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Doctors Cannot Withold Care Based on Religious Belief

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Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

You know they artificially inseminated her the same way they artificially inseminate straight women, right? Do you find that 'rather sick on the face of it'?

Butterbean, I'm just wondering what you think about this. Did you know that right now... right this minute... hundreds of thousands of gay people around the world are having fabulous gay sex as I type this? That they're raising kids, they're having families, and above all else... the straight people are starting to love them for it. All your future holds is more and more fags having more and more i love you sex, raising more and more children, and having more and more people approve of it. It's only going to get worse from here for you. This thought makes me happy.

(or better I guess... a lot of people with your degree of homophobia are just repressed homosexuals. don't hate yourself!)

eskimospy - why waste your time on a person who is quite clearly trolling.....

It's not a waste of my time. I've come to greatly enjoy poking Butterbean. I'm sure you've read some of his other posts... this guy is like an awesome pinata of craziness. I'd really like more than anything to get him really pissed off, pissed off enough he REALLY lets out the insanity, because you know if he's this nuts on the surface there is some deep... deep seated problems lurking beneath. I think it will be hilarious to watch.
 
Should a fire fighter be allowed to arrive at the scene of a fire and refuse to help because the victim is gay?
 
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Those who discriminate against homosexuals today will be looked back at 60 years from now the way we look back at guys like Strom Thurmond, who 60 years ago ran for president on a segregationist platform, the worst form of discrimination. One word; pathetic.

That interesting, but isn't this issue about a doctor not wanting to provide fertility treatment to an unmarried woman?

Absolutely, I wasn't commenting on that (and I'm not sure I really believe that excuse anyway, frankly).

I do.

I can understand why a doctor would not want to help unmarried person get pregnant and something like would come out very early in the interview process.

An unmarried 18 year old girl walks in and demands to be artificially inseminated, it should not be against the law for that doctor to say "i am uncomfortable with doing this procedure for you, here is a list of other doctors who will provide what you are requesting."

If this was a life threating issue that required immediate medical attention, then the doctor SHOULD help said person. The same way we have laws requiring people to continue CPR in till a person is declared dead, or a medical professional arrives. But something that is completely optional and arguably unnecessary.

I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

It isn't.

I don't see what the problem in this case is. The doctor was kind enough to recommend another doctor practicing down the street for the patient to go to.

Um, thats what this whole thread is about. The courts have ruled that it IS against the law.
 
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
RocksteadyDotNet

"the goverment shouldn't be able to tell a private business who they have to serve."

So, would like to see bars with "no Indians allowed" signs?

Restaurants with " no dark-skinned people served"".

Welcome again to the 1850s.

In Western Australia, where I live, they recently passed a law saying you cant have single sex establishments that sell alcohol. There was a male only lawyers club that got sued buy a women, and she won.

Excuse me, but if I want to go to a private club and hang out with my buddies, and not be bothered by women, then its my GOD DAMN DEMOCRATIC RIGHT.

The goverment shouldn't be able to tell the proprietor of a private club that he must let women in.

I think the same think here applys. Kind of.

If i'm wrong then let me know.

What about the "GOD DAMN DEMOCRATIC RIGHT" of a woman not to be discriminated against because of something she has no control over? And that's only talking about some silly club, getting discriminated against for medical care could threaten your health or your life. You're not the only one who's supposed to benefit from living in a free society, you know.

Guess artificial insemination is now a life saving procedure!

Just how do you draw the line with medical care? Once you start down that road, it seems like it would be difficult to say when you can and when you can't be a bigot in your role as a doctor.

Hope the doctor leaves the dykes in CA and moves to another state where his services are more appreciated.

As if more proof was needed, this is way more about bigotry than "freedom". You people don't like gay people, everything else is just window dressing.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Rainsford
What about the "GOD DAMN DEMOCRATIC RIGHT" of a woman not to be discriminated against because of something she has no control over? And that's only talking about some silly club, getting discriminated against for medical care could threaten your health or your life. You're not the only one who's supposed to benefit from living in a free society, you know.

Guess artificial insemination is now a life saving procedure!

Just how do you draw the line with medical care? Once you start down that road, it seems like it would be difficult to say when you can and when you can't be a bigot in your role as a doctor.

Hope the doctor leaves the dykes in CA and moves to another state where his services are more appreciated.

As if more proof was needed, this is way more about bigotry than "freedom". You people don't like gay people, everything else is just window dressing.

