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Does anyone buy the Democratic demagoguery?

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By coming up with facts...you mean linking sources...
By brainwashed by queen do you mean spending time on US sites reading articles?
By in the Bush admin do you realize i disagree with a lot he has proposed.
By changing the subject off health you mean changing the subject back on track...what the thread itself says...

then YES 🙂

There is no win or lose in these arguments...just two losers for wasting their time arguing pointless stuff...hoping to enlighten the other but in the end just getting annoied and giving up.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
lol, you and rabid have major beef with me...always turns into a canada vs US thing...

i can conceed that we are not perfect, and i think i have done the same for the US...
we could argue all day over the same stuff...rabid and i have had our fair share...
always goes nowhere...really isn't worth it...
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I don't have a personal beef with you at all. However, I find many of your statements incorrect in my view and your logic strange at times. Personally, I think you have a little too much nationalistic pride.

One example that I don't understand about you:
You bring up "ery few people change class these days in your country...so much for the american dream." and provide no fact or backing of this statement. Canoworms states the opposite and says that it's his opinion and now all of a sudden he has to provide facts for this? Why didn't you?

I also find that you switch around arguments so much once a point that you have made has been disproven. It's pretty strange.
 
I'm less nationalistic than most canadians...
and i'd consider moving to the US...many people won't.

a lot of my examples come from here...just cuz they are the ones i know best...the rest is data and info from the internet.
i think i have contributed to this thread, helping a few americans to see where the tax breaks are going...or not going in some cases...

not my fault if i get a personal attack or two when such people as charrison can't respond or make a valid arguement.
 
Canadians are not only ones known to be patriotic...hrm...who is it...some country with a big miltary...red white and hrm what is that other colour...hehe...jk
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Canadians are not only ones known to be patriotic...hrm...who is it...some country with a big miltary...red white and hrm what is that other colour...hehe...jk
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According to traditional breakdowns, patriotic is more associated with love of country, and nationalistic is more associated with blind tolerance of whatever your country does.

Sadly, the two have swapped definitions more than once over time, so it's always hard to pin down what someone means by either term.
 
ic...well i'm not blind as i am very critical of my country...almost as much as the US...heh...
I do love canada though...i've had a great life so far...hope it continues...

so rabid was it an insult to my intelligence or a comment on my pride as a citizen...
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
There is much movement between the classes. You only haveto live here to see it.
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Say what???
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I have seen people get rich and I have seen people get poor. I have seen far more do well for themselves.
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Of the former, what percentage would that be? 1 out of 1,000? 1 out of 10,000? That doesn't happen that often.


Of the latter, what was their class level before? People tend to end up in the same wealth level into which they were born.
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I myself have gone from the bottom 1/5 to the top 1/5. I know quite a few others with similar stories. I know others make bad decision and stay at the bottom. Wealth is not a guarantee, just ask ken lay😀
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if you came from bottom 1/5 how do you like the lack of tax cuts for low income earners.
oh right...how does that help your life...whatever is better for you i guess...
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The bottom tax rate was reduced from 15% to 10%. I would not call that a small tax cut for those in that bracket. The poor pay a limited amount in taxes, so it is difficult to give them large tax breaks.
 
Ouch...
im hurt...rabid...

i do contribute to the conversation...even if i get defensive on some aspects of my country...as do you...
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People are rich because they are ambitious and want money. They are competitively driven. Therefore it's is important to tax them mightily. The less they can take home the harder they will work to amass a fortune and the more they will pay in tax. So high taxes benefits them by honing their competitive capabilities and it helps the rest of the slugs with a gravy train of tax money to spent creating a beautiful country for the rich to try to own. An unmilked cow suffers utterly and eventually dries up.
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"A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally has no internal feedback for self correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens...which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it...which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses'

"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."
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- Heinlein
 
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People are rich because they are ambitious and want money. They are competitively driven. Therefore it's is important to tax them mightily. The less they can take home the harder they will work to amass a fortune and the more they will pay in tax. So high taxes benefits them by honing their competitive capabilities and it helps the rest of the slugs with a gravy train of tax money to spent creating a beautiful country for the rich to try to own. An unmilked cow suffers utterly and eventually dries up.
Click to expand...
"A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally has no internal feedback for self correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens...which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it...which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses'

"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."
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- Heinlein
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Isn't this a rather shallow analysis? How can a democracy often function at first if it is a democracy. What are these democracies that go from wise to warm bodied self interested. How did the vote evolve or change in Rome and here and elsewhere. Clearly, it seems to me, that only that democracy that is based on the general good can succeed, but what is the difference in people. What is a warm body compared to one that is wise. While what Heinlein said may be true, it also strikes me as empty. It tells us nothing about the mature of man. Why does one man care for others and another only for (what he must imagine is) his self interest. The question, it seems, is what is the good, and this is a question for every form of government there will ever be, no?
 
Stunt,
I've got your back man.

Link

It's called intergenerational class mobility, not elasticity. That's why your searches weren't woking.

This one is all pretty and easy to read. If anyone doubts the source, I can provide academic articles including regression models and data sources.
 
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