Does EVERYONE cheat, to one extent or another, in grad school?

[imported_Tomato]

One of my girl friends is in medical school, and she openly admits to me that if it weren't for two of her friends whom she cheats off regularly when it comes to homework and exams, she'd fail out of med school. She claims that EVERYONE cheats, and the only way anyone gets through med school is to cheat... she doesn't think it's a big deal at all, and her reasoning is "you learn everything you need to know through residency, not exams or homework".

My fiance is a computer science PhD student, and he says that almost all other PhD students work together on homework assignments and projects (even though this is explicitly against academic policy). He has friends in the CS program but not in any of his classes, and he does everything entirely on his own - homework, projects, studying for exams, etc. I feel bad seeing him work so hard and only pull off a B on assignments, missing only 2 or 3 out of 25 problems but ranking poorly because so many other students turned in homework that they've collaborated on/compared answers with. It just doesn't seem fair, but of course he isn't going to rat on anyone.

Is this the norm in grad school?

 

[JonnyStarks]

Kind of unsettling when you think of med students doing this... what if there's no one to consult with when they're operating on me?

 

[Paul Ma]

I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

 

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: JonnyStarks
Kind of unsettling when you think of med students doing this... what if there's no one to consult with when they're operating on me?

No kidding. She's not extremely smart, and she really doesn't work that hard... I edited my post above, her reasoning is "Doctors learn everything they need to know when they go through residency, tests and homework don't teach you anything."

 

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

 

[flashbacck]

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: JonnyStarks
Kind of unsettling when you think of med students doing this... what if there's no one to consult with when they're operating on me?

No kidding. She's not extremely smart, and she really doesn't work that hard... I edited my post above, her reasoning is "Doctors learn everything they need to know when they go through residency, tests and homework don't teach you anything."

That sounds like she's justifying her cheating.

edit: random thought: it seems weird that working together on homework is against univ. policy.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Not in Computer Science / Computer Engineering, no.

 

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: flashbacck

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: JonnyStarks
Kind of unsettling when you think of med students doing this... what if there's no one to consult with when they're operating on me?

No kidding. She's not extremely smart, and she really doesn't work that hard... I edited my post above, her reasoning is "Doctors learn everything they need to know when they go through residency, tests and homework don't teach you anything."

That sounds like she's justifying her cheating.

Pretty much... I lost a bit of respect for her, even though we've been friends since preschool. :\

 

[n0cmonkey]

I would never go to a doctor that I know cheated in grad school.

 

[desteffy]

that is ridiculous.

I am in grad school for math right now and I have never, and will never cheat.

That is NOT the norm as far as I am aware, and I have heard professors talking about how another professor (from a different school) was about to fail 2 PhD students out of school for cheating on a homework project.

Generally in grad classes we are allowed to work together on many of the homeworks, but "working together" and "copying" are two VERY different things, we are expected to have things in our own words. But takehome midterms/finals etc are very much solo projects. On such matters it is easy for a prof to see when people are cheating, work that that level usually can be done in many different ways.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I would never go to a doctor that I know cheated in grad school.

That's why they don't tell you that they cheated...

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

What university?

And, I agree with n0c.

 

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

What university?

And, I agree with n0c.

USC... and I don't believe it's the university's policy, just the specific class's (on the prof's syllabus).

 

[desteffy]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

What university?

And, I agree with n0c.

university of pheonix 😕

 

[SLU MD]

I can assure you that cheating is NOT a normal thing in med school. I am currently in med school and I dont know anyone that cheats on exams (we dont really have homework). By the way, cheating would be bad anyway, you have to pass standardized boards to become an MD.

SLU M.D.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: desteffy

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

What university?

And, I agree with n0c.

university of pheonix 😕

GRRRRRRRR DAMN THOSE BANNERS!!

Hmm USC, interesting, sorry to see everyone feels the desire to cheat. 🙁

 

[TuxDave]

I haven't cheated in graduate school, but I can see the motivation why. Most of my grad friends prefer to 'collaborate' because by the time you hit grad school, classes and grades don't matter anymore. It's all really about the research that you get done and that's probably why they don't feel so bad about cheating.

 

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: desteffy

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

What university?

And, I agree with n0c.

university of pheonix 😕

GRRRRRRRR DAMN THOSE BANNERS!!

