Does anyone know if Skylake will be Socket 1150?

[A_Square_Circle]

Does anyone know if Skylake will be Socket 1150?

I've built a Haswell and my CPU is an overclocking dud.

I'm wondering, if Skylake is a OCing champ; will I have to buy another mobo or will it be a quick switch-out?

Or has it not been leaked yet and nobody knows (all speculation)?

 

[blackened23]

No. The changes of socket 1150 being compatible is basically: zero. Furthermore, here's why: next year's Haswell refresh and Broadwell (if it does come to LGA) will not use the same motherboards; all next generation LGA CPUs will have differences with the clock generator. As well, Haswell refresh and Broadwell (if it is LGA) has very different power supply requirement and a different 1.05V power source - This means they will not be compatible with existing socket 1150. This is aside from the fact that all CPUs for LGA next year will be using the X99 platform which brings a ton of new changes (DDR4, SATA Express).

Essentially, 1150 is compatible with Haswell and only that.

 

[RU482]

nope, socket change every two generations.
buy 1155 now, if you like lagacy prodcut
buy 1150 now, with some forward mobility to Broadwell.

Or, buy whatever now, and sell it when you get tired of it, and buy whatever then. there is no BIG win

 

[blackened23]

RU482, Broadwell will not work on LGA 1150.

Broadwell, Haswell refresh, and Skylake working on LGA 1150. No, it is not possible. Intel just recently published this information. These changes are not possible on existing LGA 1150 motherboards - all of next year's LGA chips will require new motherboard designs:

See here:

LGA 1150 works only with Haswell and that's it. It will not work with Haswell refresh or Broadwell if it is LGA.

 

[A_Square_Circle]

D:

Oh well. Hopefully haswell won't be blown out of the water by it's replacement.

I bought a Core2 right before Nehalem came out. Which I regretted. And now I'm starting to regret Haswell, thinking I bought before the real tock.

It seems I always buy a CPU at the wrong time.

At least it's the fastest now. :\ (not counting the extreme cpus or xenons)

 

[TuxDave]

D:

Oh well. Hopefully haswell won't be blown out of the water by it's replacement.

I bought a Core2 right before Nehalem came out. Which I regretted. And now I'm starting to regret Haswell, thinking I bought before the real tock.
It seems I always buy a CPU at the wrong time.

At least it's the fastest now. :\ (not counting the extreme cpus or xenons)

I'm not really sure what you're regretting. You bought just as real tock got released. The next "tock" is a couple more years away. This is equivalent of buying a Nehalem back then instead of the Core2.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Skylake will most likely have fully integrated PCH. So obviously no.

 

[NTMBK]

D:

Oh well. Hopefully haswell won't be blown out of the water by it's replacement.

It looks like Broadwell won't come to desktop, except in Xeon E3 form. It's more of a perf/W focused part than raw-performance.

 

[blackened23]

It looks like Broadwell won't come to desktop, except in Xeon E3 form. It's more of a perf/W focused part than raw-performance.

Recent intel docs suggest that it might -- X99 is a consumer level mainstream chipset and it seems to have support for Broadwell. X99 is also being used for Haswell-E and Haswell refresh.

So I don't know. Nobody knows, and we won't know for some time - Intel will neither confirm nor deny any broadwell plans. It could very well be Xeon only, we just don't know. But to the topic at hand, none of these chips will work on existing LGA 1150 boards.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Recent intel docs suggest that it might -- X99 is a consumer level mainstream chipset and it seems to have support for Broadwell. X99 is also being used for Haswell-E and Haswell refresh.

So I don't know. Nobody knows, and we won't know for some time - Intel will neither confirm nor deny any broadwell plans. It could very well be Xeon only, we just don't know. But to the topic at hand, none of these chips will work on existing LGA 1150 boards.

Haswell Refresh and Broadwell LGA1150 uses Z/H/97. Not X99.

And if anyone should be in doubt. Haswell-E and Ivy Bridge-E is not socket compatible due to the FVIR and other parts.

 

[blackened23]

Haswell Refresh and Broadwell LGA1150 uses Z/H/Q97. Not X99.

Oops, yeah that's what I meant. But it still requires new motherboards because of the clock generator and power rail change. And really - that's fine with me. These changes are necessary to further improve the architecture efficiency overall which will be important in the mobile and enterprise space.

I'm just really confused by Haswell refresh and Broadwell. I have no idea how intel is going to handle that - do they overlap? Is Broadwell going to be a mainstream chip? It would be weird to simultaneously get "Haswell refresh" and Broadwell on LGA. Who knows. I'm not sure if Broadwell is Xeon and BGA initially only, or if it's going straight to LGA. Intel hasn't really commented.

