Does anyone here have an MS or PhD in Computer Science?

[Chaotic42]

Unfortunately my plans to sell my house and work on a PhD have to be put on hold because of the housing market. I finally got my BS last week and since I have a few years to wait to sell my house, I thought I'd go after an MS in Computer Science. My company will pay for it, so it seems like an interesting thing to do.

I've taken CS 101, which was very basic programming in Pascal. I honestly don't know a lot about CS. It sounds like applied mathematics, which is cool. I read lots of descriptions about theory and whether or not problems are solvable.

Then I see CS people out in the wild who seem to just crank out code and argue over "Cowboy Coders" (whatever that is) and whatnot. Basically my impression of real-life CS is Slashdot.

I can program fairly well in C# and VB. I've messed with C++ and C, but I'm no expert. I don't understand why some people hate C++ and why some hate people who hate C++. I figure I'll have to start with assembly and move up from there. I have no interest in "Web 7.0" or javascript. I don't care about PHP or Ruby on Rails. That kind of IT stuff isn't interesting to me.

My question is, do you think that an MS in CS will actually cover the interesting theoretical stuff, or is it likely to be more practical "here's how to get a decent job in IT" kind of thing? Obviously this varies, but honestly more than one or two of those kind of classes would turn me off of the degree. Something like maximally efficient handing of n threads over m processors? Yes, please.

Any comments or anything? I know so little about it that I'm really not sure what I don't know. It just sounds (potentially) interesting.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

if your company pays for it, do it. end of story. My company just paid for me to get an associate degree in logistics. Free is always good.

 

[Chaotic42]

if your company pays for it, do it. end of story. My company just paid for me to get an associate degree in logistics. Free is always good.

Well, I could always get a different degree. I'd like to do a PhD in mathematics, but it's not available. I can do CS, Coastal Science, or Hydrography.

 

[nehalem256]

Unfortunately my plans to sell my house and work on a PhD have to be put on hold because of the housing market. I finally got my BS last week and since I have a few years to wait to sell my house, I thought I'd go after an MS in Computer Science. My company will pay for it, so it seems like an interesting thing to do.

I've taken CS 101, which was very basic programming in Pascal. I honestly don't know a lot about CS. It sounds like applied mathematics, which is cool. I read lots of descriptions about theory and whether or not problems are solvable.
/QUOTE]

How exactly do you plan to get an MS in Comp Sci if you don't know a lot about CS?

 

[Chaotic42]

How exactly do you plan to get an MS in Comp Sci if you don't know a lot about CS?

By taking CS classes? Is this a trick question?

 

[Farang]

Cowboy Coders, never heard that before. But those are people who can do the practical without understanding the theoretical. So obviously they are very limited, especially as technology changes.

An M.S. program is going to be much more theoretical, generally. Maybe compare it to a guy who can mod cars really well to the engineers at Ford who actually build the engine from scratch.

Maybe comprehensive is a better word than theoretical. You will be building a foundation from the ground up rather than just diving in to the end results, as "cowboy coders" would.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't know nothin' about nothin', but if you're getting paid to get a degree, why wouldn't you? Even if you aren't learning what you want, those classes will give you a window so you can see what you're looking for, and you can self study.

 

[SheHateMe]

How exactly do you plan to get an MS in Comp Sci if you don't know a lot about CS?

Yea, that blew my mind too.

They give Master's degrees to people who know nothing about what they're trying to get a Master's in?

CS 101 is obviously an introductory class, if you need to be introduced to Computer Science while you're trying to get a Master's in it..I question the University that is allowing people to do that.

 

[Chaotic42]

Yea, that blew my mind too.

They give Master's degrees to people who know nothing about what they're trying to get a Master's in?

CS 101 is obviously an introductory class, if you need to be introduced to Computer Science while you're trying to get a Master's in it..I question the University that is allowing people to do that.

They aren't just giving me a degree because I asked for it. I have to take six or seven undergraduate courses, then about twelve graduate level courses, then a thesis. Honestly it kind of blows my mind that you think they're just going to give me a degree without my, you know, learning the material.

 

[DAGTA]

I have BS and MS degrees in Computer Science.