Hmm USC, interesting, sorry to see everyone feels the desire to cheat. 🙁

Sigh, same here. 🙁 TuxDave has an interesting point though, once you're PhD-level the research seems to take priority over homework, etc.

 

[MrDingleDangle]

never cheated in grad school

im not sure the rules for working together...i will sometimes have someone else i trust in the class read over my work that is take home to make sure it makes since, but that stuff u cant copy because there is no way more then one person will answer it the same way...i will also direct people to papers that might be helpful for the answer if i found one, but if anything i think that stuff should be encouraged in grad school

i dont remember ever having a take home project/test that was right or wrong answers in grad school

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: desteffy

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Tomato

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
I don't know about the policy on collaboration, but I think you learn the most from working on problem sets with other people. The University of Chicago Econ Department encourages people to work together, figure out the idea behind the problem, then write up separately.

Maybe that applies for business/econ, but not for computer science? Not sure about the details, I just know that's how it works at his university.

What university?

And, I agree with n0c.

university of pheonix 😕

GRRRRRRRR DAMN THOSE BANNERS!!

Hmm USC, interesting, sorry to see everyone feels the desire to cheat. 🙁

Sigh, same here. 🙁 TuxDave has an interesting point though, once you're PhD-level the research seems to take priority over homework, etc.

You get much homework on a PhD? My gf has finished her PhD and I don't think she did 'set homework' at all. BUT she did 'a lot' of research + experiements though. If you don't come up with research and your experiment/ idea doesn't work = fail. But I guess this is in Physiology so you wouldn't be examed on it in the normal way.

Btw how do you cheat in an exam?! All the exams I have taken are pretty strict and standard from when I was 16 to 21 now. You sit with your own desk in a hall and are a few or so away from people either side. Moderators walk by checking.

Well working together in assignments and such isn't that bad imo. At the end of the day the research/ exam takes most of the grades right? Well at my Uni it takes 100% of the grade so if you copy all the work it makes no difference. You sit an exam on your own and if you didn't do the work yourself/ work with others and took some of it in you are SCREWED. If you copy you won't learn and will get shafted in the exam.

In your friends place at least he'll score well in the exams. People who blatently copy 'usually' don't learn/ understand the material as well.

Koing

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Tomato

Is this the norm in grad school?

Yes, norm in Law School also

and its becomming the nrom in College

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Koing

You get much homework on a PhD? My gf has finished her PhD and I don't think she did 'set homework' at all. BUT she did 'a lot' of research + experiements though. If you don't come up with research and
Koing

Ph'D programs usually require the student to take classes. That's where the hmwks come in.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Koing

You get much homework on a PhD? My gf has finished her PhD and I don't think she did 'set homework' at all. BUT she did 'a lot' of research + experiements though. If you don't come up with research and
Koing

Ph'D programs usually require the student to take classes. That's where the hmwks come in.

Oh I see.

I guess it was different for my gf in England then. Most PhD positions in England are research and no class's as that is done in your Undergraduate.

But I guess the systems are different.

Koing

 

[Blastomyces]

Homework to so yourself is for 5th graders. When you're in higher education, it's more important to know how to work collaboratively. ANd most doctors know 95% of what they know from residency, not from med school. Believe me, I cant tell you most of what I learned there, but the only things I do on a day to day basis I learned in residency.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Tomato
One of my girl friends is in medical school, and she openly admits to me that if it weren't for two of her friends whom she cheats off regularly when it comes to homework and exams, she'd fail out of med school. She claims that EVERYONE cheats, and the only way anyone gets through med school is to cheat... she doesn't think it's a big deal at all, and her reasoning is "you learn everything you need to know through residency, not exams or homework".

My fiance is a computer science PhD student, and he says that almost all other PhD students work together on homework assignments and projects (even though this is explicitly against academic policy). He has friends in the CS program but not in any of his classes, and he does everything entirely on his own - homework, projects, studying for exams, etc. I feel bad seeing him work so hard and only pull off a B on assignments, missing only 2 or 3 out of 25 problems but ranking poorly because so many other students turned in homework that they've collaborated on/compared answers with. It just doesn't seem fair, but of course he isn't going to rat on anyone.

Is this the norm in grad school?

Just what we need. Doctors who cheated their way through med school...:roll:

Your friends suck.