to work for their customers.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Not really! I see conjecture and attacking with questionable data --- what if GameWorks wasn't the problem but AMD's DirectX 11 driver with MT?

Simple test. Gamers with Nvidia cards can go into the Nvidia control panel and force PhysX to the CPU. Test Project Cars performance before and after and then we'll have our answer as to whether or not the game is "secretly" offloading PhysX to Nvidia GPUs.

 

[SirPauly]

Indeed! And raised that point a few pages back and data is very welcomed.

 

[lilltesaito]

If nVidia was cheating, AMD would be offering awareness and expose the issue, they had keys during development. Amd is now working hard with the developer to improve performance and offered, officially, they love Project CARS.

AMD is rolling up their sleeves and going to work for their customers.

They could be building a case on what is going on. To me it would be very difficult to prove anything is going on. Have two parties causing issues, how do you prove something is going on? Nvidia will say they are just offering help and putting graphical improvements into the game and the Dev will just say that they are accepting the help from Nvidia.

To tricky to really call out Nvidia on this. I do think they are working this just right, as other have said, few months later Dev fix the problem but the damage is already done from the tech sites reviews.

AMD can not just call out Dev saying they are not helping, because they would be burning bridges if they did that.

 

[Goatsecks]

If nVidia was cheating, AMD would be offering awareness and expose the issue...

Quite, the ball is AMD's court now: expose the conspiracy and/or provide evidence that the SMS devs are talking shit (surely they have sent an email since october, right?) or get on and provide a fix.

This thread is a misinformation circle jerk.