1. The same way health insurance and hospitals already draw a line. There are procedures that are and aren't covered, even by Medicare. Hospitals have a clearly defined set of laws as well.

http://www.emtala.com/

2. As if more proof is needed, the fact that someone would spend years try to force a so called 'bigot' into treating them (and why you would want such a person to treat you, I don't know), rather than going to one of hundreds of physicians across the state is evidence that this is about the thought police and the gay agenda more than it is about medical care.
 
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Another warped decision from a warped court in a warped location. Forcing docs to make turkey baster babies for the identity disorderd. This would never holg up in highger court thats half normal. In the meantime its another step closer to waking people up to the insanity thats afoot. Go creepy Cali court : )

you listen to a lot of radio, right?

I'm guessing you haven't stepped more than 10 miles from an Iowa corn field your entire life.

 
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Those who discriminate against homosexuals today will be looked back at 60 years from now the way we look back at guys like Strom Thurmond, who 60 years ago ran for president on a segregationist platform, the worst form of discrimination. One word; pathetic.

That interesting, but isn't this issue about a doctor not wanting to provide fertility treatment to an unmarried woman?

Absolutely, I wasn't commenting on that (and I'm not sure I really believe that excuse anyway, frankly).

I do.

I can understand why a doctor would not want to help unmarried person get pregnant and something like would come out very early in the interview process.

An unmarried 18 year old girl walks in and demands to be artificially inseminated, it should not be against the law for that doctor to say "i am uncomfortable with doing this procedure for you, here is a list of other doctors who will provide what you are requesting."

If this was a life threating issue that required immediate medical attention, then the doctor SHOULD help said person. The same way we have laws requiring people to continue CPR in till a person is declared dead, or a medical professional arrives. But something that is completely optional and arguably unnecessary.

I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

Please. The woman was 36 and couldn't get legally married even if she wanted to. The doctor's own reasoning doesn't even apply to her, the doctor knew that, but still denied treatment. And further still (and this really nails it for me), his lawyer is quoted as saying "The Supreme Court's desire to promote the homosexual lifestyle at the risk of infringing upon the First Amendment right to free exercise of religion is what the public needs to learn about". His own lawyer freely admits he's against gay marriage, yet we're supposed to believe this Christian doctor wouldn't give a pass to, say, a Christian couple incapable of having children and incapable of affording a wedding in the near future? I'd bet several thousand dollars not a chance in hell that doctor wouldn't artificially inseminate under those special circumstances.
 
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Another warped decision from a warped court in a warped location. Forcing docs to make turkey baster babies for the identity disorderd. This would never holg up in highger court thats half normal. In the meantime its another step closer to waking people up to the insanity thats afoot. Go creepy Cali court : )

you listen to a lot of radio, right?

I'm guessing you haven't stepped more than 10 miles from an Iowa corn field your entire life.

That's an insult to the great state of Iowa. Try West Virginia. 😉
 
The thing that concerns me, if someone is that willful to refuse giving treatment to a patient (even if they are getting paid) because of the patients position (gay, etc), and they were forced to do so, what do you think that may lead to? Opps. There was a complication in surgery. Sorry! I think its actually safer for the doctor to refuse treatment and let the person go elsewhere. I think this was a bad move by the SC, and people aren't looking at a bigger picture.

Emergency room ERs on the other hand should not have someone in such a position, and if they discover someone, remove them.
 
Originally posted by: Fern
There is a certain theme here among some that our ability or right to work is a priviledge granted by the government. I can't agree with that; IMO the Constitution guarantees our right to pursuit whatever legal work we want.

I think there is a significant distiction between "care" (the word chosen by the OP) and services like elective proceedures. I doubt ANYONE would condone or suggest it appropriate to withhold necessary medical care on the basis of sex, race etc. But to force service providers to accept all clients? I have problems with that. If the person couldn't pay must the service provider still accept them? I think not. So, it's OK to discriminate for financial reasons but not some others? What makes those others so important that they are priviledged? Is it their *PC value*?

Let me ask, if a person seeking this service were to look up fertility clinics directory and saw one that espoused Christian (or some other) values, are they allowed to dismiss them from consideration on that basis? The answer, of course, is yes. So the person seeking the treatment may discriminate on some basis refused to the service provider themselves? How can that disparity be reconciled?

I think this issue of elective medical proceedures (and other services) is far less about "rights" and more about PC-ness.

And no, since it's elective I would have no problem if a male Muslim doctor refused elective proceedures on a woman because of religious beliefs. I have no problems with Arab-type resuatants refusing to serve me pork; the choice of a restaurant is "elective".

