Does anyone feel like they are not complete unless they live in a big city?

[Imp]

Cost of living is also through the roof.

That's the only reason I want to move out of the big city. Cost of living is ridiculous unless married or partnering up.

 

[PrinceofWands]

That's the only reason I want to move out of the big city. Cost of living is ridiculous unless married or partnering up.

Oh it's still ridiculous. I just read that average rent is now ~$3000/mo in NY. It's $804 on average nationally. There no longer ANY similarity between being in a city and being anywhere else when talking about money.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Oh it's still ridiculous. I just read that average rent is now ~$3000/mo in NY. It's $804 on average nationally. There no longer ANY similarity between being in a city and being anywhere else when talking about money.

if you live in a city youre going to get paid more though

 

[ABC10]

I mean I hate getting old. It sucks and it feels like I am missing out on a lot of cool experiences if I am not living in big cities like in San Francisco or in NYC.

Anyone feel this way too?

I certainly don't want to waste years off my life living in a small town or anything.

I am a confirmed Urbanite. I am in Sin City and it is NYC West without the crime, dirt and garbage with 340 plus days of sunshine. When I roll out the door, I want my coffee shoppe, drugstore, restaurants, dry cleaners to be down the street. And the action of entertainment and casinos. It's great! The average rent out here is $900 for a big 2 bedroom/2 bath apartment with pool and NO state income tax. The 1 bedroom is about $700. NYC and San Fran are not the only games in the country. Excellent road system with Left Hand turn lanes everywhere. A terrific bus system too. I too have Road Assistance when needed. We have 3 million in Vegas and the infrastructure to support it.
Forget NYC, we are living in paradise out here in Las Vegas.

 

[StinkyPinky]

My perfect sized city would be about 500k. Big enough to have all the stuff you need but small enough that it doesn't have a lot of the problems cities 1m+ have.

 

[PrinceofWands]

if you live in a city youre going to get paid more though

True, but four times as much? Minimum wage here is ~$9/hr. Does that mean that in NYC a gas station attendant makes $36/hr? If not then it doesn't matter if you make more when cost of living so far outstrips earnings.

~55% of the country makes less than $30k/yr. That makes it the baseline for all affordability assumptions.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

True, but four times as much? Minimum wage here is ~$9/hr. Does that mean that in NYC a gas station attendant makes $36/hr? If not then it doesn't matter if you make more when cost of living so far outstrips earnings.

~55% of the country makes less than $30k/yr. That makes it the baseline for all affordability assumptions.

i dont thinks its four times as expensive. you can factor other things in also, like perhaps lowered transportation/parking costs if you can walk or bike to work, time saved and higher density of ballable chix. i used to spend an hour and a half each way commuting, now i spend 15 minutes, that alone is worth $1000 a month

 

[ViviTheMage]

I find that bigger cities are like the internet today ... very fast paced, and people are just out to troll you.

In small towns its like its the 90's in the internet era, everyones still pretty nice and are genuinely helpful.

 

[PrinceofWands]

i dont thinks its four times as expensive. you can factor other things in also, like perhaps lowered transportation/parking costs if you can walk or bike to work

Rent is 4-5 times as much on average. There are no parking costs here, but we could look at having viable public transit versus needing a private vehicle (with gas, insurance, maintenance, etc). I doubt very seriously if you'll be able to offset 400% in housing costs even if you combine everything else however.

 

[Eug]

I grew up in a city of about 175000 people.

Now, if the city is smaller than 1 million, it's way too small for me. Several million is ideal.

Note though, I don't live in downtown Toronto anymore. I live in what is called the "inner suburbs". It's within the city limits, and close to everything, but the neighbourhoods are residential with single family dwellings.

20 minute drive downtown, with all the amenities available. ie. If someone wants to meet me at a nice restaurant downtown, I can just go and not have to think too much about my itinerary. I would have a harder time living in the suburbs with long commute times to all the amenities.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Rent is 4-5 times as much on average. There are no parking costs here, but we could look at having viable public transit versus needing a private vehicle (with gas, insurance, maintenance, etc). I doubt very seriously if you'll be able to offset 400% in housing costs even if you combine everything else however.

i would guess the average rent in san francisco is 2200 and average rent is a smaller city in the bay area is about 1400, thats not even twice as much, and like i said youre saving a lot on commuting and parking and time, so its not that clear that its much more expensive

 

[Eug]

Note that rents for identical units are often astronomically higher in the nice parts of large cities, compared to the suburbs. However, the actual rents aren't going to be those numbers because people just get smaller places. Obviously, you're not going to rent an 2800 square foot townhouse downtown if you can't afford it. You go smaller. You lose out on space, but you gain on amenities.