It is possible to get a Masters in something you did not major in for your Bachelors degree. You will need to take more background classes to get the core basics down early.

Cowboy programmers: these are people that do not follow best practices. They make changes on the fly, in production, do not believe in doing a QA cycle, think they know what they are doing but often make mistakes, don't own up to mistakes, etc. You don't want to be known as one.

I don't know if every Computer Science MS degree will go into theory. I would guess it depends on the school. I enjoyed the theory classes, but I enjoy math and have some background in math and physics. In the business world, the theory will rarely apply. You'll use those concepts more if you go into research or very advanced hands-on programming such as cryptography and AI.

If it interests you and your employer will cover it, then it sounds like a good idea.

 

[Chaotic42]

I have BS and MS degrees in Computer Science.

It is possible to get a Masters in something you did not major in for your Bachelors degree. You will need to take more background classes to get the core basics down early.

Cowboy programmers: these are people that do not follow best practices. They make changes on the fly, in production, do not believe in doing a QA cycle, think they know what they are doing but often make mistakes, don't own up to mistakes, etc. You don't want to be known as one.

I don't know if every Computer Science MS degree will go into theory. I would guess it depends on the school. I enjoyed the theory classes, but I enjoy math and have some background in math and physics. In the business world, the theory will rarely apply. You'll use those concepts more if you go into research or very advanced hands-on programming such as cryptography and AI.

If it interests you and your employer will cover it, then it sounds like a good idea.

Awesome, thanks. I'm not worried about the theory, I have a BS in pure mathematics. Should be fun.

 

[zCypher]

I hate programming. Intro to C++ and dabbling in some PHP has taught me that. If the thought of programming doesn't make you cringe, and they will pay for it -- why not? Definitely go for it.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I will have my Masters in CS in the Spring. For the most part my MS was mostly practical course work. The theory is all in my thesis, and advanced "project" classes that I took. I am not taking a traditional path however as my MS layout is based primarily on doing research (PhD light). Myself and my brother were published during the course of our Bachelor's and thus got invited to take this route

I find that most of the courses offered for MS work are practical, but depending on the professors you get, they may choose to push more and more towards the theory to exercise what you are capable of Mine certainly enjoyed doing that

 

[bononos]

....
My question is, do you think that an MS in CS will actually cover the interesting theoretical stuff, or is it likely to be more practical "here's how to get a decent job in IT" kind of thing? Obviously this varies, but honestly more than one or two of those kind of classes would turn me off of the degree. Something like maximally efficient handing of n threads over m processors? Yes, please.

Any comments or anything? I know so little about it that I'm really not sure what I don't know. It just sounds (potentially) interesting.

I think that an MS-CS degree should have quite abit of theoretical papers and your Math background would be a big plus in the catch-up courses as well provide a good foundation for the type of courses that you are interested in. You should be able to get an overview of the curriculum that is being offered right?

 

[Chaotic42]

I think that an MS-CS degree should have quite abit of theoretical papers and your Math background would be a big plus in the catch-up courses as well provide a good foundation for the type of courses that you are interested in. You should be able to get an overview of the curriculum that is being offered right?

Yeah, they do have some the course listings out there, and the head of the department is extremely friendly. She teaches some math classes on the side since she also has a BS in math. I just kind of wanted to get a feel for what I might be doing from as many people as possible.

Once I get my MS, hopefully I can go for the PhD in math. Unfortunately my university doesn't offer that (not that I'd want to have a career and do a PhD at the same time anyway.) We'll see what happens.

Thanks for all of your input, everyone.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Yeah, they do have some the course listings out there, and the head of the department is extremely friendly. She teaches some math classes on the side since she also has a BS in math. I just kind of wanted to get a feel for what I might be doing from as many people as possible.

Once I get my MS, hopefully I can go for the PhD in math. Unfortunately my university doesn't offer that (not that I'd want to have a career and do a PhD at the same time anyway.) We'll see what happens.

Thanks for all of your input, everyone.

