Does anyone really understand Office for Business licensing?

[Kaido]

I do a variety of computer-related stuff for businesses, including purchasing & installing software. Sometimes it's for small business (under 10 people) & sometimes it's for larger small businesses ("midsize", say 100 to 300 people). I'm trying to wrap my brain around how Office for Business licensing works for the 2013 version. It makes no sense to me. So let's start out with the core software - Microsoft Home & Business 2013, which includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, and Outlook (the basic Business version doesn't include Publisher or Access). The license terms right on their product page are "For a single PC - Install Office on one PC at a time. Commercial use rights."

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy-microsoft-office-home-business-2013-FX102918379.aspx

So let's start out with off-the-shelf pricing. Amazon sells the "1 PC/ 1 User Download" version for $219:

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Offi...dp/B00B1TGMIS/

I believe this used to be the CD purchase version up until just recently. This is the product that comes up when you search Amazon (or Staples) for "Office Business 2013". So - it was a CD product, now is a Download product. Great. Except that you can also buy the Keycard version, which was the original downloadable, no-CD option. For $169. Which is $50 less. For the same product (both of which are now download-only). Here's a screenshot of both:

http://i.imgur.com/BzOrO6g.jpg

Now, before I get more into pricing, let's discuss registering the Keycard version. With the Keycard version, you are required to create a Microsoft Account online & punch in the license code, which will then tie the license to your account. So then you can just login, download the installer from the cloud, and be good to go:

https://office.microsoft.com/MyAccount.aspx

The problem is, it typically doesn't list the license keys. For example, in this business account, I have two Office for Business licenses, but you can't tell which one to download:

http://i.imgur.com/v3Eg6f3.jpg

In this one, one license key is shown, but the rest are not:

http://i.imgur.com/fQlYrK9.jpg

There's also no way to check activation status, so it's a fairly limited system because you can't verify which link to download if you need to do an OS re-install & put Office back on a machine. It doesn't make any sense to sell a Business version that requires online activation, but not be able to manage it. You can tie it to a specific user (ex. create a Microsoft account for the user, activate the license against them, and only have a single download link available - and you keep a record of what that key is for future re-installs), but that's a crummy method because then you're screwed if the person leaves the company (you have to keep on using their account, or changing the primary email & going through all that jazz for re-registration).

So anyway, back to the financial discussion. In the past, you would buy a Volume license for larger projects. Those are called Open Licenses now and have a bit more flexibility as far as being able to be installed on Terminal Servers & such. And of course, there are tiers within that system as well:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/licensing-options/open-license.aspx

But anyway, a basic Business Open License is $369:

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Microsoft-Office-Standard-2013-license/2894649.aspx

So now we're jumping up from $159 to $369 for the same product, just with better management abilities & some additional features like software assurance for upgrading. So that's a $210 premium per license for the same product, which isn't something everyone really needs depending on the size of the business.

Then there's a new system called Office 365, which is essentially a subscription to Office, with some added cloud services. This is sort of the next-level to Volume/Open licensing that Microsoft wants to shove everyone into, because it keeps the revenue stream coming in on a monthly basis. Each user costs $15 a month, or $150 annually if you pay ahead (reduces the monthly average to $12.50):

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/b...siness-premium-office-online-FX103037625.aspx

So basically, you can get a year's worth of Office for $150, or you can simply buy an Office Business 2013 Keycard for $159, which is only $9 more. Now, that's pricing for smaller businesses with a max of 25 users. If you need more (up to 300 users), Office 365 for Midsize Businesses runs $15 per user per month; the Enterprise E3 subscription offers unlimited users for $20 per user per month. There's a better pricing comparison for business usage here:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/b...ffice-365-for-business-plans-FX104051403.aspx

I'm not licensing expert, so I figured I'd throw it out there & ask: what am I missing here? This is so convoluted it's making my brain hurt. To recap:

1. Office 2013 Business "Download": $219 (previously a CD version, I believe)
2. Office 2013 Business "Keycard": $169 (...also download, so what's the point of #1 now?)
3. Office 2013 Business Open License: $369 (previously "Volume License", note that tiers are available)
4. Office 2013 Business "365 Subscription": $150 annually (minimum - more if you need more than 25 seats)

I like the management options of the Open License; for purchased (not subscribed) licenses, it's really "the way" to go. I talked to a Microsoft rep about managing the download versions and they said that having multiple licenses under the Microsoft Account isn't really the way it's supposed to be used, but wasn't able to explain why you could buy a Business license & not manage it easily, let alone have two versions available for sale (Download version + Keycard version). So apparently it's so complicated they have no idea how it works either

 

[Dahak]

I hate the licensing in 2013 as well but let me try to help you out, this is is the way I see it.

1. Office 2013 Business "Download" -- this is akin to the old Retail/CD vesion

2. Office 2013 Business "Keycard" -- This is sort of the replacement for the oem editions, it started with office 2007 and what it is also used for if the machine came pre-loaded with office you can purchase the keycard and you just punch that in, and it would be up to the customer to make a "Backup Media".. essentially download the software and make a cd

3.Office 2013 Business Open License: -- now depending on the tier, most of the ones I deal with, you get access to Office Pro Plus, so you get all the other office apps as well. Also with this you get access to the next version as well.

