Does anyone think the true sports cars or Supercars will ever die?

[Atty]

With gas prices the way they are, oil being more and more difficult to remove from the ground, and environmental nut jobs being born every other second, what life do true sports cars (not "sporty" cars with 1.6L ecoboost engines and a uncomfortable suspension, not that they aren't fun or useful, no hate) and supercars have left?

I'm 21 years old, I love cars second only to my current girlfriend, and am afraid that by the time I am old enough to afford the real ones they will all be extinct. I know that when I graduate with my degree I could probably get some used M3 and I'd love it as much as anything in the world or something else similarly sporty, and it'll be all I ever need. Though, will there ever be another V12 Vantage from Aston? I saw one pull into a Panera Bread the other day after lunch with my girlfriend, I stopped her dead and let it pass in front of us and just drooled, she thought I was mad but I was over joyed. I do the same thing when the Doctor at my gym drives his GT-R and lets me listen as he starts it up and destroys our precious non-renewable resources for my enjoyment, or when a F430, 458, or 599 pulls out of the Ferrari dealership I pass by weekly on my way out of Orlando. But will there still be cars like that in the future?

Getting past what I'll assume is a TL;DR for most of you, I'm honestly worried that in ten years there won't be any big supercars that we can all get excited for. No more GT-Rs, Veryons, V12 Astons, V8 Ferrari's, 7.0L V10 Lambos, etc. We'll all have to make due with rubbish dual clutch transmission that are slower to shift than someone without arms driving a manual because they give us 7 more MPG when driven by the average driver, most of which who can't drive. And our engines will be smaller than the drinks we fit into our cup holders and be monitored to make sure they aren't going over the 55MPH speed limit.

I'll end there with this rant but I want to hear what you all think. Do you think the sport cars or supercars we've come to know and love will ever die?

 

[HeXen]

supply and demand or a rich man gets what a rich man wants.

 

[DaTT]

Do you think those who can afford to buy a supercar has ever once in his life complained about the price of gas?

 

[KentState]

I have a feeling that alternative fuel super cars will be the rage in the next 10 years. The electric motors are coming along, but we need a way to increase battery storage without adding weight and space.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Do you think those who can afford to buy a supercar has ever once in his life complained about the price of gas?

Wealth and frugality are not mutually exclusive properties.

 

[darkswordsman17]

99% of people will never be able to afford one, so I don't know what you're worrying about there. I'd be more worried about being able to afford food and housing and health care than worrying that there won't be a Veyron for me to buy. Actually I'd be more worried that there will be a major war or the Yellowstone Caldera erupting, or [insert world ending event].

There will always be fast vehicles. I don't know why people think that's going to change.

Also, WTF? Slow dual clutch transmissions? You do realize they're the main reason why supercars have dropped about half a second on their 0-60 times in the past few years, right?

Who cares what size the engine is or how it makes the power? Power is power, and if its a 4 cylinder turbo making 1000hp, or an electric or fuel cell setup doing the same, then it'll still be fast.

For someone who's 21 you sure sound like an atypical old curmudgeon. Stop taking Jeremy Clarkson's word as gospel.

 

[ponyo]

99% of people will never be able to afford one, so I don't know what you're worrying about there. I'd be more worried about being able to afford food and housing and health care than worrying that there won't be a Veyron for me to buy. Actually I'd be more worried that there will be a major war or the Yellowstone Caldera erupting, or [insert world ending event].

There will always be fast vehicles. I don't know why people think that's going to change.

Also, WTF? Slow dual clutch transmissions? You do realize they're the main reason why supercars have dropped about half a second on their 0-60 times in the past few years, right?

Who cares what size the engine is or how it makes the power? Power is power, and if its a 4 cylinder turbo making 1000hp, or an electric or fuel cell setup doing the same, then it'll still be fast.

For someone who's 21 you sure sound like an atypical old curmudgeon. Stop taking Jeremy Clarkson's word as gospel.

:awe: /thread

 

[Atty]

Also, WTF? Slow dual clutch transmissions? You do realize they're the main reason why supercars have dropped about half a second on their 0-60 times in the past few years, right?

I'm talking about the cheap ones that are being thrown into low end cars. I've heard nothing but woes from people test driving or owning newer cars with dual clutch tranmissions. I'm not talking about the ones in Ferrari's or Lambo's. That point was more in the way of complaining that true manual transmissions going away and in their place cars are being given paddle shifters.

I'd much rather my DD be a Civic, Focus, Fiesta, etc, if it has a manual transmission rather than the cheap DCT with added paddle shifters for a "manumatic" touch. They aren't the F1 inspired and hardened ones you'll prefer in your E92 M3 or you get in your Ferrari. They don't shift faster than you can blink, they are cheap imitations that make you shift slower than with a real MT and generally just annoy you, especially when they become the only option.