Fern

This issue being about an elective procedure is exactly right. Nobody died on an operating table because they were gay.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: shrumpage
I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

You know they artificially inseminated her the same way they artificially inseminate straight women, right? Do you find that 'rather sick on the face of it'?

Butterbean, I'm just wondering what you think about this. Did you know that right now... right this minute... hundreds of thousands of gay people around the world are having fabulous gay sex as I type this? That they're raising kids, they're having families, and above all else... the straight people are starting to love them for it. All your future holds is more and more fags having more and more i love you sex, raising more and more children, and having more and more people approve of it. It's only going to get worse from here for you. This thought makes me happy.


(or better I guess... a lot of people with your degree of homophobia are just repressed homosexuals. don't hate yourself!)


Actually the number of homosexuals is not as large the media (homosexual controlled) pre-occupation can make it seem. I wouldn't know about fabulous gay sex is anymore than I would know about fabulous coprophilia or fabulous klismaphilia. My future hold less homosexuals because they are already breeding the new diseases due to their often compulsive unhygenic lifestyle. Unfortunately they will cause innocent people to get sick too - but therre is nothing new about that. Clock is ticking...

"With every turn, the aggressive and persistent bug keeps getting worse.

Now, a new variant of that strain, resistant to six major kinds of antibiotics, is spreading among gay men in San Francisco, Boston, New York and Los Angeles...

If USA300 were to acquire vancomycin resistance from VRE, the result would be a virulent new form of staph, which would spread readily outside the medical setting and be nearly impossible to treat.

Perdreau-Remington believes there's an urgent need for new drugs to combat such a monster.

"This is the horror scenario," she said. "We have very little time left."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...08/01/15/MNUKUDB6D.DTL

 
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: shrumpage
I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

Do you ever contribute anything meaningful to any thread? 😕

All the time - but it takes a person with sense to recognise one.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

You know they artificially inseminated her the same way they artificially inseminate straight women, right? Do you find that 'rather sick on the face of it'?

Butterbean, I'm just wondering what you think about this. Did you know that right now... right this minute... hundreds of thousands of gay people around the world are having fabulous gay sex as I type this? That they're raising kids, they're having families, and above all else... the straight people are starting to love them for it. All your future holds is more and more fags having more and more i love you sex, raising more and more children, and having more and more people approve of it. It's only going to get worse from here for you. This thought makes me happy.

(or better I guess... a lot of people with your degree of homophobia are just repressed homosexuals. don't hate yourself!)

eskimospy - why waste your time on a person who is quite clearly trolling.....

It's not a waste of my time. I've come to greatly enjoy poking Butterbean. I'm sure you've read some of his other posts... this guy is like an awesome pinata of craziness. I'd really like more than anything to get him really pissed off, pissed off enough he REALLY lets out the insanity, because you know if he's this nuts on the surface there is some deep... deep seated problems lurking beneath. I think it will be hilarious to watch.

Actually I dont get mad at all. When I am right and others with less insight and sense dont go along there is no grief for me - I just realize I am fortunate and count my blessings. Its some of you other guys that get pissed off at me - hence I own you and get in your heads.
 
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

You know they artificially inseminated her the same way they artificially inseminate straight women, right? Do you find that 'rather sick on the face of it'?

Butterbean, I'm just wondering what you think about this. Did you know that right now... right this minute... hundreds of thousands of gay people around the world are having fabulous gay sex as I type this? That they're raising kids, they're having families, and above all else... the straight people are starting to love them for it. All your future holds is more and more fags having more and more i love you sex, raising more and more children, and having more and more people approve of it. It's only going to get worse from here for you. This thought makes me happy.

(or better I guess... a lot of people with your degree of homophobia are just repressed homosexuals. don't hate yourself!)

eskimospy - why waste your time on a person who is quite clearly trolling.....

It's not a waste of my time. I've come to greatly enjoy poking Butterbean. I'm sure you've read some of his other posts... this guy is like an awesome pinata of craziness. I'd really like more than anything to get him really pissed off, pissed off enough he REALLY lets out the insanity, because you know if he's this nuts on the surface there is some deep... deep seated problems lurking beneath. I think it will be hilarious to watch.

Actually I dont get mad at all. When I am right and others with less insight and sense dont go along there is no grief for me - I just realize I am fortunate and count my blessings. Its some of you other guys that get pissed off at me - hence I own you and get in your heads.

Dude...

You're fucking insane. Seriously.
 
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Those who discriminate against homosexuals today will be looked back at 60 years from now the way we look back at guys like Strom Thurmond, who 60 years ago ran for president on a segregationist platform, the worst form of discrimination. One word; pathetic.