So for example you got the subscription this year, you get Office 2013 Pro Plus and if they release say Office 2014 within your subscription you can install that if you choose.

4. Office 2013 Business "356" Have not touched it.

Oh and to add another thing to it, even with the keycard versions, you have to have a ms account for them to activate as you mentioned, but you can have up to 5 per account.

So for another customer of ours that purchased 4 new machines, and 4 keycard verions, created a ms account on their generic email address and activated them with that

 

[Kaido]

Oh and to add another thing to it, even with the keycard versions, you have to have a ms account for them to activate as you mentioned, but you can have up to 5 per account.

FWIW, the account I'm working on today has 13 licenses of "Office Home and Business 2013" (keycard version) loaded up in their generic IT (it@whatever.com) Microsoft Account. I can't screenshot the whole thing, but here's the basic idea:

http://i.imgur.com/6xYVWUw.jpg

Anyway, it's not a big deal for fresh installs (by that I mean, punching in a new license on office.com/setup & downloading the installer to install right away), since it downloads the installer right away with the license key bundled in, but I've had issues with re-using that installer down the road. For starters, there's no way to deactivate Office. Previously, since they didn't have deactivation, uninstalled & rebooting (while connected to the Internet), would send the deactivation signal to the Microsoft servers. I've tested this myself with Office 2010, because it will whine at you for multiple activations on the same machine otherwise.

Also, there is no way to change the key. So if you download the wrong installer, it will block you from activating it (1 key to 1 PC), but not give you an easy way to change it. Usually you could do something like go into Add/Remove Programs, right-click on the Office install, and change the key from there (instead of uninstalling), but that's not an option on 2013. I also haven't had any luck using the "Run" system:

cscript "C: \Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15\OSPP.VBS" /inpkey:yourkeygoeshere

So even if I save the installer with the bundled key (which is a small download - it just contains the authorization for that key & then kicks off the full download when you install it), that's no guarantee that it will work at a re-install. I'm not sure if it detects the installer based on date or what, but it somehow knows it's either older or has been moved to a different drive than where it was originally downloaded & wants me to re-login to my account. But I can't change the key! So then you have to do a full un-install & try downloading a different link from your Microsoft Account. They don't seem to go in order of date necessarily either because I have other products in some of them, such as Microsoft Project, and thing just don't seem to line up right. So I have no good way of managing keycard installs.

Life was a lot easier with the CD keys!

 

[Mushkins]

It's intentionally obtuse. They want you to either move to a business 365 subscription, or open licensing.

I'm not sure about Office, but basic Windows Open Licenses grant imaging rights for your whole organization even if you only buy one.

For example, I bought a Win 8.1 Pro Open License. It comes with downgrade rights and imaging rights. So that single Open key they give me for that, I can use the *SAME* key for *all* of the PCs in our organization. I make one base Windows 7 pro image using that key and deploy to every new PC we buy. The catch is they all have to have qualifying OEM licensing that matches the same version as the image. So I still need to buy the OEM Windows 7 Pro preinstalled by Dell when I order hardware.

It's only if I wanted to actually upgrade the base Win7 Pro to Windows 8.1 on all those machines that I would need to buy an Open license for every one of them.

I've yet to use open licensing for Office, but assuming it works the same way you can buy the single Open key, install on ALL your PCs using that one key, purchase the requisite underlying licenses (aka enough of those keycards to cover all your installs) and literally toss them in the closet. Don't activate them, or tie them to microsoft accounts, or anything. Dont even open them, just toss em in the closet.

 

[Kaido]

1. Office 2013 Business "Download" -- this is akin to the old Retail/CD vesion

2. Office 2013 Business "Keycard" -- This is sort of the replacement for the oem editions, it started with office 2007 and what it is also used for if the machine came pre-loaded with office you can purchase the keycard and you just punch that in, and it would be up to the customer to make a "Backup Media".. essentially download the software and make a cd

I'd be curious to try a Download version (replacement of CD version). I've used the CD version & I've used the Keycard version; I assume the Download version is exactly the same as the Keycard version in terms of having to create a Microsoft Account to tie it into their cloud-based download syste. The catch is that it's $50 more per license to try that out. That's also what bugs me about the Open License...I can literally buy 2 keycard licenses & go out to lunch with the leftover money for the price of one Open License. So aside from simplified central management & software assurance (which is kind of bogus to me, because then why not just go with Office 365 for a far cheaper price?), it doesn't make financial sense to get the Open License for businesses who "just want to use Office".

 

[Kaido]

It's intentionally obtuse. They want you to either move to a business 365 subscription, or open licensing.

I'm not sure about Office, but basic Windows Open Licenses grant imaging rights for your whole organization even if you only buy one.