I know several coworkers that are doing their PhD while working full time. It just takes them alot longer. One of my coworkers has a kid, works full time, and has been doing her PhD for 6 years o_o

If I choose to do my PhD (and I likely will after I was reconvinced by my professors), then I couldn't imagine not working while I was doing it I'm not rich, and I imagine a very small number of folks have ever had the mobility to go jobless for several years while working on one.

 

[Farmer]

In practically all cases in the US, a full-time science or engineering Ph.D. is funded, that is, you either win full fellowship, or do an RA or TA and you will have your tuition waived and be paid a salary. The work you do as a RA is what you use to write your thesis. Think of it like this: you make a lot less than you normally would in a "real" job (my first job out of college I made $70K, right now as a Ph.D. student I make $24K), but you get a doctorate at the end and a chance to probably make more.

I have never heard of anyone paying their own way through a science or engineering Ph.D. That would NEVER be worth it. It should be about a sacrifice of time, not money. Keep in mind that the 4-6 years you need to complete a Ph.D., had you been working, you would have been getting regular pay raises, so that is the opportunity cost.

As for masters, there are two typical objectives/motivations/career paths for people to get a masters: (1.) People who just want to get paid more. They typically do a 1 year/"5th" year masters, typically involving only coursework, but sometimes do 2 years masters involving a thesis or a practicum in industry. Typically this increases your salary by $20K, but it could be a lot more or a lot less depending on the industry you are interested in. (2.) People who eventually want to do a Ph.D. but need to get more experience in research prior to applying. These people do 2 year, thesis masters. Their only objective is to get at least one first-author publication in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, and a solid recommendation letter from the thesis adviser. Fellowships/RAships/TAships for masters programs are extremely rare, far rarer than those for Ph.D.s, so expect to pay out of pocket.

In terms of the end result, if your ultimate objective is to get a Ph.D. because you want to get paid more, it's the wrong way to go, because, in general, Ph.D.s barely make any more than people with Masters degrees. The only industries that actually require a Ph.D. is advanced research or academia. For the former, you really have to love research to do it for a living. For the latter, well, making it in academia is extremely difficult (not saying other industries aren't, just saying that tenured professors did not get there by playing it nice and taking it easy).

 

[brianmanahan]

for me it was worth it, got me into a position where you normally needed 3+ years experience + bachelors, or 1+ year + masters degree. and i didnt even have 1 year at the time

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Many of my coworkers do their PhD's on their own. They all pretty much have the same story that they felt working at a school while doing their thesis would be far too stagnated. They can get the same privileges and access to materials they need while staying on the cutting edge in the field of the career. Another thing I noticed (at least in my industry) is that these same people almost all have CCIEs. They love the learning and the challenge. It's pretty much the same reason I'd even consider doing a PhD. I have no interest (at the time) in academia. But I enjoy researching new things and new ways to do things We're likely not the majority, but we aren't non-existent either.

 

[Chaotic42]

I know several coworkers that are doing their PhD while working full time. It just takes them alot longer. One of my coworkers has a kid, works full time, and has been doing her PhD for 6 years o_o

If I choose to do my PhD (and I likely will after I was reconvinced by my professors), then I couldn't imagine not working while I was doing it I'm not rich, and I imagine a very small number of folks have ever had the mobility to go jobless for several years while working on one.

Typically when you're doing a math PhD you get paid to work on it and teach. My math advisor said in no uncertain terms that I should not work full time (other than the teaching) while pursuing the PhD. I want a PhD because I want to get a PhD. I can live on my current salary (that I got with no degree at all) just fine. The advanced degrees are for me because I love learning and the topics are interesting.

 

[Farmer]

Typically when you're doing a math PhD you get paid to work on it and teach. My math advisor said in no uncertain terms that I should not work full time (other than the teaching) while pursuing the PhD. I want a PhD because I want to get a PhD. I can live on my current salary (that I got with no degree at all) just fine. The advanced degrees are for me because I love learning and the topics are interesting.

I mean same here (I don't do math, but I thought this was universal). If I told my advisor I was going to do my Ph.D. "part time," I'm certain he would fire me.

 

[Imp]

I mean same here (I don't do math, but I thought this was universal). If I told my advisor I was going to do my Ph.D. "part time," I'm certain he would fire me.

