Does atheism allow for good and evil?

[thechick27]

I am agnostic (don't believe theres enough evidence to prove that a god exhists or does not exhist...basically in the middle between atheism and religion, for anyone who didnt know...) and the way I define what is "good" and "evil" is by morals. for example, most people agree that when you kill or rape someone, that you have done something "morally wrong", while being honest and helping out people and such is "morally right." I dont usually refer to someone who does "morally wrong" things as being "evil", but I dont think that they are very decent people either. Of course you can also get off into subjects such as pre-marital sex where different people have different beliefs about what is morally right and wrong in those situations, and the lines begin to blur a little. But thats probably another debate/subject thats better discussed in another topic! If you have any comments/questions about what I've said feel free to write me back, I like to hear different peoples opinion about this topic...all I ask is that you are respectful and not critical of my opinions, and I will be respectful of yours.

the chick

 

[thechick27]

sorry dullard I missed reading your post before I made my own. I totally agree tho

 

[zzzz]

good and evil are relative even for people who believe in god, as there are many gods.

 

[Jaylllo]

Just because you don't believe in god, doesn't mean there isn't good or evil.

If you lived in a biological oriented way. Sex == Good. Being burnt by fire == Bad.
Or +$$$ == Good, Getting fired == Bad.

Good/bad is pretty relative. For me, bad is anything that stands in my path. Good is everything beneficial and positive (to my interests anyway).
Anything that tries to burn me is bad.

Most religions are nothing more than a set of static ideals. A lot of the bad and good stem from ancient times. For example being chaste. Obviously before birth control, getting pregenant was terrible (I mean it still is now). But sex is OK because its pleasurable. So people can do so it without "risk".
Anyway, a lot of people can't accept the fact their life is a lifespan of a biological organism. Who wants to feel puny and mortal anyway?
Haha.

But I mean really, in our society the only good that should matter to you is bettering yourself, bettering your family, bettering your friends, and bettering your people.

Anyway, if there was a(-a) God(s) (at least a merciful one), I would've never existed. Or at least I'd died in one of my retardly fun but stupidly dangerous stunts by now.

I live on empirical evidence. And please, don't argue from nothing (basically proving or disproving something when there is no basis at all).

Just an opinion.

 

[xizor]

this thread's far too long for me to read, but if someone else hasn't said it:

read C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". Lewis was an Atheist until his own philsophizing convinved him God must exist. The book had an excellent logical reasoning about why Atheists cannot believe in Good and Evil IMO.

P.S. PM if you want to talk, don't bother replying, I wont see it

 

[Zepper]

One doesn't have to posit a god or gods to achieve the concepts of good and evil or morality as regards sentient entities. Whatever affects an entity's nature in a positive way is good to the entity, whatever affects the entity's nature in a negative way is evil.
. Since only sentient beings can hold these concepts, good, evil and morality are only relevant to mankind (the only sentient beings known to us), whose nature is distinguished by the double-edged ability to conceive in the abstract as well as the concrete.
. Perhaps the best example is the concept of perfection. Most of us can imagine, in a tenuous way, perfection. But only some come to accept the fact that perfection is not possible in the universe we inhabit. We can imagine perfectly straight lines, perfect cubes, perfect circles, perfect spheres and even perfect beings, societies, etc. But there are not now, nor have there ever been any of those things in the known universe. We can hold the concepts in our minds, but cannot find or create them as physical entities anywhere in our universe.
. One of the great dichotomies of the human condition...

.bh. (c) Bill Hill, 8/9/2003. Rel.1, Rev.5.
:moon:
Yes, Virginia, this is all mine.

 

[glen]

Ok so there is this magical being that exists that knows exactly what is good and evil... but we cannot communicate with it. How does that help the scenario?

People knowing that good and evil exist is different from knowing what is good and evil. For example, I know there are laws in France, but I don't know what they are.

Furthur more, you are getting side tracted.

If Zulu god exists, and his moral system of good and evil.
then:
Assume everyone one Earth is a scientologist.
This changes nothing the Zulu moral system is unknow, but it is still true.

Assume everyone is an atheist.
This changes nothing the Zulu moral system is unknow, but it is still true.

Assume everyone is agnostic.
This changes nothing the Zulu moral system is unknow, but it is still true.

Assume everyone is Jewish.
This changes nothing the Zulu moral system is unknow, but it is still true.

 

[Zepper]

zulu moral system... true does not equal exists - zulu moral system exists, but is not necessarily true.
.bh.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Zepper
zulu moral system... true does not equal exists - zulu moral system exists, but is not necessarily true.
.bh.

True, but that was not my point.
Skace said "Ok so there is this magical being that exists that knows exactly what is good and evil... but we cannot communicate with it. How does that help the scenario?"
I am showing that humans being aware of a moral system has no effect on the existance of a moral system.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Zepper
One doesn't have to posit a god or gods to achieve the concepts of good and evil or morality as regards sentient entities. Whatever affects an entity's nature in a positive way is good to the entity, whatever affects the entity's nature in a negative way is evil.

Sorry, but any young pup can blow a huge hole in that statement. All you have to do is ask two questions:

What do you define as a positive effect, and conversely a negative effect? Next, where did the ideas for what is positive and what is negative come from? See? You don't have an answer because you'll be led in circles. Thus somewhere there must lie an absolute authority in order for good and evil to exist.

As an atheist, I say atheism does not allow for good and evil. It's all relativism, bounded by centuries and centuries of seeding of what is allowable in human society. Actually this is perhaps the only thing I think religion has been useful for to humanity...maybe. Maybe religion translated it all wrong and we're all screwed when the afterlife comes along.

I do have a question I think will be useful for this debate, though: If the oft-mentioned cannibal never receives the word about religion in his lifetime, is he truly committing evil? Doesn't innocence preclude the presence of evil? I suppose the logical answer is that committing evil acts within one's lifetime does not mean you aren't innocent in spirit, you just didn't know any better...

 

[glen]

Sure, if a magical god exists, and wills that we don't eat eachother for food, the cannible commits evil.
However, neither the cannible society nor god will likely punish him for it.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: glen
Sure, if a magical god exists, and wills that we don't eat each other for food, the cannibal commits evil.
However, neither the cannibal society nor God will likely punish him for it.

Ah, well it's nice to meet a sensible theist.

Next question is worse though: What makes God define things as good or evil, or is that all in regards to the understanding the universe thing that we don't quite grasp yet?

 

[glen]

Thank you.
But, I never said in this thread what I believe in much less that I was a Theist.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: waylman
society, not god, determines good and evil. Heard of laws?

I think most Philosopher's agree that.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth

Originally posted by: waylman
society, not god, determines good and evil. Heard of laws?

I think most Philosopher's agree that.

Nope.
Most would tend to agree that atheism does not allow for good an evil.
That does not mean that god exists, doesn't exist, or even say what most philosphers think about God's existance.
It simply means that most philosophers agree that atheism does not allow for good and evil.