For example, I bought a Win 8.1 Pro Open License. It comes with downgrade rights and imaging rights. So that single Open key they give me for that, I can use the *SAME* key for *all* of the PCs in our organization. I make one base Windows 7 pro image using that key and deploy to every new PC we buy. The catch is they all have to have qualifying OEM licensing that matches the same version as the image. So I still need to buy the OEM Windows 7 Pro preinstalled by Dell when I order hardware.

It's only if I wanted to actually install Windows 8.1 on all those machines that I would need to buy an Open license for every one of them.

I've yet to use open licensing for Office, but assuming it works the same way you can buy the single Open key, install on ALL your PCs using that one key, purchase the requisite underlying licenses (aka enough of those keycards to cover all your installs) and literally toss them in the closet. Don't activate them, or tie them to microsoft accounts, or anything. Dont even open them, just toss em in the closet.

Yeah, Open Licensing is nice because of that, especially for server stuff like Terminal Server where you can reinstall a server, pop into your account, and setup all your stuff easily via the web. That's cool. But a lot of companies don't really have that level of functionality. Some places I consult for don't even have a central server, or have a single server for everything, and the difference of a $170 keycard (or $220 CD) vs. a $370 Open License (when bought on piecemeal, as a lot of smaller businesses do) is a pretty big deal for their annual IT budget.

For example, if you have 30 users, then 30 keycards will cost you $5100. 30 Open Licenses will cost you $11,100 to get the same basic level of functionality (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook), which is a $6,000 price difference. Trying to justify Open Licenses, even with Software Assurance, to small business owners (at the price difference of $6,000 in this example) can be difficult vs. just buying a CD due to the price jump. Even buying the (now older) CD versions is still a $4,400 cost difference over Open Licenses. And Software Assurance is a funny thing because Microsoft only releases new Office versions every 2 to 4 years, so for literally more than twice the cost of a keycard, you can either buy an Open License, or just buy the keycard for say 2013 and then in a couple years buy the keycard for 2015 and STILL be saving money.

 

[Mushkins]

Yeah, Open Licensing is nice because of that, especially for server stuff like Terminal Server where you can reinstall a server, pop into your account, and setup all your stuff easily via the web. That's cool. But a lot of companies don't really have that level of functionality. Some places I consult for don't even have a central server, or have a single server for everything, and the difference of a $170 keycard (or $220 CD) vs. a $370 Open License (when bought on piecemeal, as a lot of smaller businesses do) is a pretty big deal for their annual IT budget.

For example, if you have 30 users, then 30 keycards will cost you $5100. 30 Open Licenses will cost you $11,100 to get the same basic level of functionality (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook), which is a $6,000 price difference. Trying to justify Open Licenses, even with Software Assurance, to small business owners (at the price difference of $6,000 in this example) can be difficult vs. just buying a CD due to the price jump. Even buying the (now older) CD versions is still a $4,400 cost difference over Open Licenses. And Software Assurance is a funny thing because Microsoft only releases new Office versions every 2 to 4 years, so for literally more than twice the cost of a keycard, you can either buy an Open License, or just buy the keycard for say 2013 and then in a couple years buy the keycard for 2015 and STILL be saving money.

MS Licensing is confusing like that, but you missed what I said.

You're not buying Open licensing for Office for *everyone*. You're buying a *single* seat, for the imaging rights.

So you buy one Office 2013volume license for $370.
Then you buy 29 Office 2013 keycard installs and *dont use them* for $4930.
Then you install Office 2013 with the volume license key on all 30 PCs.
Your total buy-in for the centralized management and imaging rights is an extra $200, not $6000. You don't need to purchase the additional Software Assurance either, the base license already contains downgrade rights and imaging rights. All SA does is give you the new version for free when you want to upgrade.

As long as the version of Office you install matches the version you bought keycards for (Home and Business to Home and Business, etc), this is 100% valid and legitimate licensing.

The only catch is that Open licensing uses cloud-based activation unless you have a server you can do local authentication through. The cloud activation has an activation limit, so every 20 or so installs you need to call up microsoft to get another 20 installs (no cost). This is specifically designed for small businesses that might not have a server.

 

[Kaido]

MS Licensing is confusing like that, but you missed what I said.

You're not buying Open licensing for Office for *everyone*. You're buying a *single* seat, for the imaging rights.

So you buy one Office 2013volume license for $370.
Then you buy 29 Office 2013 keycard installs and *dont use them* for $4930.
Then you install Office 2013 with the volume license key on all 30 PCs.
Your total buy-in for the centralized management and imaging rights is an extra $200, not $6000. You don't need to purchase the additional Software Assurance either, the base license already contains downgrade rights and imaging rights. All SA does is give you the new version for free when you want to upgrade.

As long as the version of Office you install matches the version you bought keycards for (Home and Business to Home and Business, etc), this is 100% valid and legitimate licensing.

The only catch is that Open licensing uses cloud-based activation unless you have a server you can do local authentication through. The cloud activation has an activation limit, so every 20 or so installs you need to call up microsoft to get another 20 installs (no cost). This is specifically designed for small businesses that might not have a server.