I used to do my grocery shopping at 3 am across the street from my apt, just because I could. When I bought my downtown condo, I used to go to Home Depot at 1 am to buy light fixtures and paint supplies.

 

[Red Squirrel]

What's crazy is when rent in some places is double what I pay for my mortgage here. Would not see me move in a big city. Heck, I make slightly over 3k/mo, I can't imagine paying that for rent, knowing that I will never own the place and it's only going to go up over time like everything does, while my salary stays the same. Raises and bonuses are a thing of the past. Companies are cutting back more than ever these days.

 

[Eug]

What's crazy is when rent in some places is double what I pay for my mortgage here. Would not see me move in a big city. Heck, I make slightly over 3k/mo, I can't imagine paying that for rent, knowing that I will never own the place and it's only going to go up over time like everything does, while my salary stays the same. Raises and bonuses are a thing of the past. Companies are cutting back more than ever these days.

In a lot of fields, the pay is indeed significantly higher in the city. However, that's also not true for many other fields. The other point is it depends on your pay scale how much the rent affects you.

For example, if you are paying $800 in rent in the burbs, you might need to factor in another $200 for transportation, plus your time. Even if the city rent is $1400, it's effectively only a couple of hundred more per month, but if you're making $5000 per month that few hundred isn't that bad.

The downside is that not only does housing cost more, a lot of other stuff costs more. Plumbers and electricians and hairdressers and restaurants, etc. also often cost more.

 

[PrinceofWands]

i would guess the average rent in san francisco is 2200 and average rent is a smaller city in the bay area is about 1400, thats not even twice as much, and like i said youre saving a lot on commuting and parking and time, so its not that clear that its much more expensive

Quit cherry picking or being dense. Also quit 'guessing', which is utterly worthless, and use available verified data.

Average rent in NYC is now over $3000. Average rent nationally is $800. Average rent in my town (Longview Wa) is $750. Do the math.

Then realize that for those to be the average numbers there must be numbers both above and below...meaning I could find a town with average rent closer to $400 or $500, and compare it to areas in NYC that average $4000 or more...but that's disingenuous. I'm using raw averages.

 

[Eug]

Quit cherry picking or being dense. Also quit 'guessing', which is utterly worthless, and use available verified data.

Average rent in NYC is now over $3000. Average rent nationally is $800. Average rent in my town (Longview Wa) is $750. Do the math.

Then realize that for those to be the average numbers there must be numbers both above and below...meaning I could find a town with average rent closer to $400 or $500, and compare it to areas in NYC that average $4000 or more...but that's disingenuous. I'm using raw averages.

Averages aren't very good for this type of comparison. Median rents are usually much more meaningful. Cuz in New York you have people paying $10000/mo for rent, and that skews the averages.

 

[Turbonium]

In my experience crowding, which of course is amplified in large cities, makes people go feral. They become bastards, assholes, shit heads. I first noticed this in Toronto, but it happens elsewhere. I myself become more of one even when in a crowded area of people. It's due to lack of space and the feeling one needs to defend what little they have.

So, to answer OP, I can understand maybe why he'd think this way, but I absolutely don't. I think on the contrary people are wasting their lives in crowded cities. They have no room and if the city doesn't have good transportation (e.g. Atlanta), then huge amounts of one's life are wasted behind the wheel of a car.

I have a large house, large yard, it is quiet, the only noises ever from outside are the occasional child playing.

Ideally one lives on the outskirts of a large city and they work on its outskirts, too. This way they can get into it/buy whatever if they need to, but generally need not have any interaction with it. If I didn't live in the suburbs, I'd rather live rural. The best neighbors are none at all.

Also, when the zombies come the cities fall first.

Yes, I suppose it's a way to protect oneself. Self-preservation and such.

The thing is though, I just get the feeling everyone is out in this giant rat race sort of thing, trying to make as much money as possible. It's a weird feeling. It's basically like the perfect example of how the world really works. It's very materialistic.

I mean, there are condo units selling for hundreds of thousands to well into the millions for just a few hundred square feet at times, where people live in their decked out pads with their expensive wines and such, while just outside on the street (literally steps from the condo building entrance), there are homeless people barely managing to stay nourished and sheltered. It's especially troubling during the harsh Canadian winter.

I always feel bad walking past all the troubled people, heading back to my place, especially when I'm carrying groceries or food. I don't know, maybe I'm rare in that I'm really aware of these problems and such. I get the feeling that the vast majority of relatively rich folk don't even give it a thought though.

