Documentary on Chinese Gold Farmers in WoW

[fs5]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ho5Yxe6UVv4

At one point the guy says something about people calling him a Chinese Gold farmer makes him feel inferior. Well if they wouldn't freakin' ninja items on raids I wouldn't be adverse to PUG with rogues named Xai or WeiWei!

<- chinese, but not a gold farmer

Here's another video I found that shows, an alledged chines gold farmer, teleport hacking DM for full tribute run.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-530519624422454044&q=w

 

[CKent]

The firms they work for likely tell them to wait and then roll need... that it's polite or something. That, or common sense does (it does make sense to use to loot-distribution tools which are there). If they don't understand English, they won't even realize they're ninjalooting... I don't blame them at all, especially considering China is largely poor and it's a good way to make some money. I blame the morons who buy gold.

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: RBachman
The firms they work for likely tell them to wait and then roll need... that it's polite or something. That, or common sense does (it does make sense to use to loot-distribution tools which are there). If they don't understand English, they won't even realize they're ninjalooting... I don't blame them at all, especially considering China is largely poor and it's a good way to make some money. I blame the morons who buy gold.

I'm not blaming anybody, but they know the mechnics of the game. There are mmorpg games over there and the rules are the same. I've had it happen to many times to invite a known gold farmer into a raid again.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: RBachman
I blame the morons who buy gold.

Bingo. It's the people who buy the damn E-Bay gold(E-gold) that create the market for the famers. I pity anyone who does not use Master Loot beyond deadmines/wailing caverns... In a raid...Master Loot + /roll (for the appropriate classes)= the only way to play in groups.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: RBachman
The firms they work for likely tell them to wait and then roll need... that it's polite or something. That, or common sense does (it does make sense to use to loot-distribution tools which are there). If they don't understand English, they won't even realize they're ninjalooting... I don't blame them at all, especially considering China is largely poor and it's a good way to make some money. I blame the morons who buy gold.

I'm not blaming anybody, but they know the mechnics of the game. There are mmorpg games over there and the rules are the same. I've had it happen to many times to invite a known gold farmer into a raid again.

Doesn't having a master looter solve most problems?

 

[Drakkon]

yay for the chinese for finding a way to exploit the american lust for frivilant thigns like these games and "money" inside of them. Its just a game...

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
yay for the chinese for finding a way to exploit the american lust for frivilant thigns like these games and "money" inside of them. Its just a game...

It's just a game............ but they're making a lot of money! I mean a lot! I personally knwo of people who spend anywhere from $100.00 - $300.00 on gold alone every few months. And they know people in their guilds that pay $ out the ass for gold. I'm assuming that a gold farmer/business can easily achieve several thousand dollars a day from selling gold.

 

[Drakkon]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: Drakkon
yay for the chinese for finding a way to exploit the american lust for frivilant thigns like these games and "money" inside of them. Its just a game...

It's just a game............ but they're making a lot of money! I mean a lot! I personally knwo of people who spend anywhere from $100.00 - $300.00 on gold alone every few months. And they know people in their guilds that pay $ out the ass for gold. I'm assuming that a gold farmer/business can easily achieve several thousand dollars a day from selling gold.

and? isnt that american capitolism at its best? i fail to see how thats "wrong"...for this to be going on in a communist country is kinda heartwarming, they are finding a way to make money outside of govt restrictions and exploiting it, same as any american would (which id be surprized if there aren't already a few that are)

 

[TGS]

Well the only thing I see "wrong" with it, is that people are so damn lazy they can't even play a game and pay real currency for others to play the game for them. I will never understand why if people don't have the time, they even go to the lengths to pay someone to do it for them...

I recently blew a guy off that was a long time e-gold buyer. We played in CoH, and moved on to WoW. Once we hit WoW he went nuts on e-gold. Every paycheck he was dropping at least 100 bucks for e-gold. Now after I've hit 60, had some mid 40 alts and so on, we moved to a new PvE server. Where once again, e-gold fever struck. He was paying people gold to run him through Ragefire Chasm... I mean literally stand behind a high level guy and just looting... It's ridiculous. People just need to stop playing if they don't have the time, or find a game that fits their schedule. It just makes the game economies skewed out of balance. Due to the fact the farmers can raise prices to obscene levels and the e-gold crowd will always pay their price. There's just no competing against someone with e-gold in getting items.

Edit: Another way to phrase it would be like this. For FPS games, aimbots and wallhacks are considered cheats. For MMO's e-gold is another form of cheating. Along with bots, macros, and third party tools. Going outside the game to get an unfair advantage over another player is akin to wallhacking or aimbotting in FPS. People should play within the bounds of the game the developers created.

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: cKGunslingerDoesn't having a master looter solve most problems?