That interesting, but isn't this issue about a doctor not wanting to provide fertility treatment to an unmarried woman?

Absolutely, I wasn't commenting on that (and I'm not sure I really believe that excuse anyway, frankly).

I do.

I can understand why a doctor would not want to help unmarried person get pregnant and something like would come out very early in the interview process.

An unmarried 18 year old girl walks in and demands to be artificially inseminated, it should not be against the law for that doctor to say "i am uncomfortable with doing this procedure for you, here is a list of other doctors who will provide what you are requesting."

If this was a life threating issue that required immediate medical attention, then the doctor SHOULD help said person. The same way we have laws requiring people to continue CPR in till a person is declared dead, or a medical professional arrives. But something that is completely optional and arguably unnecessary.

I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

Please. The woman was 36 and couldn't get legally married even if she wanted to. The doctor's own reasoning doesn't even apply to her, the doctor knew that, but still denied treatment. And further still (and this really nails it for me), his lawyer is quoted as saying "The Supreme Court's desire to promote the homosexual lifestyle at the risk of infringing upon the First Amendment right to free exercise of religion is what the public needs to learn about". His own lawyer freely admits he's against gay marriage, yet we're supposed to believe this Christian doctor wouldn't give a pass to, say, a Christian couple incapable of having children and incapable of affording a wedding in the near future? I'd bet several thousand dollars not a chance in hell that doctor wouldn't artificially inseminate under those special circumstances.

I would find it hard to believe a couple claiming to be Christian, yet advertise the fact the are not only engaged in premarital sex, but are attempting to have a child before they are married.
 
Originally posted by: brandonb
The thing that concerns me, if someone is that willful to refuse giving treatment to a patient (even if they are getting paid) because of the patients position (gay, etc), and they were forced to do so, what do you think that may lead to? Opps. There was a complication in surgery. Sorry! I think its actually safer for the doctor to refuse treatment and let the person go elsewhere. I think this was a bad move by the SC, and people aren't looking at a bigger picture.

Emergency room ERs on the other hand should not have someone in such a position, and if they discover someone, remove them.

That actually makes a lot of sense, since AFAIK AI isn't a 100% guaranteed thing. It's more like, pay us thousands of dollars and we'll try to get you pregnant once. The doctor could have just as easily purposely botched the procedure, taken the woman's money, and sent her away in tears.
 
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: shrumpage
I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

You know they artificially inseminated her the same way they artificially inseminate straight women, right? Do you find that 'rather sick on the face of it'?

Butterbean, I'm just wondering what you think about this. Did you know that right now... right this minute... hundreds of thousands of gay people around the world are having fabulous gay sex as I type this? That they're raising kids, they're having families, and above all else... the straight people are starting to love them for it. All your future holds is more and more fags having more and more i love you sex, raising more and more children, and having more and more people approve of it. It's only going to get worse from here for you. This thought makes me happy.


(or better I guess... a lot of people with your degree of homophobia are just repressed homosexuals. don't hate yourself!)


Actually the number of homosexuals is not as large the media (homosexual controlled) pre-occupation can make it seem. I wouldn't know about fabulous gay sex is anymore than I would know about fabulous coprophilia or fabulous klismaphilia. My future hold less homosexuals because they are already breeding the new diseases due to their often compulsive unhygenic lifestyle. Unfortunately they will cause innocent people to get sick too - but therre is nothing new about that. Clock is ticking...

"With every turn, the aggressive and persistent bug keeps getting worse.

Now, a new variant of that strain, resistant to six major kinds of antibiotics, is spreading among gay men in San Francisco, Boston, New York and Los Angeles...

If USA300 were to acquire vancomycin resistance from VRE, the result would be a virulent new form of staph, which would spread readily outside the medical setting and be nearly impossible to treat.

Perdreau-Remington believes there's an urgent need for new drugs to combat such a monster.

"This is the horror scenario," she said. "We have very little time left."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...08/01/15/MNUKUDB6D.DTL

See UberNewman? Tell me this wasn't worth my time. I find Butterbean hilarious.

Butterbean, if you ever start a blog let me know; I will read it every day. Your insanity is too good to miss. If you're not too busy, could you maybe make another thread or two on here and tell us your opinions on Iraq, separation of church and state, if the holocaust happened, why black people are not more successful in America, and maybe your views on illegal immigration? I would very much like to read them.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: shrumpage
I see this case making its way to the USSC over the next decade.

Indeed, only a creepy court in Cali could force people to inseminate lesbians with a turkey baster. Rather sick on the face of it.