Oh okay, that clears things up a bit then: you only have to buy a single Open License for the site, then individual users can be piggybacked off that using keycard licenses. I've been trying to figure out the legal-ese in terms of authorizing individual users, so that helps a lot, thanks! You mentioned having to call MS for every ~20 licenses:

1. So is that good for virtually unlimited licenses? (technically-speaking)

2. For the server-based portion, does it pull & activate licenses based on a purchased pool size, or how does that work if you use the keycard version? Is it a little standalone license activation server or something?

 

[Mushkins]

Not a problem, Microsoft Licensing is a huge headache, especially for smaller organizations. To answer your questions:

1. It is, they restrict the cloud/internet activation to either 15 or 20 activations to prevent open keys leaking outside of your organization. That way if your key ends up on the internet and 200000 people try to activate with it, it doesn't work. As far as i've ever heard, MS does not limit the amount of times you can call them for another set of activations, it's just kind of a pain to have to do.

2. If you *do* have a server, you'd want to install the KMS (key management service) on it. You put in the enterprise/open key you have for the product and IIRC you need to tweak the configuration of the workstation installs to activate via KMS instead of internet. The KMS server authenticates the key with microsoft, and your workstations authenticate installs with the KMS server instead of dialing out. Like User CALs, beyond that you're on the honor system. That open key will activate 100 times or 1000 times with the KMS. Only during an audit would you need to dig those paper keys out of the closet for anything.

The catch with KMS is that there's a *minimum* activation requirement that varies based on product. For Windows OS it's 25 activations, Server OSes are 5 activations, and I dont know what Office is off the top of my head. The KMS server will hold onto authentication attempts until it meets the threshold for that product before it will activate (there's a grace period as a safety net). Once it hits the authentication requirement, it authenticates them all at once. If you're already over the number (ex adding machine number 26 to the network), it just activates instantly. All products will reach out to the KMS server for re-activation I believe every 180 days.

 

[Kaido]

Not a problem, Microsoft Licensing is a huge headache, especially for smaller organizations. To answer your questions:

1. It is, they restrict the cloud/internet activation to either 15 or 20 activations to prevent open keys leaking outside of your organization. That way if your key ends up on the internet and 200000 people try to activate with it, it doesn't work. As far as i've ever heard, MS does not limit the amount of times you can call them for another set of activations, it's just kind of a pain to have to do.

2. If you *do* have a server, you'd want to install the KMS (key management service) on it. You put in the enterprise/open key you have for the product and IIRC you need to tweak the configuration of the workstation installs to activate via KMS instead of internet. The KMS server authenticates the key with microsoft, and your workstations authenticate installs with the KMS server instead of dialing out. Like User CALs, beyond that you're on the honor system. That open key will activate 100 times or 1000 times with the KMS. Only during an audit would you need to dig those paper keys out of the closet for anything.

The catch with KMS is that there's a *minimum* activation requirement that varies based on product. For Windows OS it's 25 activations, Server OSes are 5 activations, and I dont know what Office is off the top of my head. The KMS server will hold onto authentication attempts until it meets the threshold for that product before it will activate (there's a grace period as a safety net). Once it hits the authentication requirement, it authenticates them all at once. If you're already over the number (ex adding machine number 26 to the network), it just activates instantly. All products will reach out to the KMS server for re-activation I believe every 180 days.

Thanks, I'll have to type this up in my wiki at some point once I get it all worked out It's starting to make sense, I just wish they clearly explained it on their website - it'd only take a simple 1-page FAQ to get it all sorted out, even though the whole thing is pretty backwards. As long as the keycard "authorization" system is legal, that sounds like a pretty good way to go...user has a need, install it, order the card, chuck it in storage for audits. Super easy!

So how does Software Assurance work if you only purchase a single Open License & then use keycards? Does SA & the other features only apply if you buy an Open License per user?

Also, does the 8.1 Open give you downgrade rights to 7 Pro? I'll have to investigate that as well. That would be convenient for places that have unknown & intermittent growth rates...

 

[Kaido]

The catch with KMS is that there's a *minimum* activation requirement that varies based on product. For Windows OS it's 25 activations, Server OSes are 5 activations, and I dont know what Office is off the top of my head. The KMS server will hold onto authentication attempts until it meets the threshold for that product before it will activate (there's a grace period as a safety net). Once it hits the authentication requirement, it authenticates them all at once. If you're already over the number (ex adding machine number 26 to the network), it just activates instantly. All products will reach out to the KMS server for re-activation I believe every 180 days.