Note that rents for identical units are often astronomically higher in the nice parts of large cities, compared to the suburbs. However, the actual rents aren't going to be those numbers because people just get smaller places. Obviously, you're not going to rent an 2800 square foot townhouse downtown if you can't afford it. You go smaller. You lose out on space, but you gain on amenities.

I used to do my grocery shopping at 3 am across the street from my apt, just because I could. When I bought my downtown condo, I used to go to Home Depot at 1 am to buy light fixtures and paint supplies.

My rent is a lot for the square footage I got, but that is to be expected, considering I'm so close to Yonge Street, and quite literally a few minutes from most major amenities. Grocery stores, hardware stores, entertainment, restaurants. That sort of thing.

I still can't figure out why they turn off the central AC unit in this building so early though. It's weird because the hallways are still nice and cool, but the units themselves no longer have working AC. And it's not like there's old people in this building... they're mostly people my age. I find it especially annoying since I have at least 4 computers running at any given time, so things get rather warm. But I digress.

TL;DR: big cities are materialistic shitholes where the only thing that matters is money. It's basically a super concentrated model of the world itself on the whole, and it's eye-opening and depressing at the same time.

 

[Eug]

Well, I'm friendly with my neighbours, and was so even when I lived right smack downtown. However, overall, I generally prefer when people keep to themselves.

You'll find downtown in Toronto, people will happy give you directions if you ask for them, but they're not going to grab onto your hand and lead you across the street.

I don't like the fake friendliness that is often present in a lot of smaller towns (like when I lived in a city of 175000. Yeah, they bake you that pie, but use it as an excuse to check out your digs and see if you want to join their church or whatever.

As for the homeless, I do try to give a bit when I can, but I must admit I despise the squeegee kids.

 

[sjwaste]

I go back and forth on this. I moved from a small home in Arlington, VA (near the metro, well inside the beltway, could almost walk to DC) to a small town in Maine about 20 mins from Portland (a small city in and of itself). I miss walking places, having things open at all hours, etc. On the other hand, I have half an acre, 3x the living space, and we can walk to the beach. Plus, we have a kid, so it's not like we'd be heading out to the bar at 10pm anymore. My house here cost significantly less than my place in Ballston did, too. So who knows, I miss the city, but it could just be that I miss that earlier phase in life.

 

[IEC]

Well, I'm friendly with my neighbours, and was so even when I lived right smack downtown. However, overall, I generally prefer when people keep to themselves.

You'll find downtown in Toronto, people will happy give you directions if you ask for them, but they're not going to grab onto your hand and lead you across the street.

I don't like the fake friendliness that is often present in a lot of smaller towns (like when I lived in a city of 175000. Yeah, they bake you that pie, but use it as an excuse to check out your digs and see if you want to join their church or whatever.

As for the homeless, I do try to give a bit when I can, but I must admit I despise the squeegee kids.

City of 175000 is not a "smaller town". LOL

 

[Eug]

City of 175000 is not a "smaller town". LOL

It is to me. Or if you prefer, "smaller city" then. In fact, anything under a million often feels small to me.

OTOH, over 10 million and it probably is too big to me.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Averages aren't very good for this type of comparison. Median rents are usually much more meaningful. Cuz in New York you have people paying $10000/mo for rent, and that skews the averages.

Well sure, but the article that sparked the comment was about averages, which is why we're talking about it. But if you'd rather talk medians:

http://blog.zumper.com/post/57105608274/median-rents-in-nyc-neighborhoods-july-2013

http://www.areavibes.com/longview-wa/housing/

They're the same or higher in NYC, and roughly the same in my area ($650, so you're still 4-10 times as much in NYC as here, and all my points stand.

 

[sao123]

Dafuq I would live the wilderness where I can clearly see stars at night if I had the same access to income and services.

this.


I like to live in places where my next door neighbor's house is not anywhere within sight of my house.

 

[Eug]

I don't think I could hack living in Longview, WA for the rest of my life. Hell, I even found Vancouver, BC a bit small at times.

So, yeah, I'd rather spend 4X the amount on rent to live in NYC than live in Longview, WA.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I don't think I could hack living in Longview, WA for the rest of my life. Hell, I even found Vancouver, BC a bit small at times.

So, yeah, I'd rather spend 4X the amount on rent to live in NYC than live in Longview, WA.

That's totally irrelevant. MOST of the country has prices comparable to here, not big cities. THAT is the point of this sub-discussion.

Now, you can personally choose to be ok with it. I even concede that you get some things in return (high concentration of entertainment and cultural locales, etc). None of that alters the fact that it's a financial loss however, out of step with earnings in the nation.