No, becuase people on my server don't like doing groups with master loot on.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslingerDoesn't having a master looter solve most problems?

No, becuase people on my server don't like doing groups with master loot on.

"Don't touch the eggs"
"Kill the flame/firetongues first"
"Make sure your pet is on passive when we go into the baron's room"

Just a few non loot-related examples where not knowing English can screw a raid.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslingerDoesn't having a master looter solve most problems?

No, becuase people on my server don't like doing groups with master loot on.

No offense, but that sounds like a really poor community on that server. I mean, isn't it easier to trust 1 single person on the run to be fair, as opposed to trusting that all the other 4-9 party members are going to play fair?

I've yet to make any mid-to-high level runs on group loot. There's just too much room for abuse and/or accidents, like looting after a wipe and some people don't get a roll, to rolling "need" on the Big Brop, etc. I'm at the point where all my runs are guild and friends-list runs, but even in PUGs you need a ML. Especially in PUGs.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslingerDoesn't having a master looter solve most problems?

No, becuase people on my server don't like doing groups with master loot on.

"Don't touch the eggs"
"Kill the flame/firetongues first"
"Make sure your pet is on passive when we go into the baron's room"

Just a few non loot-related examples where not knowing English can screw a raid.

I think the issue at hand is gold farmers/ninjas with loot, not English deficiencies on game strategies.

 

[JDrake]

What's the problem? That'd be an awesome job

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslingerDoesn't having a master looter solve most problems?

No, becuase people on my server don't like doing groups with master loot on.

"Don't touch the eggs"
"Kill the flame/firetongues first"
"Make sure your pet is on passive when we go into the baron's room"

Just a few non loot-related examples where not knowing English can screw a raid.

I think the issue at hand is gold farmers/ninjas with loot, not English deficiencies on game strategies.

Need to succeed in order to have the aforementioned loot up for distribution..

 

[Powermoloch]

way to make money :Q

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
No offense, but that sounds like a really poor community on that server. I mean, isn't it easier to trust 1 single person on the run to be fair, as opposed to trusting that all the other 4-9 party members are going to play fair?

I've yet to make any mid-to-high level runs on group loot. There's just too much room for abuse and/or accidents, like looting after a wipe and some people don't get a roll, to rolling "need" on the Big Brop, etc. I'm at the point where all my runs are guild and friends-list runs, but even in PUGs you need a ML. Especially in PUGs.

You mean even with your guild and friends you ML? That's what I call a bad community, you should be able to trust everybody and do group loot. Make things easier and goes faster.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I'm kind of torn on the gold buying issue. In the past, when I had all the free time in the world, I ranted and raved about people who bought gold. 'Why oh why would you pay someone to play the game for you!!?!'

Well, then I realized that there are multiple parts to a massive. You've got the grind and then you've got the end game and maybe you've got some pvp to gear for. Well, what if you have a person who works 50ish hours a week, has a family, but still wants to enjoy some high end raiding and/or pvp without giving up a majority of his home life to get there? I don't see any problem with that guy paying someone to help him get to the parts he actually cares about in the game.

A lot of people say that the problem is with the people who buy the gold and not the people who sell the gold. I believe it's a game design flaw more than anything else. If people need to pay other people just so they can get to a part of your game that they enjoy then that is the designer's problem.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: RBachman
The firms they work for likely tell them to wait and then roll need... that it's polite or something. That, or common sense does (it does make sense to use to loot-distribution tools which are there). If they don't understand English, they won't even realize they're ninjalooting... I don't blame them at all, especially considering China is largely poor and it's a good way to make some money. I blame the morons who buy gold.

I'm not blaming anybody, but they know the mechnics of the game. There are mmorpg games over there and the rules are the same. I've had it happen to many times to invite a known gold farmer into a raid again.

Um, then you're an idiot for inviting a known gold farmer into a raid...

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: Drakkon
yay for the chinese for finding a way to exploit the american lust for frivilant thigns like these games and "money" inside of them. Its just a game...

It's just a game............ but they're making a lot of money! I mean a lot! I personally knwo of people who spend anywhere from $100.00 - $300.00 on gold alone every few months. And they know people in their guilds that pay $ out the ass for gold. I'm assuming that a gold farmer/business can easily achieve several thousand dollars a day from selling gold.

People pay $100+ tickets to watch people throw balls into a hoop for a few hours... how is that any better?

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm kind of torn on the gold buying issue. In the past, when I had all the free time in the world, I ranted and raved about people who bought gold. 'Why oh why would you pay someone to play the game for you!!?!'

