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Does anyone feel like they are not complete unless they live in a big city?

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PrinceofWands said:
That's totally irrelevant. MOST of the country has prices comparable to here, not big cities. THAT is the point of this sub-discussion.

Now, you can personally choose to be ok with it. I even concede that you get some things in return (high concentration of entertainment and cultural locales, etc). None of that alters the fact that it's a financial loss however, out of step with earnings in the nation.
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Well, it really depends on what you do. My friends in finance literally made 3X as much in Toronto than they would in smaller cities, which isn't a huge surprise, since all the big finance deals in Canada occur in Toronto (or Calgary). Same goes for NYC in the US. You're not going to make it big as a corporate finance guy in Longview, WA.

For my job, I was making roughly 50% more in Toronto as I would than I would have in the city where I grew up (of 175000). However, that difference has been eliminated in recent years. So, if I lived now where I grew up, I'd have a much bigger place and could live much larger. But the city is simply too small for my tastes. I'd happily give up that extra money to live in a place I enjoy more.

BTW, living in a big city doesn't necessarily mean NYC or Toronto. There are lots of big cities in North America, and most have median rental costs higher than average.

If you love living there in Longview, then great, but a lot of people simply wouldn't, and would rather spend way more to live elsewhere.
 
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Eug said:
Well, I'm friendly with my neighbours, and was so even when I lived right smack downtown. However, overall, I generally prefer when people keep to themselves.

You'll find downtown in Toronto, people will happy give you directions if you ask for them, but they're not going to grab onto your hand and lead you across the street.

I don't like the fake friendliness that is often present in a lot of smaller towns (like when I lived in a city of 175000. Yeah, they bake you that pie, but use it as an excuse to check out your digs and see if you want to join their church or whatever.

As for the homeless, I do try to give a bit when I can, but I must admit I despise the squeegee kids.
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I'm the same. I like people keeping to themselves. And yes, I hate fake friendly.

I don't know though. Toronto is just kinda weird. When I first moved here, people seemed like straight up assholes, no joke. I'm used to it now though, so I notice less.
 
Eug said:
Well, it really depends on what you do. My friends in finance literally made 3X as much in Toronto than they would in smaller cities, which isn't a huge surprise, since all the big finance deals in Canada occur in Toronto (or Calgary). Same goes for NYC in the US. You're not going to make it big as a corporate finance guy in Longview, WA.

For my job, I was making roughly 50% more in Toronto as I would than I would have in the city where I grew up (of 175000). However, that difference has been eliminated in recent years. So, if I lived now where I grew up, I'd have a much bigger place and could live much larger. But the city is simply too small for my tastes. I'd happily give up that extra money to live in a place I enjoy more.

BTW, living in a big city doesn't necessarily mean NYC or Toronto. There are lots of big cities in North America, and most have median rental costs higher than average.

If you love living there in Longview, then great, but a lot of people simply wouldn't, and would rather spend way more to live elsewhere.
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Sure, but 99% of people aren't going to 'make it big' anywhere, regardless of what they do. Shit over 80% won't ever reach $50k, which is available in nearly any town of 5-10k or more. Anyone who thinks differently is delusional, because I have the census and irs data to back me up.

Understand I'm not suggesting you, or any people, shouldn't live in big cities. I don't like it, but I'm glad others do (keeps me from having to do it again). I'm merely pointing out the financial issues for the vast majority of people.

While it's true that NYC, LA, SF, etc are the extreme examples, most big cities are going to cost significantly more to live in than the other 99% of the country. You'll have more job opportunities, earning a higher wage, but seldom will the higher wage match the higher cost of living. It's almost always going to be a net loss unless you factor in preferential things.
 
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Well there are no shortage of assholes here in Toronto, but quite honestly I found it much worse in Montreal. However, in Montreal it was more a French vs. English thing. A lot of the Francophones (esp. outside downtown Montreal) just disliked Anglophones in general.

In downtown Toronto the biggest thing I hate the most these days are the dog-owning condo dwellers who don't pick up their dog shit. Many of the Toronto downtown city parks have become a minefield of dog shit. It's way worse now than it was 20 years ago.