 

[NTMBK]

I'm just really confused by Haswell refresh and Broadwell. I have no idea how intel is going to handle that - do they overlap? Is Broadwell going to be a mainstream chip? It would be weird to simultaneously get "Haswell refresh" and Broadwell on LGA. Who knows. I'm not sure if Broadwell is Xeon and BGA initially only, or if it's going straight to LGA. Intel hasn't really commented.

Haswell Refresh is the desktop part, Broadwell in mobile and low-power single socket servers.

 

[blackened23]

Haswell Refresh is the desktop part, Broadwell in mobile and low-power single socket servers.

If that were true, when why would intel documents released last month indicate Broadwell support on X9 series chipsets? Intel specifically states Broadwell support. What that entails, though, nobody is quite sure. But it isn't servers. It may come to LGA. Whether that is a Xeon part, E part, or mainstream CPU, nobody knows. Shrug. From the wording of the intel documents it may be plausible that Broadwell comes directly to LGA next year as a consumer level mainstream chip - but we don't know 100% for sure yet.

 

[NTMBK]

If that were true, when why would intel documents released last month indicate Broadwell support on X9 series chipsets? Intel specifically states Broadwell support. What that entails, though, nobody is quite sure. But it isn't servers. It may come to LGA. Whether that is a Xeon part, E part, or mainstream CPU, nobody knows. Shrug. From the wording of the intel documents it may be plausible that Broadwell comes directly to LGA next year as a consumer level mainstream chip - but we don't know 100% for sure yet.

The X99 chipset is for Haswell E and Broadwell E, not LGA1150. The LGA1150 enthusiast chipset is Z97. There are multiple desktop roadmaps showing Haswell Refresh and no Broadwell. The only place Broadwell has shown up in an LGA1150 socket is on a Xeon roadmap.

 

[blackened23]

This was just released by intel

Broadwell and HW refresh use the same chipset. That would indicate a possible mainstream chip. Forget the information you have - you are looking at dated information, intel released updated information last month indicating that Broadwell would be coming to LGA in some form.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intels-9-series-will-support-broadwell/53203.html

 

[ShintaiDK]

As far as I know.

Haswell Refresh will work on any current LGA1150 board, assuming BIOS support.

While Broadwell will need a new board. However, Broadwell will only come as single socket Xeons on LGA1150. So its a moot matter anyway. But one can always buy a Broadwell Xeon and plug it in his or hers H97/Z97 board with BIOS support for it.

 

[blackened23]

As far as I know.

Haswell Refresh will work on any current LGA1150 board, assuming BIOS support.

While Broadwell will need a new board. However, Broadwell will only come as single socket Xeons on LGA1150. So its a moot matter anyway.

Intel, again, released documents last month indicating otherwise. Haswell refresh has an integrated clock generator (which are now on motherboards) and has power rail changes which makes it impossible to work on LGA 1150. It will require new motherboards. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because intel is focusing on efficiency for the uarch changes - and that is a good thing even if it requires new motherboards. Sticking to a legacy platform for 5+ years is never a good idea.

My guess is that Haswell refresh and Broadwell will share the same new motherboards. Note the wording in the platform changes below. The changes they're making make LGA 1150 impossible for Haswell Refresh. This document also indicates that Haswell refresh and Broadwell will both be released on LGA next year - and neither will not work on Z87:

 

[NTMBK]

This was just released by intel

Broadwell and HW refresh use the same chipset. That would indicate a possible mainstream chip. Forget the information you have - you are looking at dated information, intel released updated information last month indicating that Broadwell would be coming to LGA in some form.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intels-9-series-will-support-broadwell/53203.html

I didn't say it wasn't coming to LGA, I said it wasn't coming to desktop consumer parts. The "low power Xeon" roadmap pretty clearly indicates it in LGA:

But as I said, this is just for low power single-socket servers. Don't expect to see a 4GHz i7 Broadwell in LGA.

 

[blackened23]

For the millionth time, Intel updated their documents last month to indicate that it may well be coming to LGA. Why else would Haswell refresh and Broadwell share the same Z97 chipset? Intel just released this information to motherboard vendors - your roadmap is from a long time ago. Things change.

Or, if you want to explain how Intel released documents detailing changes necessary on a platform level to support Broadwell on Z97, without releasing it in LGA form, feel free to do so.

I'm pretty sure Broadwell will come to LGA. What i'm not sure about is the time frame, which platform (Enthusiast, mainstream, etc) and all of the finer details. But i'm certain it isn't server only since intel's documents indicate otherwise.

