Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: zinfamous
cool dog...but this lundehund syndrome seems kind of freaky, and apparently all of them are affected. Life span is random and unpredictable b/c of this.
These kind of things happen when you try to rescue a breed, or any sort of species, from a bottleneck of 6. hmmm, not a good idea....
It said some of them are symptom free, and many have few symptoms. But yes...tight breeding always has it's flaws, like German Shepards and their hip dysplesia.
It's kind of amazing to go from 6 to a couple thousand!
it's also irresponsible from a genetic perspective.
hence, this syndrome.
honestly, the breed should be a museum piece, sorry to say.
Zinfamous, I could agree with you if they were a wild animal, but these are domesticated dogs, so unless humans breed them they cannot go out in the wild, live in packs, and thrive. Not to mention the fact we nearly drove their primary hunted food to extinction.
Natural selection and dogs went out the window when so many domesticated breeds became available.
It's an unnatural world, dig it!
I agree with you, but I'm coming from a different perspective here.....
Sure, I'm not worried about this dog trying to survive in the wild, passing on unfavorable traits to other, more robust breeds.
The issue here, is one of ethics. I know puffins are still a major food source in places like Iceland. Are they depending on these dogs to hunt Puffins for their food? I'm not sure, honestly. I have an Icelandic pal, an evolutionary geneticist whom I've worked with, strangely enough, and I'll ask him (a mentor of mine at NC State, a pretty well-known evolutionary geneticist, was our PI and has become quite interested in dog genetics, actually....though I don't know where either of them stand on this) Anyhoo, is this dog that is born into sickness being kept around simply for shows? For the ASPCA? So some industry can "legitimize" the perpetuation of an unnatural animal for the sake of their show?
Yes, it sounds extremist, and I'm not an extremist. But, the argument bears merit. This is an animal that, even in the face of
directed artificial selection, essentially lost out to selection processes. It was only through an advanced system of breeding, patience, and some pretty good evolutionary understanding (though, not appreciation
), that these dogs survived.
So again, ...why do we keep these around?
I'll be fully honest here: I only learned about this breed form this post. And I must admit...I want one. hehe
Most purebreeds have some kind of ailment that aflicts their breed though, such as German Shephards and hip dysplasia,
Let me pull up known genetic issues that can arise in poodles.
Toy:
* Progressive Retinal Atrophy a disorder of the eye in which the light cells in the retina wither and die due to insufficient blood supply. the disease progresses Gradually, results in blindness and has no known cure. Its onset in the Poodle is between 5 to 6 years old. The presence of PRA can be detected by ophthalmascopic examination by a veterinary ophthalmologist.
* Corneal Dystrophy - Corneal dystrophies" are diseases of the cornea that are bilateral, non-inflammatory and inherited.
* Legg-Calve'-Perthes - a disorder in which non-inflammatory a vascular necrosis of the femoral neck and head result in one of both of a young dog's rear legs becoming lame. Irritability and pain are other primary symptoms. Some dogs recover and function without treatment, but in severe case surgical removal of the femur head is indicated.
* Patella Sub-luxation - or slipped kneecap, a condition in which the patella slides in and out of the groove where it is normally held in place by ligaments. This causes hopping or favoring of the leg until the kneecap slips back into place. In some cases, in can be surgically corrected.
* Epilepsy - a neurological disorder marked by recurring seizures that follow episodic, abnormal discharges of electrical impulses by nerve cells in the brain. As in humans, it is controlled with drugs such as Phenobarbital or Dilantin.
* Hypothyroidism - a condition resulting from an inadequate production of thyroid hormone. Also treated with drug therapy, its symptoms include a coarse, brittle coat that falls out, thickening and discoloration of the skin, lethargy, obesity, mental slowness and irregular heart cycles.
* Cryptorchidism - or undescended testicle, a condition in which one or both testicles are retained in the abdominal cavity. Hormone injections, given to stimulate testicular descent, sometimes are successful. When the treatment is unsuccessful, removal of the testicles is recommended because cryptorchid testicles may become cancerous.
* Mitral Valve Disease - The heart consists of 4 chambers - 2 atria and 2 ventricles. The atrioventricular (AV) valves ensure that the blood flows from the atria to the ventricles when the heart beats. A defect in the mitral valve (the left atrioventricular valve) causes backflow of blood into the left atrium, or mitral regurgitation. Less commonly, a narrowing or stenosis of the valve can be identified. Because of the leaky valve, the heart is less efficient at pumping blood to the body.