Do you know if they still use MAK for 2013? Not sure if MKS has overtaken everything or what. Cornell has a nice starting point for KMS:

http://www.it.cornell.edu/services/software_licensing/howto/kms-server-main.cfm

Including a KMS activation timetable:

http://www.it.cornell.edu/services/software_licensing/howto/kms-timetable.cfm

Official MS docs:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dd197314.aspx

 

[Dahak]

Yes they still use MAK, actually that's how we do our installs for our Open Value customers

 

[Kaido]

Yes they still use MAK, actually that's how we do our installs for our Open Value customers

So it seems like we have a few options:

1. Individual license (keycard, download, CD, preloaded)
2. Office 365 subscription (Personal, Small Biz, Midsize, Enterprise E1/E3/E4)
3. MAK/KMS (Open License/Open Value/Open Value Subscription + SA)

"May I recommend Google Docs instead?" :biggrin:

 

[Mushkins]

So how does Software Assurance work if you only purchase a single Open License & then use keycards? Does SA & the other features only apply if you buy an Open License per user?

Software Assurance is a separate, optional cost that can be added to licensing. SA is a *per seat* license, meaning if Windows 9 came out and you wanted to bump all those Win7 Pro PCs up to Win 9, you would need to have an Open License with SA for every single one. Remember, you still need underlying qualifying licenses for every seat. Personally, SA across the board for small businesses is a huge waste of money. Having SA on the one license you have for imaging rights might save you a couple bucks should you migrate to a newly released OS, as you won't have to buy a full-price brand new Windows 9 Pro open license.

Buying SA across the board is honestly only cost effective for an enterprise environment where you're taking advantage of downgrade rights but are also planning to migrate the whole enterprise to a later OS. For example, all those shops still running XP due to software compatibility that are now migrating to Windows 7 for 10000+ workstations. Having 10000 Windows 8.1 Enterprise licenses with SA ensures they can run whatever OS version they want on all the hardware, and dont have to buy-in again whenever they choose to upgrade. It's a long-term plan with a lot of flexibility, but there's a high cost premium attached.

Also, does the 8.1 Open give you downgrade rights to 7 Pro? I'll have to investigate that as well. That would be convenient for places that have unknown & intermittent growth rates...

They only sell open licenses for the latest software versions, so yes an 8.1 Pro open license includes downgrade rights. Again the catch is *you still must have a valid license for the underlying OS*. If you bought 100 workstations with Windows 7 Pro OEM preinstalled from Dell, and you have a single 8.1 Pro Open license, you have rights to image and install Windows 7 Pro using that key on ALL 100 workstations. You do NOT have rights to upgrade all 100 workstations to Windows 8.1. You can upgrade *ONE* of those workstations to Windows 8.1 if you so choose, the rest have to stay Win 7 Pro. You can downgrade that one workstation to whatever you want as well.

If you buy 100 new workstations with Windows 8.1 OEM preinstalled, and have a single 8.1 Pro Open license, you can use that one key for a base image on all 100 workstations, but you *CANNOT* downgrade them to Windows 7 Pro. You would need to purchase the full 100 Windows 8.1 Pro Open licenses to downgrade them all to Win 7 Pro. Again, this is where full open licensing makes sense for an organization, as all those companies still running Win XP can't purchase machines from Dell with underlying XP licenses anymore.

It's also important to note the differences between a Pro version open license and an Enterprise version open license. A Pro license only grants downgrade/upgrade rights to the matching versioning (Pro to Pro, Home Premium to Home Premium, etc). An Enterprise open license gives you carte blanche to downgrade or upgrade to whatever version of the OS you want.

As a side note, there's no such thing as an "Ultimate" version open license. Ultimate and Enterprise are exactly the same software with exactly the same features for both Win 7 and Win 8, it's strictly a naming/licensing thing. And before you get too excited, 8.1 Enterprise licenses *without* SA are about $290 a seat

 

[Kaido]

Couple nice breakthroughs here:

1. DVD installation:

You can purchase an installation DVD of Office 2013 for download-only versions (handy for business installs, not having to wait for the download) from the My Account link. Note that this does not work with Office 365. You can also download an image file (2.1-gig IMG), also from the My Account link, which is here:

https://www.office.com/myaccount

You will need a blank DVD disc and an IMG burning program (I recommend ImgBurn). Alternatively, you can mount & install (or extract) the installation files, either to install on the local machine or to throw on a USB stick or a network share. Pismo will let you mount IMG files as folders, or you can just use 7zip or whatever archive app you want. It extracts 3 folders - an autorun INF, a Setup Program, an office folder with the installation files. Just run the Setup program to install.

So this is the next bit of good news - you can use this installer to manually input a license key. You'll still have to login to your master Microsoft Account, but you can at least specify which one you want to use:

http://i.imgur.com/p4f2tBx.jpg

I would recommend creating a spreadsheet to keep track of the license keys you purchase & the users/computers who have them, or else the order of the license keys in the Microsoft Account listing page. Manual tracking FTL!

