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Does anyone here believe we could've went to war with Iraq without the 9/11 attack?

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Its not faulty intelligence if its premeditated manufactured bull****. Impeachment would seem appropriate.

All these people who are now saying the world is better off without Saddam ignore the slippery slope already passed. Its unjust to overthrow another country simply because that leader marks you as the opponent. Quite frankly all of South America does alot of the same and last time I heard they haven't found reasons to intervene except when they wanted a canal.
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Even before 9/11, GWB reportedly said "Find Me A Way" to invade Iraq. 9/11 was the way- it spawned a shameless campaign of fearmongering and agiprop not seen since the McCarthy era.

"9/11! Osama! 9/11! Terrar! 9/11! Saddam! 9/11! WMD's! 9/11! Nucular Mushroom Cloud! 9/11! Evil Saddam! 9/11! Terrarist Links! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!!!!!!!!

They chumped most of America, including Congress and the Media, many of whom are still unwilling to admit they've been had...even after all of the pre-invasion justifications collapse, revealed as propaganda constructs.... Faulty intelligence? You bet, the same kind that charlatans and demagogues have preyed upon since the dawn of civilization...
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Blame the media, not the government.
 
Blame the Media, Tall Bill? You mean blame the deceived rather than the deceivers, the victims rather than the perpetrators?

Kinda like "She was just askin' for it, wearin' that miniskirt?"

How Lame.
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Blame the Media, Tall Bill? You mean blame the deceived rather than the deceivers, the victims rather than the perpetrators?

Kinda like "She was just askin' for it, wearin' that miniskirt?"

How Lame.
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What do you expect from the party that preaches "personal responsibility" yet takes "no responsibility"?

 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Blame the Media, Tall Bill? You mean blame the deceived rather than the deceivers, the victims rather than the perpetrators?

Kinda like "She was just askin' for it, wearin' that miniskirt?"

How Lame.
Click to expand...
Heh. I am completely against the Iraq "war" but I find this comment amusing in its ignorance. Given that the media loves wars, given that the media has a history of falsifying stories in order to create wars, I'd say it's more like "She was askin' for it, lying naked on her back with her legs spread screaming my name."

Are really so naive as to think that the media are just "the messengers"? Heh.

If 9/11 had not happened, I believe that about the only thing that would be different today is that the World Trade Center would still be standing.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Blame the Media, Tall Bill? You mean blame the deceived rather than the deceivers, the victims rather than the perpetrators?

Kinda like "She was just askin' for it, wearin' that miniskirt?"

How Lame.
Click to expand...
Heh. I am completely against the Iraq "war" but I find this comment amusing in its ignorance. Given that the media loves wars, given that the media has a history of falsifying stories in order to create wars, I'd say it's more like "She was askin' for it, lying naked on her back with her legs spread screaming my name."

Are really so naive as to think that the media are just "the messengers"? Heh.

If 9/11 had not happened, I believe that about the only thing that would be different today is that the World Trade Center would still be standing.
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And we would not be in Iraq and we would have completed the mission in Afghanistan. Etc, etc. The media does not make war, they just echoed the White House and in some caes (Judith Miller) contributed to the misinformation.
 
OMG, now "the media" is responsible for invading Iraq.

You people have passed the point of ridiculous.
 
Originally posted by: Todd33
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Blame the Media, Tall Bill? You mean blame the deceived rather than the deceivers, the victims rather than the perpetrators?

Kinda like "She was just askin' for it, wearin' that miniskirt?"

How Lame.
Click to expand...
Heh. I am completely against the Iraq "war" but I find this comment amusing in its ignorance. Given that the media loves wars, given that the media has a history of falsifying stories in order to create wars, I'd say it's more like "She was askin' for it, lying naked on her back with her legs spread screaming my name."

Are really so naive as to think that the media are just "the messengers"? Heh.

If 9/11 had not happened, I believe that about the only thing that would be different today is that the World Trade Center would still be standing.
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And we would not be in Iraq and we would have completed the mission in Afghanistan. Etc, etc. The media does not make war, they just echoed the White House and in some caes (Judith Miller) contributed to the misinformation.
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HAHAHAHAHA!!

The media has a long history of making war. Text

It's in their best interests. Nothing sells copy like a good war, not even a high-level scandal. Even better is a controversial war.
I'm not saying the media started the war, but I am saying that they certainly have never been against the idea. You might want to notice who owns the major media outlets as well, and what connections they have to defense industries.
In the meantime, if it hadn't been 9/11, it would have been something else. We were going.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
OMG, now "the media" is responsible for invading Iraq.

You people have passed the point of ridiculous.
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Now, now. I'm not saying that they were responsible. Just that they were by no means "chumped."
 
Originally posted by: Vic
In the meantime, if it hadn't been 9/11, it would have been something else. We were going.
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The PNAC crew in DC would have done their best to make that statement true.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
In the meantime, if it hadn't been 9/11, it would have been something else. We were going.
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eah right, how would they be able to sell it? If the American Public knew thewn what they know now we never have gone in on top of that we couldn't fathom how incompetent this administration is and would make such a huge blunder as they did with this Exellent Adventure in Iraq..
 