*
Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA) - A decrease in the number of red blood cells (RBC's) or the amount of hemoglobin, resulting in a decrease in the oxygen- carrying capacity of the blood.
* Cushings Disease - This is a disease that occurs from the overproduction of cortisone by the adrenal glands.
The Standard is also subject to:
* Hip Dysplasia - a condition in which the head of the femur fits improperly into the hip joint socket, causing Pain and lameness. Pain killers and/or surgery are the usual treatments.
Genetically based disorders in The Standard Poodle include:
* PRA, Epilepsy, and Hypothyroidism (same as with the Toy and Miniature above.)
* Corneal Dystrophy - Corneal dystrophies" are diseases of the cornea that are bilateral, non-inflammatory and inherited (same as Toy and Miniature).
* Hip Dyplasia (see above, same as Miniature. The Toy does not seem to suffer from this one.)
* Addisons Disease - A disorder caused by a deficiency in adreno cortical hormonesmost commonly occurring in young to middle aged dogs.
* Cushings Disease - This is a disease that occurs from the overproduction of cortisone by the adrenal glands.
* Von Willebrand's Disease - a disorder that involves a tendency to bleed easily, is caused by a deficiency in the von Willebrand factor, a protein found in the blood plasma. As with PRA and hip dysplasia, VWD testing is recommended.
* Sebaceous Adenitis - a chronic skin disorder resulting from abnormal and/or inflamed, or in some cases a total absence of, sebaceous glands. Symptoms include hair loss, formation of silver-gray scales and secondary skin infections with an offensive odor. Therapeutic baths and antibiotics for secondary infections are the recommended treatments.
* Bloat/Gastric Torsion - a life Threatening condition that occurs when the stomach swells with gas and then twists cutting off its blood supply.
* Liver Shunts - Liver Shunts are abnormal vascular connections between the hepatic portal vein and systemic circulation. Such anomalies cause blood in the gastrointestinal tract to be diverted past the liver, there by limiting the liver's vital functions in metabolism and detoxification of compounds.
* JRD - Juvenile renal disease (JRD) and other congenital or familial forms of renal dysplasia are seen in about twenty breeds of dogs including The Standard Poodle. According to Kenneth Bovee, DVM, (Professor of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania), the clinical entity has considerable variation from breed to breed and has completely different prevalence rates. A table which lists all of the congenital and familial renal diseases of dogs by breed can be found in Veterinary Pediatrics Dogs & Cats from Birth to Six Months.
* Mitral Valve Disease - The heart consists of 4 chambers - 2 atria and 2 ventricles. The atrioventricular (AV) valves ensure that the blood flows from the atria to the ventricles when the heart beats. A defect in the mitral valve (the left atrioventricular valve) causes backflow of blood into the left atrium, or mitral regurgitation. Less commonly, a narrowing or stenosis of the valve can be identified. Because of the leaky valve, the heart is less efficient at pumping blood to the body.
* Entropian - An eye condition in which the eyelids are grown inward, causing the eye lashes to come into contact with the eye itself.
* Autoimmune Disease - If a dog has an autoimmune disease, the immune system mistakenly attacks self, targeting the cells, tissues, and organs of a dogs own body. A collection of immune system cells and molecules at a target site is broadly referred to as inflammation.
* Hereditary Eye Disease - Genetic Eye Problems
* Elbow Dysplasia or O.C.D. - Elbow Dysplasia has been coined to describe three developmental conditions, osteochondrosis/ osteochondritis dissecans (OC/OCD) of the humeral condyle, ununited anconeal process (UAP), and fragmented coronoid process (FCP), that commonly affect the elbow of many large and giant breeds of dogs.
*
Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA) - A decrease in the number of red blood cells (RBC's) or the amount of hemoglobin, resulting in a decrease in the oxygen- carrying capacity of the blood.
Yet people still breed them. Why? The same reasons as the lungehound.
1) To keep the species alive.
2) For their wonderful traits
3) Because it isn't a given they would be in pain, many of these animals live healthy lives.
I suppose it's similar to people, even if you might be predisposed to some disorders, many people would still be happy they were born. =)
I hope that answers your questions on my thoughts of the issues at hand!
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