2. Viewing your license keys online:

You CAN view individual license keys (if you have multiple keys & didn't keep track of the order they were installed in), in a weird way:

a. Log into your Microsoft Account using the My Account page
b. Under the product in question, click "Install from a disc"
c. Then select "I want to burn a disc"
d. Then click on the "View your product key"

Here's a workflow diagram: (yay MS Paint)

http://i.imgur.com/Abnyi2X.jpg

The download versions are tricky because I don't know how to verify what key was installed post-installation. Working on that next. It helps if you track it up front with a spreadsheet, especially since we have a method for finding the keys & installing from an installer using a key now. So typically you could use Belarc Advisor, Nirsoft, Magic Jellybean, etc., but they show nothing on the download versions. Apparently the click-to-run versions install in a local virtual environment, which makes them hard to detect. Found a good thread on Spiceworks with some more discussion:

http://community.spiceworks.com/top...-key-my-microsoft-office-2013-is-using?page=2

I'm going to try a few things on the next few machines we install but from what I've seem, once you install and activate run one of these scripts

◾Office 2013 (32-bit) on a 32-bit version of Windows
cscript "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office15\OSPP.VBS" /dstatus
◾Office 2013 (32-bit) on a 64-bit version of Windows
cscript "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15\OSPP.VBS" /dstatus
◾Office 2013 (64-bit) on a 64-bit version of Windows
cscript "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office15\OSPP.VBS" /dstatus

This will give the last block of the key and should match one in the online office.com/myaccount

&

If it helps anyone, I put this into a batch file (.bat) and it reveals only the last 5 digits.

Office 2013:

cscript "C:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15\ospp.vbs" /dstatus
pause

Office 2010:

cscript "C:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office14\ospp.vbs" /dstatus
pause

It's nothing special but it should help if you have your key stored online with your account. This is true, especially for office 2013.

Again, I'll toss this all in my wiki once I get it nailed down. It's a start!

 

[Kaido]

Just a quick note on deactivation: (at least for Office 365)

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/a...ice-365-home-premium-install-HA102925486.aspx

Per Microsoft's blog:

http://blogs.office.com/2013/03/06/office-2013-now-transferable/

Can I transfer the software to another computer or user?

You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you, but not more than one time every 90 days (except due to hardware failure, in which case you may transfer sooner). If you transfer the software to another computer, that other computer becomes the “licensed computer.” You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement before the transfer. Any time you transfer the software to a new computer, you must remove the software from the prior computer and you may not retain any copies.

I'm not quite sure how to deactivate a non-365 version. I'm guessing you have to uninstall & call tech support. In previous versions that didn't have a deactivate feature, you could simply uninstall & reboot (provided you had an Internet connection) and that would send a deactivation signal in the background.

 

[Kaido]

Creating a bat file as mentioned above does give you the last 5 digits of the keycode:

cscript "C:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15\ospp.vbs" /dstatus
pause

So that can be used to reverse-engineer the code & compare it to your spreadsheet for installations you've already done. Here's (supposedly) the procedure to change the key: (keycard version doesn't have File > Account > Change Product Key)

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...=4&msgId=491928a5-1547-44d0-a1bc-6efd7c64b65e

There's more detail on switches here:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee624350(v=office.15).aspx

But this is the basic idea:

Command Prompt:
cd C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15
cscript ospp.vbs /inpkey:KEYHERE

Almost worked...gave me this:

ERROR CODE: 0xC004F069
ERROR DESCRIPTION: The Software Licensing Service reported that the product SKUis not found

I verified that the key was accurate & it was, so I still need to find a way to change the license key on keycard/download versions that were installed with an incorrect key. I could always do an uninstall/reinstall, but that's a bit of a pain, so I'll add that to my projects list.

 

[gmaster456]

I finally jumped onto the the 365 bandwagon for new users. For the users that are on 2013 or older I manually inputted the keys into a spreadsheet. But every new machine goes into the 365 subscription. Tired of Microsoft's games pushing people to 365 and honestly, it wasn't worth all of the hassle not to.

 

[Kaido]

I finally jumped onto the the 365 bandwagon for new users. For the users that are on 2013 or older I manually inputted the keys into a spreadsheet. But every new machine goes into the 365 subscription. Tired of Microsoft's games pushing people to 365 and honestly, it wasn't worth all of the hassle not to.

I'm beginning to see why!

 

[Kaido]

Belarc has a blurb on 2013:

http://www.belarc.com/msproductkeys.html

How to Change Microsoft Windows and Office Product Keys

Sometimes a Microsoft product key shown in Belarc software doesn't match the key on the Microsoft sticker, or only shows a few characters of the key. One common cause of this is that the software was pre-installed by the computer manufacturer and your personal product key was sent on a separate card or sticker. Computer manufacturers often use their product key, instead of yours, when pre-installing software at the factory so that's the key you're seeing.

Another common cause is that the Office 2013 installers remove all but the last five characters of the install product key once the installation completes.

To change the product key currently on your computer (and reported by Belarc) to your full personal key follow the steps outlined below.

...

Finding your Office 2013 product key

Purchasers of Office 2013 usually receive only a Product Key Card and instructions to download office from the office.com web site. The 25 character key on that Product Key Card is not your office install key, but instead an entitlement key allowing you to install office from that web site.

You can see the product key that is used to install office by signing into your office.com account here. Once signed in, choose Install from a disc under Account Options. You'll see your office installation product key to the right of your options.