And besides, only in war is there enough tension and fear for me to feel somewhat alive. It helps me relive vicariously my childhood death without actually remembering it so I'm in love with it.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Vic
In the meantime, if it hadn't been 9/11, it would have been something else. We were going.
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eah right, how would they be able to sell it? If the American Public knew thewn what they know now we never have gone in on top of that we couldn't fathom how incompetent this administration is and would make such a huge blunder as they did with this Exellent Adventure in Iraq..
Click to expand...
It didn't take 9/11 the first time. Just an attack on a minor shiekdom with a human rights record worse than China and we were off and running.
It doesn't take much to make people afraid. People like to be afraid. They want something to fear. And nobody sells fear better than the media. That is all they do.

Hmm... this reminds me of my grandfather's last words, dying at the age of 94. "The problem is there is no problem." And that is a real problem indeed.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Vic
In the meantime, if it hadn't been 9/11, it would have been something else. We were going.
Click to expand...
eah right, how would they be able to sell it? If the American Public knew thewn what they know now we never have gone in on top of that we couldn't fathom how incompetent this administration is and would make such a huge blunder as they did with this Exellent Adventure in Iraq..
Click to expand...
It didn't take 9/11 the first time. Just an attack on a minor shiekdom with a human rights record worse than China and we were off and running.
It doesn't take much to make people afraid. People like to be afraid. They want something to fear. And nobody sells fear better than the media. That is all they do.

Hmm... this reminds me of my grandfather's last words, dying at the age of 94. "The problem is there is no problem." And that is a real problem indeed.
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Without 9/11 Americans would never had trusted Bush to wage war on amy nation. He wasn't voted in because he was well respected, he was voted in because he wasn't Al Gore.

 
His daddy wasn't well-respected either, he was just voted in because Michael Dukakis was no Jack Kennedy. And he had no problems waging war. Nor do I think 9/11 helped GW's re-election bid. The Pubs were not divided in 2004 like they were in '92.
 
We would have gone in no matter what. With Wolfowitz having the Prez ear as he does it wouldn't have take long.
 
Originally posted by: Remy XO
Most people can agree that we shouldn't have left Saddam in power in the 90's and most certainly the Bush family didn't think so either. How important was it to Bush junior to take out Saddam and could he have raged war on Iraq once more without a terrorist attack like 9/11?
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Its impossible to ever know. I think its certainly possible.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: BBond
OMG, now "the media" is responsible for invading Iraq.

You people have passed the point of ridiculous.
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Now, now. I'm not saying that they were responsible. Just that they were by no means "chumped."
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They were used and controlled by an administration that has a history of subverting and manipulating the press.

 
PS RemiXO

9/11 had NOTHING to do with Iraq because Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

That's exactly the type of manipulation Bush used to justify his unjustifiable invasion of Iraq.

And yes, the media repeated it because the media is bought and paid for by corporate interests.

Doesn't anyone remember the attacks against correspondents, both verbal and physical, who dared report what they saw with their own eyes in Iraq rather than the U.S. military press releases or those biased reports from "embeds"?
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: BBond
OMG, now "the media" is responsible for invading Iraq.

You people have passed the point of ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Now, now. I'm not saying that they were responsible. Just that they were by no means "chumped."
Click to expand...
They were used and controlled by an administration that has a history of subverting and manipulating the press.
Click to expand...
LOL. The poor press...
 
Doesn't anyone remember the attacks against correspondents, both verbal and physical, who dared report what they saw with their own eyes in Iraq rather than the U.S. military press releases or those biased reports from "embeds"?
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No, I dont remember. Please enlighten me. I do remember embeds blowing operational security. I'm sorry, but a units safety is more important then unrestricted news stories.
 
Originally posted by: TallBill
Doesn't anyone remember the attacks against correspondents, both verbal and physical, who dared report what they saw with their own eyes in Iraq rather than the U.S. military press releases or those biased reports from "embeds"?
Click to expand...

No, I dont remember. Please enlighten me. I do remember embeds blowing operational security. I'm sorry, but a units safety is more important then unrestricted news stories.
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Christiane Amanpour almost lost her job for reporting the truth about what was going on in Baghdad.

Charalambos Bikas did lose his.

Peter Arnett was fired by NBC for telling what we all know now is the truth about Iraq.

And let's not forget the U.S. military's attack on the Hotel Palestine that left three journalists dead.

As a matter of fact, more journalists have died so far in Iraq than during the entire Vietnam War.

 
Here's an article archived at Common Dreams that will refresh your memory. Amanpour made a comment about "disinformation at the highest levels" and was condemned for doing so. As we now know, there has indeed been a disinformation campaign waged by the U.S. military in Iraq.

Independent Press Was A Target In Iraq

It takes courage just to address the issue. Consider CNN's Christiane Amanpour's gutsy but controversial condemnation of "disinformation at the highest levels." Or Ashleigh Banfield's public criticism of "sanitized" coverage that probably cost her her job at MSNBC. They made clear there was an official determination to control the news at all costs.
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Read the rest of the article. It gives a chilling account of what was being done by the U.S. military to quiet the independent press and maintain "message control".



 
Originally posted by: Remy XO
Most people can agree that we shouldn't have left Saddam in power in the 90's and most certainly the Bush family didn't think so either. How important was it to Bush junior to take out Saddam and could he have raged war on Iraq once more without a terrorist attack like 9/11?
Click to expand...

The President would have found any excuse to finish what he feels is his fathers unfinished legacy, i.e. "My fellow Americans we have to go to war against Iraq because I know for a fact, confirmed and verified, that Sadaam Hussien looked cross eyed and stuck out his tongue at my photo."
 
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