PrinceofWands said:
Sure, but 99% of people aren't going to 'make it big' anywhere, regardless of what they do. Shit 80% won't ever reach $50k, which is available in nearly any town of 5-10k or more. Anyone who thinks differently is delusional, because I have the census and irs data to back me up.

Understand I'm not suggesting you, or any people, shouldn't live in big cities. I don't like it, but I'm glad others do (keeps me from having to do it again). I'm merely pointing out the financial issues for the vast majority of people.

While it's true that NYC, LA, SF, etc are the extreme examples, most big cities are going to cost significantly more to live in than the other 99% of the country. You'll have more job opportunities, earning a higher wage, but seldom will the higher wage match the higher cost of living. It's almost always going to be a net loss unless you factor in preferential things.
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It's the "preferential things" that make a huge difference, which is in large part why people like the big cities.

However, I agree, if I was going to be limited to an entry level salary, then I'd think hard about living in a place where the cost of living was much lower. OTOH, you don't even have to "make it big" to get a huge salary increases in certain fields. The question is how low are you going to aim? Are you going to be satisfied with an entry level salary, or are you aiming higher? If you're aiming higher then there's definitely more opportunity in larger centres in many if not most fields. The downside is that the competition in such places is often very high.

BTW, I was once offered a job fresh out of training in my home town. That actually surprised me, because I was less well trained than some of the others I knew who were interviewing for the position. I bluntly asked why they offered the job to me, and not to someone else with more training. They gave me an honest answer, which was that since I was from there, there would be more of a chance of me actually staying there long term, because I already knew what I'd be getting myself into. They had a problem with relatively high turnover. People saw it as a stepping stone to get to more popular cities, not as a place to settle down for a full career.

And then I turned down the job to come to Toronto for less than half the pay, to partially train a bit longer before I got a full-time position here.
 
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Houston > NYC, LA, SF

At least financially. Big law firms pay similarly for starting associates but cost of living is FAR cheaper in Houston. Similar situation for other professions like medicine.
 
IEC said:
Houston > NYC, LA, SF

At least financially. Big law firms pay similarly for starting associates but cost of living is FAR cheaper in Houston. Similar situation for other professions like medicine.
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Of course the down side (subjectively) is that you're then living in Houston (ie Texas). 😎

It's just like the big city vs rural preferences...some people think the south or the desert or the east coast or __________ (insert area here) is the best, and others would rather extract a testicle using an epilady souped up by Tim the Toolman.

Bottom line is people need to prioritize their needs, and then do what fulfills them. For some that means money hunting in the big city, while for others it means counting caribou in the Alaskan wilderness for minimum wage.
 
Eug said:
In downtown Toronto the biggest thing I hate the most these days are the dog-owning condo dwellers who don't pick up their dog shit. Many of the Toronto downtown city parks have become a minefield of dog shit. It's way worse now than it was 20 years ago.
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I have noticed this problem, but more on the actual streets than the parks. It's disgusting.
 
Eug said:
It's the "preferential things" that make a huge difference, which is in large part why people like the big cities.
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Absolutely true. In my own opinion they're about all that matters. That doesn't change facts however, which are good to be aware of.

BTW, preferences are also why people DON'T like big cities. They're pretty much why people like or don't like anything.

However, I agree, if I was going to be limited to an entry level salary, then I'd think hard about living in a place where the cost of living was much lower. OTOH, you don't even have to "make it big" to get a huge salary increases in certain fields. The question is how low are you going to aim? Are you going to be satisfied with an entry level salary, or are you aiming higher? If you're aiming higher then there's definitely more opportunity in larger centres in many if not most fields. The downside is that the competition in such places is often very high.

BTW, I was once offered a job fresh out of training in my home town. That actually surprised me, because I was less well trained than some of the others I knew who were interviewing for the position. I bluntly asked why they offered the job to me, and not to someone else with more training. They gave me an honest answer, which was that since I was from there, there would be more of a chance of me actually staying there long term, because I already knew what I'd be getting myself into. They had a problem with relatively high turnover. People saw it as a stepping stone to get to more popular cities, not as a place to settle down for a full career.

And then I turned the job to come to Toronto for less than half the pay, to partially train a bit longer before I got a full-time position here.
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*nod* I've been offered positions and opportunities all over that I've had to turn down...some really well paying, some not much better than what I've made where I am. For me, place matters far more than any other consideration.