So what we've learned so far is:

1. The license key on the Office 2013 keycard is an entitlement key, which allows you to install Office from the Microsoft Account website. It is not the same as an install key. The entitlement key grants you the right to download & install Office from the Microsoft Account website.

2. When Office 2013 installs, it removes all but the last 5 characters of the install key once the installation completes, which can be found by creating a batch file with the code below & then cross-referencing it with the license key listed on the My Account website:

cscript "C:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15\ospp.vbs" /dstatus
pause

And as a quick side note, Office 2013 uses Microsoft's "Click-to-run" technology, which streams the installation online, although you can choose to (1) buy a DVD, (2) download an IMG and burn it to DVD, or (3) download an IMG, extract it, and install it via hard drive/network/USB stick/whatever.

3. Office 2013 (retail) requires a Microsoft Account. Previous versions of Office were hardware-activated, but the 2013 version is user-activated, meaning that you have to create a Microsoft Account in order to activate & download a 2013 retail license key. This is pretty horrible for a number of reasons.

Remaining issues:

1. Currently unable to change the product key. This is really only applicable for when you've selected the wrong download from a list of keys in the Microsoft Account & can be solved by doing an uninstall/reinstall with the correct downloader, or the offline installer & punching in the product key. This website suggested running the following command in an elevated CMD prompt, but I had no luck with it: (gave me error code 0xC004F069 with "SKU is not found")

http://lichao.net/eblog/how-to-change-product-key-for-office-2013-home-and-business-201401891.html

cscript “C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Office\Office15\OSPP.VBS” /inpkey:yourkeygoeshere

This may be due to the way that 2013 licensing works, i.e.

2. I still need a procedure for how to transfer a license, which I assume involves calling tech support. This is due to their recent TOS change that allows you to transfer the license, but you are limited to once every 90 days. I'm curious if this is where the issue with changing the product key lies, even if the installed key is already activated & won't activate. Previous versions of Office allowed you to change the license in various ways, but the current version does not, which is frustrating in certain situations.

I'll keep digging & then compile my notes together to make it more clear. What a mess!

 

[Dahak]

Belarc has a blurb on 2013:

And as a quick side note, Office 2013 uses Microsoft's "Click-to-run" technology, which streams the installation online, although you can choose to (1) buy a DVD, (2) download an IMG and burn it to DVD, or (3) download an IMG, extract it, and install it via hard drive/network/USB stick/whatever.

Yes that annoys me to no end. But I believe it does not download the whole thing as the install times seem pretty quick. Otherwise, why bother with the preloads or offering the OPK for office to preload it at all.


Possibly the reason why it is failing is because they do not work on the retail versions of it (Retail,Download,PCK) and only on the Open/Volume License versions.

The heading under Technet seems to indicate that as its all listed under the Volume Activation

 

[Kaido]

Yes that annoys me to no end. But I believe it does not download the whole thing as the install times seem pretty quick. Otherwise, why bother with the preloads or offering the OPK for office to preload it at all.


Possibly the reason why it is failing is because they do not work on the retail versions of it (Retail,Download,PCK) and only on the Open/Volume License versions.

The heading under Technet seems to indicate that as its all listed under the Volume Activation

Yeah, it is a surprisingly quick installation, I'm not sure if they stream extra components after the framework is finished or what. I have tried the key change procedure non-Open/Volume licenses with no luck. I also talked to a buddy who uses MAK at his shop (for 2013) and simply has an activation allocation through Microsoft's clearing house. So it's basically Retail, 365, and Volume (Open License via MAK or KMS). I'm sure there's more twists & turns, but at least now we're getting a clearer picture without needing a degree in Microsoft licensing, haha.

Also, I did give key-selection activation a try (i.e. running the generic installer & logging into a Microsoft Account), but it doesn't tell you which license key to select, which is totally useless. I don't even see the point of having that screen available, because (1) it doesn't show you the license, and (2) it doesn't tell you whether or not it's been activated, so you still have to track everything manually.

http://i.imgur.com/lEPDjLT.jpg

Things I want to verify:

1. That it is 100% legit to use a keycard as a license under a single Open License purchase for a site
2. That there is no other way to change a 2013 license key (for retail) other than to uninstall (if you downloaded a previously-activated installer from the Microsoft Account)
3. How to actually transfer a license

Found an excellent data sheet on 2013 here:

http://www.techdata.com/business/microsoft/files/2013-Jan/NewOffice_Datasheet.pdf

They do mention that you can install an Office 2013 Open License on 2 devices, which is nice, but I'm still trying to find where it explicitly says that PKC's are OK under a single Open License. There's a good post on retail vs. volume rights differences in a post by Don_Z28 on this thread:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...2013-pkc/b9a11c2e-3136-4edc-b6d9-e4bd026b9736

Over and above the included components in the Office Suites,
please be advise of the following for, OEM, FPP (Full Packaged Product) and PKC, (Product Key Card)
* do not have IT image rights
* do not have virtualization rights
* do not have roaming rights
* have limited license transfer rights
* have limited downgrade rights
* Customer MUST maintain packages for audit compliance


Also note there are additional differences between the FPP and PKC
FPP:
- can install/activate on up to 3 systems operated by the same user
- transfer >> to another system within 90 days (eg, failed system board)
- downgrade to prior version – may require assistance from Microsoft to do so
PKC:
- Can activate on 1 system only
- transfer >> only once to another system within 90 day only (eg, failed system board)
- downgrade to prior version – may require assistance from Microsoft to do so

Except that the TOS have since been updated:

Where did you get this information.