 

[exdeath]

Who cares what size the engine is or how it makes the power? Power is power, and if its a 4 cylinder turbo making 1000hp, or an electric or fuel cell setup doing the same, then it'll still be fast.

Because whatever technology makes 1000 HP from a 4 cyl will make 4000 HP with a 7.0 L V12 and thus be better still. And it will be smoother, more liveable, more reliable, and not as fussy.

Additionally you'll be making that power on far less cylinder pressure and it will run on readily available 91 octane piss water instead of unicorn blood.

 

[jlee]

There's a huge difference between supercar and sports car - a Mk1 MR2 is a sports car in pretty much any sense of the word, and it has a 1.6l (maybe supercharged depending on year) 4 banger.

But no, I don't think they'll die. There's too many people who are willing to spend the money for them regardless. Which is a good thing.

 

[coxmaster]

I'm talking about the cheap ones that are being thrown into low end cars. I've heard nothing but woes from people test driving or owning newer cars with dual clutch tranmissions. I'm not talking about the ones in Ferrari's or Lambo's. That point was more in the way of complaining that true manual transmissions going away and in their place cars are being given paddle shifters.

I'm interested in what these cars are specifically.. I drive a "low end" VW with the DSG and it *supposedly* has an 8ms shift time.. so I guess that must be too slow for you

 

[MotF Bane]

Because whatever technology makes 1000 HP from a 4 cyl will make 4000 HP with a 7.0 L V12 and thus be better still. And it will be smoother, more liveable, more reliable, and not as fussy.

Additionally you'll be making that power on far less cylinder pressure and it will run on readily available 91 octane piss water instead of unicorn blood.

And it'll sound a hell of a lot better as a bonus.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I'm interested in what these cars are specifically.. I drive a "low end" VW with the DSG and it *supposedly* has an 8ms shift time.. so I guess that must be too slow for you

I'm wondering if hes driven a poweshift/DSG transmission or is just repeating what top gear says. My DSG is smooooooooooth as butter, I can't drive normal autos without complaining how slow/harsh they shift now.

 

[exdeath]

I'm talking about the cheap ones that are being thrown into low end cars. I've heard nothing but woes from people test driving or owning newer cars with dual clutch tranmissions. I'm not talking about the ones in Ferrari's or Lambo's. That point was more in the way of complaining that true manual transmissions going away and in their place cars are being given paddle shifters.

I'd much rather my DD be a Civic, Focus, Fiesta, etc, if it has a manual transmission rather than the cheap DCT with added paddle shifters for a "manumatic" touch. They aren't the F1 inspired and hardened ones you'll prefer in your E92 M3 or you get in your Ferrari. They don't shift faster than you can blink, they are cheap imitations that make you shift slower than with a real MT and generally just annoy you, especially when they become the only option.

Don't confuse real DCT/SMG, which are traditional manual transmissions with electro-hydraulic powered clutches and shift forks, with fake manual modes added to normal automatics with a torque converter and planetary gears.

The slow ones you are talking about are nothing more than regular automatic slush boxes with paddles or +/- added to the shifter. They are still automatics with P R N D 2 1, not "automated manual gearboxes".

In either case, shift characteristics are completely computer controlled and can be modified to be as fast and as harsh as you'd like them to be. For reasons that should be obvious, the aggressiveness of the shifting is kept on the conservative side for cheap run of the mill A-B commuter box low end cars that you specifically point out. You don't want 16 yr old Joe Blow breaking the softer motor mounts or his mom complaining about harshness in her brand new Maxima.

I love manuals like the next enthusiast, but as long I still have a true manual gearbox with a hard physical linkage that simply doesn't have a clutch pedal, I can't complain too much. I mean, I'm not the slightest bit inconvenienced by the lack of a timing advance lever in my dash.

 

[JCH13]

The true sports car - the vehicle that is built for the enjoyment of driving - will never die because I think that there will always be people who enjoy driving.


Maybe in a few hundred years we'll have sports jet packs or sports spacecraft, but the purist enjoyment of motion will still be there even the vehicles are not powered by gasoline and roll and four tires.

 

[coxmaster]

I'm wondering if hes driven a poweshift/DSG transmission or is just repeating what top gear says. My DSG is smooooooooooth as butter, I can't drive normal autos without complaining how slow/harsh they shift now.

My point exactly.. My DSG is amazingly smooth and quick when it is working 100% correctly

 

[KDKPSJ]

'Dual Clutch' and 'Slow' shouldn't be in a same sentence.

 

[punjabiplaya]

if it progresses as we all want it to progress, it won't be determined by engine displacement, just how powerful the electric motor is

Chassis refinement, handling, etc... will forever live on. The power source may change. As long as there are people with money that like cars, they will never go away.