I don't know of any PhDs available to be done part-time, but given how big the school industry has gotten, it wouldn't surprise me.

The same should be true for certain types of master's degrees, I think. In engineering, an MEng, which I have, is a course/part-time available degree, though I did a pretty hefty research project. On the other hand, an MASc. is usually a full-time, major thesis-based program.

Recently, I found out that a nearby school outright allows people to do a part-time MASc. I also have a coworker who was doing a MEng part-time, but was allowed to have it switched over to a MASc. because his project advisor let him. He had to do little to no TAing considering he worked full-time the entire time he did it (he went to a school that's generally considered second-rate and THE back-up option due to lower standards).

The general perception is that the MASc. is a full-time, research-heavy, lab-based program with TAing required, keeping office hours, and close consultation with a professor. Pretty distinct experience. I just don't see how most of that is possible if you're working full-time, and blurs the lines between the MEng. and MASc. -- one is generally seen as "simpler" than the other. Guess I'm iffed because things are getting watered down, and I went to a school that doesn't allow the "better" degree one to be done part-time.

Sincerely,

Butt-hurt grad-degree holder.

 

[Farmer]

I honestly don't believe a Ph.D. should be done part time, unless your work is intimately related to your research.

A Ph.D. should be hard to get and require your full attention for many years. Anything else would sort of devalue the "Ph.D" as a concept.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I honestly don't believe a Ph.D. should be done part time, unless your work is intimately related to your research.

A Ph.D. should be hard to get and require your full attention for many years. Anything else would sort of devalue the "Ph.D" as a concept.

I bolded what I find to be overwhelmingly true of graduate students in the company I work for. Our company has more CCIE's than any other company, and takes great pride in helping further their employees. The sheer amount of highly expensive equipment we get access to (some of it not even released in the main channels yet) and the amount of money this company gives to its employees for furthering their education is ridiculous. We have more access to do research in real world network and storage / virtualization system than any school setup would provide, without any concerns for shoestring academic budgets.

To put it simply, it would be foolhardy to give that all up in the name of full-time Ph.D work.

I also find the idea logically faulty that somehow being a teacher's aide will give you more to your research than working in the real life field of the problem you're studying. Sure you might have more time as a TA, but like all things, that comes down more to effort than anything.

 

[Chaotic42]

I don't know of any PhDs available to be done part-time, but given how big the school industry has gotten, it wouldn't surprise me.

The same should be true for certain types of master's degrees, I think. In engineering, an MEng, which I have, is a course/part-time available degree, though I did a pretty hefty research project. On the other hand, an MASc. is usually a full-time, major thesis-based program.

Recently, I found out that a nearby school outright allows people to do a part-time MASc. I also have a coworker who was doing a MEng part-time, but was allowed to have it switched over to a MASc. because his project advisor let him. He had to do little to no TAing considering he worked full-time the entire time he did it (he went to a school that's generally considered second-rate and THE back-up option due to lower standards).

The general perception is that the MASc. is a full-time, research-heavy, lab-based program with TAing required, keeping office hours, and close consultation with a professor. Pretty distinct experience. I just don't see how most of that is possible if you're working full-time, and blurs the lines between the MEng. and MASc. -- one is generally seen as "simpler" than the other. Guess I'm iffed because things are getting watered down, and I went to a school that doesn't allow the "better" degree one to be done part-time.

Sincerely,

Butt-hurt grad-degree holder.

Well, it's certainly something I'm going to have to discuss with the department head. I'm sort of already on a CS/research track at work. I'm not actually a programmer by trade, but I end up doing it quite a bit to save time and money. We have an R&D department and I guess my name has been floated around for working with them. Taking the CS classes and then doing a thesis related to my field should work.

The reason I'm only going part time is to allow for the extra research and work which I anticipate will be required in the graduate-level classes. I got my Mathematics BS by going full time and working full time (with a chunky drive from work to school). I'm honestly kind of burned out, but in the Spring I'll only be taking two entry level CS classes, so it shouldn't be a big deal. My first graduate course will actually be a 500-level math class this summer. It's the 600-level classes that worry me.