You know they artificially inseminated her the same way they artificially inseminate straight women, right? Do you find that 'rather sick on the face of it'?

Butterbean, I'm just wondering what you think about this. Did you know that right now... right this minute... hundreds of thousands of gay people around the world are having fabulous gay sex as I type this? That they're raising kids, they're having families, and above all else... the straight people are starting to love them for it. All your future holds is more and more fags having more and more i love you sex, raising more and more children, and having more and more people approve of it. It's only going to get worse from here for you. This thought makes me happy.


(or better I guess... a lot of people with your degree of homophobia are just repressed homosexuals. don't hate yourself!)


Actually the number of homosexuals is not as large the media (homosexual controlled) pre-occupation can make it seem. I wouldn't know about fabulous gay sex is anymore than I would know about fabulous coprophilia or fabulous klismaphilia. My future hold less homosexuals because they are already breeding the new diseases due to their often compulsive unhygenic lifestyle. Unfortunately they will cause innocent people to get sick too - but therre is nothing new about that. Clock is ticking...

"With every turn, the aggressive and persistent bug keeps getting worse.

Now, a new variant of that strain, resistant to six major kinds of antibiotics, is spreading among gay men in San Francisco, Boston, New York and Los Angeles...

If USA300 were to acquire vancomycin resistance from VRE, the result would be a virulent new form of staph, which would spread readily outside the medical setting and be nearly impossible to treat.

Perdreau-Remington believes there's an urgent need for new drugs to combat such a monster.

"This is the horror scenario," she said. "We have very little time left."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...08/01/15/MNUKUDB6D.DTL

See UberNewman? Tell me this wasn't worth my time. I find Butterbean hilarious.

Butterbean, if you ever start a blog let me know; I will read it every day. Your insanity is too good to miss. If you're not too busy, could you maybe make another thread or two on here and tell us your opinions on Iraq, separation of church and state, if the holocaust happened, why black people are not more successful in America, and maybe your views on illegal immigration? I would very much like to read them.

He's almost like the anti-Moonbeam. 🙂
 
To get back on topic for a moment:

"Doctors Cannot Withold Care Based on Religious Belief"

Is a pretty smart decision, b/c if we continue the religious refusal line of
reasoning, pretty soon a cashier can refuse to sell you that porno mag
b/c it's against their religion, same thing with selling you rubbers, a
Harry Potter book (witchcraft!), etc etc.
 
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: eskimospy
See UberNewman? Tell me this wasn't worth my time. I find Butterbean hilarious.

Butterbean, if you ever start a blog let me know; I will read it every day. Your insanity is too good to miss. If you're not too busy, could you maybe make another thread or two on here and tell us your opinions on Iraq, separation of church and state, if the holocaust happened, why black people are not more successful in America, and maybe your views on illegal immigration? I would very much like to read them.

He's almost like the anti-Moonbeam. 🙂

Now that's not fair at all to Moonbeam. And it ain't like I agree with Moonbeam all the time.

ZV
 
Originally posted by: db
To get back on topic for a moment:

"Doctors Cannot Withold Care Based on Religious Belief"

Is a pretty smart decision, b/c if we continue the religious refusal line of
reasoning, pretty soon a cashier can refuse to sell you that porno mag
b/c it's against their religion, same thing with selling you rubbers, a
Harry Potter book (witchcraft!), etc etc.

The doctor himself should have worn a burka and then operated... then it would have been a perfect match. Would have been fun to see who won!!!
 
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Actually the number of homosexuals is not as large the media (homosexual controlled) pre-occupation can make it seem. I wouldn't know about fabulous gay sex is anymore than I would know about fabulous coprophilia or fabulous klismaphilia. My future hold less homosexuals because they are already breeding the new diseases due to their often compulsive unhygenic lifestyle. Unfortunately they will cause innocent people to get sick too - but therre is nothing new about that. Clock is ticking...

"With every turn, the aggressive and persistent bug keeps getting worse.

Now, a new variant of that strain, resistant to six major kinds of antibiotics, is spreading among gay men in San Francisco, Boston, New York and Los Angeles...

If USA300 were to acquire vancomycin resistance from VRE, the result would be a virulent new form of staph, which would spread readily outside the medical setting and be nearly impossible to treat.

Perdreau-Remington believes there's an urgent need for new drugs to combat such a monster.

"This is the horror scenario," she said. "We have very little time left."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...08/01/15/MNUKUDB6D.DTL

Wow. WTF happened in your life to cause such hate? Seriously... 😕

 
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