POWERRRRRR

 

[The Boston Dangler]

99% of people will never be able to afford one, so I don't know what you're worrying about there. I'd be more worried about being able to afford food and housing and health care than worrying that there won't be a Veyron for me to buy. Actually I'd be more worried that there will be a major war or the Yellowstone Caldera erupting, or [insert world ending event].

There will always be fast vehicles. I don't know why people think that's going to change.

Also, WTF? Slow dual clutch transmissions? You do realize they're the main reason why supercars have dropped about half a second on their 0-60 times in the past few years, right?

Who cares what size the engine is or how it makes the power? Power is power, and if its a 4 cylinder turbo making 1000hp, or an electric or fuel cell setup doing the same, then it'll still be fast.

For someone who's 21 you sure sound like an atypical old curmudgeon. Stop taking Jeremy Clarkson's word as gospel.

swish!

 

[MotF Bane]

I wish there were a lot more cars with DSG/DCT instead of common automatics.

 

[Doppel]

They will go down in number. They'll not die, there will be still some available even well into the future but I am positive that performance in general will become increasingly less meaningful to people and inevitably that will shrink the number of sports and exotic cars. Even ignoring fuel costs we will have more automation of driving over time and more monitoring of driving behavior (e.g. automatic radar detectors and GPS-based insurance premiums).

GPS tracking of movement to impact insurance rates has already been tried. When it's put in place and naturally grows it will hack out at the knees the performance market, just that technology alone will totally change the landscape from people occasionally sprinting their Corvette up to 110 mph to driving like your grandmother.

 

[exdeath]

Yay more shit to hack and disable.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Yay more shit to hack and disable.

1.21 gigawatts?

 

[SparkyJJO]

Because whatever technology makes 1000 HP from a 4 cyl will make 4000 HP with a 7.0 L V12 and thus be better still. And it will be smoother, more liveable, more reliable, and not as fussy.

Additionally you'll be making that power on far less cylinder pressure and it will run on readily available 91 octane piss water instead of unicorn blood.

And don't forget torque, something that 4 bangers usually are lacking on and people forget about. Especially ricers and their silly HP/L nonsense. I don't care if you can get 500HP out of a 4 banger, does it have any torque worth mentioning? If not, that 500HP is just numbers on paper and virtually useless.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Because whatever technology makes 1000 HP from a 4 cyl will make 4000 HP with a 7.0 L V12 and thus be better still. And it will be smoother, more liveable, more reliable, and not as fussy.

Additionally you'll be making that power on far less cylinder pressure and it will run on readily available 91 octane piss water instead of unicorn blood.

No it won't, and that would be pointless as the extra power would be completely useless. Of course, again, I don't care how it does it, and if its better/easier/more efficient to make it with a V8, then great. If not, then so what. Likewise, if they can make the car look better or be more usable by utilizing a 4 cylinder's smaller packaging constraints, then I'd be all for that as well.

And don't forget torque, something that 4 bangers usually are lacking on and people forget about. Especially ricers and their silly HP/L nonsense. I don't care if you can get 500HP out of a 4 banger, does it have any torque worth mentioning? If not, that 500HP is just numbers on paper and virtually useless.

4 cylinder cars can make torque just the same. Its not rocket science here, the same stuff that is used to make torque on V8s works on 4 cylinders. Look at just about any of the turbo 4s made in the past 2 decades and you'll find they rarely had issues with torque. Plus take that new BMW 4 making 260lb/ft at 1250 RPM.

Also, since torque is the forte of electric motors.

Even the aural aspects can be managed. I'd love a car that could give me the gut punching thump of a drag car (or hell, how about canons or the ridiculous depths of a good pipe organ) and then build that from a good rumble lower to the pitched shriek of high RPMs. Then I could make it whisper quiet if I need/want to. Plus if some jackass in his Mustang, Civic or glass-packed pos 20 year old pickup is constantly going around revving his car up like a douche I can queue up a frequency that overrides the noise his makes.

I'm talking about the cheap ones that are being thrown into low end cars. I've heard nothing but woes from people test driving or owning newer cars with dual clutch tranmissions. I'm not talking about the ones in Ferrari's or Lambo's. That point was more in the way of complaining that true manual transmissions going away and in their place cars are being given paddle shifters.

I'd much rather my DD be a Civic, Focus, Fiesta, etc, if it has a manual transmission rather than the cheap DCT with added paddle shifters for a "manumatic" touch. They aren't the F1 inspired and hardened ones you'll prefer in your E92 M3 or you get in your Ferrari. They don't shift faster than you can blink, they are cheap imitations that make you shift slower than with a real MT and generally just annoy you, especially when they become the only option.

Well what does that have to do with supercars?