I got mine from the 2013 Retail / OEM MSLT:
http://pastebin.com/AxsH66hc


Office 2013 FPP
- can install on only 1 device
- transfer is not limited to 90 days
- transfer is not limited to failed system
- retail FPP does NOT have any downgrade rights that I have seen mention of ...

AFIK there is no 2013 "PKC" any more, that has been "upgraded" to be called "Retail/FPP".

For curiosity's sake, I'll have to take the plunge & get the $219 download-only version on a future purchase, because I'm curious to see both what the legal language is & how the licensing and install methodology compares to the keycard version. If the license is the same & the terms and conditions are the same, then it's ridiculous to make (or buy) anything other than the Product Keycard edition.

 

[Kaido]

Quick update: Amazon is no longer selling the "Office 2013 Home & Business" software on CD. Your choices are download-only ($219):

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Offi.../dp/B00B1TGMIS

Or keycard: ($167)

http://www.amazon.com/Office-Home-Bu...dp/B009SPWJ98/

I have purchased both. If you buy the download-only version, Amazon simply gives you a license key (and stores it in your Amazon account for retrieval from "past orders" if you need it). If you buy the keycard, they send you a little box with a license key on a keycard. They redeem EXACTLY the same way - through a Microsoft Account online. For a $52 price difference. Ridiculous.

At any rate, you can download an offline installer (IMG file that you can extract/mount/burn/whatever) that is not tied to a license key. When the installer starts up, it will ask for your Microsoft Account's email address, but there is a link to enter the product key instead. Then it will have you punch in the key, and then register the key against a Microsoft Account. imo that is the easiest way to do things - the offline installer is a hair over 2 gigs, so this way you don't have to wait to download it AND install it. You still need to be connect to the Internet for installation, which basically goes like this:

1. Begin IMG install & enter product key
2. Register the product key online through your Microsoft Account (opens up a webpage)
3. Activate Office to your Microsoft Account (via the installer)
4. Finish up installation (goes WAY quicker than the online streaming install)

Now, it still popped up near the end & asked me to select one of the products to license, but did NOT show the license. Even after I entered the license in the beginning. Fortunately it was the last one I installed (#14 in this customer's case), so I selected that & it activated it. It is a SUPER flaky system. Also, after installation, it copied over the display settings I had done on the previous install (ex. Dark Gray). I don't know if that means that all 14 users on that single account will mirror each other's settings or what. Anyway, it is VERY important to manually track your license keys against the numerical order if you're not using a MAK or MKS volume activation system, because Microsoft will NOT do it for you.

 

[Dahak]

Now, it still popped up near the end & asked me to select one of the products to license, but did NOT show the license. Even after I entered the license in the beginning. Fortunately it was the last one I installed (#14 in this customer's case), so I selected that & it activated it. It is a SUPER flaky system. Also, after installation, it copied over the display settings I had done on the previous install (ex. Dark Gray). I don't know if that means that all 14 users on that single account will mirror each other's settings or what.

Only if the MS account stays signed in. Now as I had mentioned before we usually use the
MAK versions, but I had another one that added the PKC version. I usually sign out of the MS account after the install as they do not need to stay logged in.

Anyway, it is VERY important to manually track your license keys against the numerical order if you're not using a MAK or MKS volume activation system, because Microsoft will NOT do it for you.

Yes that is still the most annoying part. Luckly for me there was only two and I just selected the 2nd one. I had looked them in the MS account to see if there was a way to add a note or some details but could not. I would hate it when I would get up to the numbers you have ie 14+

 

[Mushkins]

If you buy 100 new workstations with Windows 8.1 OEM preinstalled, and have a single 8.1 Pro Open license, you can use that one key for a base image on all 100 workstations, but you *CANNOT* downgrade them to Windows 7 Pro. You would need to purchase the full 100 Windows 8.1 Pro Open licenses to downgrade them all to Win 7 Pro. Again, this is where full open licensing makes sense for an organization, as all those companies still running Win XP can't purchase machines from Dell with underlying XP licenses anymore.

Saw this post was still kicking around and wanted to update what I previously said that is now inaccurate Microsoft changed Windows 8 OEM licensing to include downgrade rights. All of our new PCs purchased from Dell specifically come with Windows 8.1 licenses and are factory-downgraded to Windows 7, like they did with Vista/XP. So to edit my previous statement, if you purchased 100 workstations with Win 8.1 OEM licenses and have a single 8.1 Pro Open License, you can downgrade them all to Windows 7 Pro.

Guess they've gotta get those Windows 8 sales numbers up somehow, eh?