I absolutely have to have certain environmental considerations met (cool, wet, green, near beach and mountains), won't go to a town/city larger than 50k (would STRONGLY prefer under 10k) and prefer to be near friends and family. Only after those three conditions are met will I consider other issues, like money or opportunities down the road.

I'd rather die alone in the woods than live in a palace in hell.
 
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kyrax12 said:
I mean I hate getting old. It sucks and it feels like I am missing out on a lot of cool experiences if I am not living in big cities like in San Francisco or in NYC.

Anyone feel this way too?

I certainly don't want to waste years off my life living in a small town or anything.
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Yeah I have the feeling that I'm missing out on a lot of stuff by not living in a big city..However I think a lot of movies and the media in general glorify the big city life - lots of money, shopping, eating out, clubs etc. Realistically, I don't think my life would be very different in a big city - Eat, sleep, work...
 
I've lived in Seoul and DC, but currently live in a city in Florida of pop. of about 180K. I didn't like living right in the geographic center of Seoul, but definitely preferred living in the outskirts of a bigger city than where I am now. I liked the convenience of public transport, having options of things to do on the weekend, and being around different cultures. I def. felt more 'alive' living in the city.
 
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I would only live in a city if I worked in a city.

Wait, I actually do live in a city, but it's Baltimore, which is barely a city. It does suck commuting to the suburbs to work, but at least it's the reverse of what traffic is doing, so it's an easy commute.
 
The more out in the country, the better for me. The more I think about retirement, the more I think about moving out to Montana or South/North Dakota. Fuck big cities - too many people, too high of cost of living, too much traffic, etc.
 
I prefer suburbs. I've lived in LA for a year, didn't like it. I've lived in NYC for two years, hated it beyond belief and it felt like prison. I grew up in socal, so relatively high density areas are fine for me, but living on top of people and having to deal with the crazies on a daily basis is seriously trying.
 
kyrax12 said:
I mean I hate getting old. It sucks and it feels like I am missing out on a lot of cool experiences if I am not living in big cities like in San Francisco or in NYC.

Anyone feel this way too?

I certainly don't want to waste years off my life living in a small town or anything.
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Recognizing that this is likely a troll thread - someone should live where they personally are the most comfortable. There is no one size fits all solution. I personally am much happier in a small town that I ever was living in a big city (I've lived in DC and Boston). The pace of life in a small town is much more suited to my personality, and I love to get out in the "great outdoors."

Those who say that there is nothing to do in a small town are simply wrong. There is plenty to do. You just need to be willing to entertain yourself instead of going somewhere to have someone entertain you.
 
Sho'Nuff said:
(I've lived in DC and Boston)
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I lived in those two big cities myself. Don't miss them much at all. I'll take the slower pace of a small town even with its "detractions", such as having to drive a bit to get to a Microcenter or the like.

Quieter, slower pace, lower taxes, friendlier people, not having my neighbor being able to look into my windows, having some real property instead of those postage stamps people call a "building lot", or worse yet, townhouses....cannot convince me to ever move back to somewhere like DC, Boston, ATL, Tampa, or even San Antonio (some of the "big cities" I've inhabited.)

But when you're young, sure, a big city can seem to be where it's at, and I understand it. I didn't seem to mind DC, Boston, et al, when I was in my 20's. Today, not a chance.
 
Imp said:
That's the only reason I want to move out of the big city. Cost of living is ridiculous unless married or partnering up.
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My buddy graduated in graphic design in NYC and they started him out at $25/hr. I started congratulating him but he was like dude, that means I still have to live with my parents...$25/hr doesn't get you squat in the city.

Dang 🙁
 
kyrax12 said:
I mean I hate getting old. It sucks and it feels like I am missing out on a lot of cool experiences if I am not living in big cities like in San Francisco or in NYC.

Anyone feel this way too?

I certainly don't want to waste years off my life living in a small town or anything.
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Cities are nice places to visit. I love going to New York City and seeing a play or some live jazz. But I like living 40 minutes from Rocky Mountain National park a hell of a lot more than I'd like living close to 200 bars and 100 pizza joints. I went to school in a city and wish that I'd have attended a small college in the sticks. One thing you learn very quickly is that you can feel even more alone in a city of millions than you can in a village of hundreds.
 
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