Well, then I realized that there are multiple parts to a massive. You've got the grind and then you've got the end game and maybe you've got some pvp to gear for. Well, what if you have a person who works 50ish hours a week, has a family, but still wants to enjoy some high end raiding and/or pvp without giving up a majority of his home life to get there? I don't see any problem with that guy paying someone to help him get to the parts he actually cares about in the game.

A lot of people say that the problem is with the people who buy the gold and not the people who sell the gold. I believe it's a game design flaw more than anything else. If people need to pay other people just so they can get to a part of your game that they enjoy then that is the designer's problem.

That's the problem. Why do people have to get other people to play the game, and they step in when it's convienant? It's still an outside influence to the game. I mean is it neccesary to have a epic geared out character doing BWL/MC runs to have fun? I personally find it a more enjoyable experience to do it myself. Hence the reason behind actually playing the game. If I don't have time, which I ran into for my last guild, I left. I didn't hire some gold farmer or secondary player to keep my guy current. I dropped the guild and moved on.

I mean if people don't enjoy parts of the game, why not just play on a private server and you will always have a (max level) character with the best equipment in the game. It's less mess, and you don't pay a dime. It seems like if a baseball player really liked batting, but didn't care for running the bases. To which he got a designated runner to run the bases for him all the time.

 

[edtsui]

I view the issue as more of RL economical decision. I have a few friends who have done it before and yes they are the ones that work 40+ hr weeks. They have very tight schedules for raids and the way they've explained it to me which I tend to agree with is that its just a time efficiency thing. 1000 gold sells for roughly 40 dollars on most fairly seasoned populated servers, the time they would have to spend farming that gold is more valuable than that 40 dollars, so they choose to pay it.

Looking at it from strictly an economical viewpoint, I agree with it. The ethical issues I'm still iffy on but I'm not really seeing the effects of it. The economy isn't massively inflated.

Just my 2 copper.

 

[Yreka]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: Drakkon
yay for the chinese for finding a way to exploit the american lust for frivilant thigns like these games and "money" inside of them. Its just a game...

It's just a game............ but they're making a lot of money! I mean a lot! I personally knwo of people who spend anywhere from $100.00 - $300.00 on gold alone every few months. And they know people in their guilds that pay $ out the ass for gold. I'm assuming that a gold farmer/business can easily achieve several thousand dollars a day from selling gold.

People pay $100+ tickets to watch people throw balls into a hoop for a few hours... how is that any better?

People going to ballgames can do so without affecting the enjoyment of other sports fans. *unless they are aholes, then that is a different story*

The argument against gold farmers *as I understand it* is they affect the game negatively for the regular players. Gold, mobs, nodes*EQ2* are a finite resource. If you have kikiki the tank and wiwiwi the healer parked on the spawns all day, then you and I cannot get the rares to make our armor, or that last mob to complete a quest.

Not only that, but flooding the game with plat (gold) whatever increases inflation in the game market. Spawns and droprates are set up assuming normal play hours, but now you have people parked on those spots 24hrs 3/shifts a day.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
No offense, but that sounds like a really poor community on that server. I mean, isn't it easier to trust 1 single person on the run to be fair, as opposed to trusting that all the other 4-9 party members are going to play fair?

I've yet to make any mid-to-high level runs on group loot. There's just too much room for abuse and/or accidents, like looting after a wipe and some people don't get a roll, to rolling "need" on the Big Brop, etc. I'm at the point where all my runs are guild and friends-list runs, but even in PUGs you need a ML. Especially in PUGs.

You mean even with your guild and friends you ML? That's what I call a bad community, you should be able to trust everybody and do group loot. Make things easier and goes faster.

Yeah, ML is the fastest and most convenient loot system. Those "Need" and "Greed" buttons are close enough together that accidents can, and do happen. Then you have people acccidently looting, not realizing that one or more member has died and is out of the instance, making a run back. You know what happens then? Often times, he's off the loot table and is ineligble for the roll.

Then you have DKP to deal with on major runs. The ML has the list of DKP so he can fairly distribute loot. I mean, if I "think" I have enough points and roll need, but then I soon realize that I'm short or I don't need the item, or I already got my one blue this run, there are no mechanisms in-game on a rolling system to prevent that once I hit that button. I've just unintentially screwed the rightful winner out of his loot.

With Master Loot, the ML can check his list and tell eveyone who can roll, or ignore rolls that don't count. Convenience comes from having one member who wants to deal with loot and all its associated issues, rather than having each and every raid member be on top of it at all times. Having him pick up bijous, coins, and other BoPs, and distributing them at the end of the run makes things go a *lot* faster than having to distribute them on the fly, after each and every pull.

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I think one way WoW could help reduce this problem would be to institute non-epic servers for the more casual player. That would alleviate any problem I have with the game and would possibly reduce the effect of gold farming.