 

[NTMBK]

For the millionth time, Intel updated their documents last month to indicate that it may well be coming to LGA. Why else would Haswell refresh and Broadwell share the same Z97 chipset? Intel just released this information to motherboard vendors. Christ. Understand that your roadmap is from a long time ago. Things change.

a) All of Intel's chipsets within a given generation share the same silicon, just with a few blown fuses in the lower end parts. If they give the "business chipset" Broadwell support, then the same silicon goes into Z97.

b) What part of that documentation says that it is talking about Z97?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Intel, again, released documents last month indicating otherwise. Haswell refresh has an integrated clock generator (which are now on motherboards) and has power rail changes which makes it impossible to work on LGA 1150. It will require new motherboards. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because intel is focusing on efficiency for the uarch changes - and that is a good thing even if it requires new motherboards. Sticking to a legacy platform for 5+ years is never a good idea.

My guess is that Haswell refresh and Broadwell will share the same new motherboards. Note the wording in the platform changes below. The changes they're making make LGA 1150 impossible for Haswell Refresh. This document also indicates that Haswell refresh and Broadwell will both be released on LGA next year - and neither will not work on Z87:

Your diagram actually doesnt say anything aboout either Broadwell or Haswell Refresh support on older chipsets and platforms. Also you might not that B and Q 8 series chipsets support Haswell Refresh.

The only reference there is, is that Broadwell needs changes. Nothing mentionmed about Haswell Refresh CPUs.

 

[CakeMonster]

Whoa, this shakes things up a bit. I was sure that the HW refresh and BW (if released for LGA) would support S1150. I thought that had practically been confirmed by intel that the socket would support two "generations" like the previous ones. Are we still talking about the mainstream socket here?

I will want to get a new mobo with goodies anyway so it doesn't matter that much to me but this is interesting. One question though, new sockets are usually announced a bit in advance, will it still be called 1150?

One more thing, I can't believe Intel would not release either HW refresh or BW for a mainstream socket. That's a lot of CPU sales lost from our crowd.

 

[blackened23]

Your diagram actually doesnt say anything aboout either Broadwell or Haswell Refresh support on older chipsets and platforms. Also you might not that B and Q 8 series chipsets support Haswell Refresh.

The only reference there is, is that Broadwell needs changes. Nothing mentionmed about Haswell Refresh CPUs.

Oh, but it does, actually.

"The Haswell refresh platform implements Full Integrated Clocking mode as the only platform clock solution".

This means that Haswell refresh has an integrated clock generator. The same is also true of Broadwell. Since this is happening, it is impossible for Haswell refresh to work on the existing LGA 1150 Z87 platform. This change is a big one - the clock generator change makes Haswell refresh impossible for LGA 1150. This is aside from the power rail changes that are also occuring.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intels-9-series-will-support-broadwell/53203.html

While Haswell and the Broadwell-powered 9-series will share the LGA1150 socket, there will be a number of slight changes between the two. The most notable changes are in the V_PROC_IO connection, as it requires a 1.05V power source, VCCST, because of a new type of power supply required, and to THRMTRIP because of a slightly different chip topology. This presents a number of backwards compatibility issues, and means that only motherboards that support refreshed Haswell will be compatible with the 9-series Broadwell chips.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Whoa, this shakes things up a bit. I was sure that the HW refresh and BW (if released for LGA) would support S1150. I thought that had practically been confirmed by intel that the socket would support two "generations" like the previous ones. Are we still talking about the mainstream socket here?

I will want to get a new mobo with goodies anyway so it doesn't matter that much to me but this is interesting. One question though, new sockets are usually announced a bit in advance, will it still be called 1150?

Haswell Refresh will work on older boards as it stands now. And yes, its still LGA1150. If you choose to use a Broadwell LGA1150 Xeon, you need a new updated board however. Unless the mobo manufactor prepared it for it. But where is the second sale in that.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Oh, but it does, actually.

"The Haswell refresh platform implements Full Integrated Clocking mode as the only platform clock solution".

This means that Haswell refresh has an integrated clock generator. Since this is happening, it is impossible for Haswell refresh to work on the existing LGA 1150 Z87 platform. This change is a big one - it makes Haswell refresh impossible for LGA 1150. This is aside from the power rail changes that are also occuring.

You need to seperate the platform and the CPU.

Also as the roadmap I showed, H81 for example supports Haswell Refresh. And so will B85 and the entire Q series. And obviously also H87 and Z87 if you wanted.