Does current P4 support PC1066 533mHz RDRAM?

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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I'm dying to see the difference the PC1066 and PC1200 RDRAM make to the P4. I'm holding on to the brood of machine I have for now, but will be ready for a new machine come December-January. The Socket-478 sounds like it may be the real deal, although the Palomino looks great, too.

I want to know ASAP if this PC1066/1200 RDRAM is any difference maker.
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
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Well not really.

The P4 currently uses a 64bit 100Mhz QDR bus. Goes nicely with Rambus's 32bit 400Mhz DDR bus.

When the P4 moves up to a 133Mhz QDR (533Mhz effective) then it will go nicely with the PC1066 Rambus.

Likewise it would need another step up in FSB to match the PC1200 spec.

But the faster Rambus grades should help in overclocking.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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"I want to know ASAP..."

You probably won't know for another couple months.
 

fkloster

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Dec 16, 1999
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<< I'm dying to see the difference the PC1066 and PC1200 RDRAM make to the P4 >>



PC1200 RDRAM? Now thats what I'm talkin' about! All kidin' aside, I have mine runnin' for short periods of time @ 488mhz (aka 122 fsb) @ certain times of the year (winter) and were not far away from 533.
 

christoph83

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Mar 12, 2001
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I thought Intel was going to offer the 533 FSB around the time period that they shrunk the die from .18 to .13 which is an september-november timeframe. Although I maybe wrong.
 

fkloster

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Dec 16, 1999
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I still find it hard to believe that no one has announced any socket 478 platforms yet! I have been using socket 423 for 6 months now and socket 478 is still no where in sight :confused:
 

christoph83

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Mar 12, 2001
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Would they announce them that early? Were talking about 4-6 months before the 478 hits the market.
 

MadRat

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Oct 14, 1999
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The rumour is that they are going to produce 32-bit and 64-bit buses on the next generation. It almost sounded like PC1066 is on the 32-bit bus and PC1200 on the 64-bit bus. That would make PC1066 more like 8 channels of 66mHz than 4 of 133mHz, eh?
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Linky

I doubt we'll see wider RIMMs with the introduction of PC1066...the existing PC1066 documents point to 2.1GB/sec, suggesting a 16-bit bus.

The Electic article also stated:

<< The 16 bit, 32 bit, and 64 bit RIMM modules are expected to coexist and to ship into different segments of the market, from low-end server and workstation to mainstream and value desktop PC. >>

16-bit PC800 RIMMs already have nearly as many pins as 64-bit SDRAM...64-bit RIMMs and their motherboard implementations will probably initially be too expensive for the desktop.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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I thought the current RDRAM pinout was made to support 8-, 16- and 32-bit modules.
 

Sohcan

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Oct 10, 1999
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You may be right, but we're likely to hear rumors about a 32- or 64-bit RDRAM supporting chipset at least 6-12 months before its released.

In regards to your original question, I don't think PC1066 will be what makes or breaks Northwood's performance...RDRAM is said to be 85% bandwidth efficient, so the i850's 2.7GB/sec of effective bandwidth shouldn't be stressed for a bit, at least until the P4 ramps up beyond 3GHz (unless there are undisclosed features in Northwood that use more memory bandwidth *cough* SMT *cough* ;)).

As far as access time, there won't be much of a difference as far as the CPU is concerned. RDRAM reads two packets of 8 words at a time, so assuming:
1. it takes two FSB cycles for the memory controller to latch the address and control, and decode the control information.
2. RDRAM has a 20ns page access latency (according to Rambus)
3. on a medium-loaded RDRAM channel, the target chip is 1 foot from the memory controller (4ns round-trip electrical signal propogation)
4. after the data is parallelized in the memory controller, it takes one FSB cycle for the data to reach the CPU.

Thus, for PC800 on a 100MHz FSB, an estimate of the access time is:
10ns * 2 + 1.25ns * 8 * 2 + 20ns + 1.25ns * 8 + 4ns + 10ns = 84ns

For PC1066 on a 100MHz FSB, the access time is:
10ns * 2 + .9375ns * 8 * 2 + 20ns + .9375ns * 8 + 4ns + 10ns = 76.5ns

For PC1066 on a 133MHz FSB, the access time is:
7.5ns * 2 + .9375ns * 8 * 2 + 20ns + .9375ns * 8 + 4ns + 7.5ns = 69ns

For the P4 (Willamette), the L1 cache has a 2-cycle latency and average 90% hit-rate, and the L2 cache has a 7-cycle latency and 90% hit-rate (9% of all memory access go to L2). Assuming a 2GHz P4, the average memory access time (not including FP data, since it goes direct to L2) is:

For PC800 on a 100MHz FSB:
.9 * 2 + .09 * 7 + .01 * 168 = 4.11 cycles

For PC1066 on a 100MHz FSB:
.9 * 2 + .09 * 7 + .01 * 153 = 3.96 cycles (3.6% improvement)

For PC1066 on a 133MHz FSB:
.9 * 2 + .09 * 7 + .01 * 138 = 3.81 cycles (7.3% improvement)

This doesn't necessarily translate to a 7.3% improvement in performance, since the cache is pipelined and dual-ported, and speculative pre-fetch plays an important role.

I guess I'm kind of cynical about memory technology...as long as you have enough bandwidth, it doesn't play much of a role since 99% of accesses go to the cache. Intel and AMD are good at staying on top of required bandwidth for their processors...when they introduce a new step in memory technology, it's usually to ensure enough bandwidth for future processors, not to dramatically increase performance for what they currently have out. IMHO, the Holy Grail for x86 performance is branch prediction...branch misses account for around 1.5% of x86 instructions in programs, but attribute to a 30% loss in performance. The P4 has a good branch predictor (94%, compared to P3's 90%, Athlon's 92%, and K6's impressive 95%), but it's 19 cycle branch prediction penalty hurts performance.

If there's any mistakes in my math, point it out (there probably is).

BTW, can you guess who is at work and really bored? :D
 

AndyHui

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member<br>AT FAQ M
Oct 9, 1999
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Never a boring post from you, though, Sohcan :D
 

Texmaster

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Jun 5, 2001
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<<

<< I'm dying to see the difference the PC1066 and PC1200 RDRAM make to the P4 >>



PC1200 RDRAM? Now thats what I'm talkin' about! All kidin' aside, I have mine runnin' for short periods of time @ 488mhz (aka 122 fsb) @ certain times of the year (winter) and were not far away from 533.
>>




What board do you have? If its asus, you can lower the rambus speed and go even higher!