Do you think you have to be depressed to kill yourself?

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: amicold

Originally posted by: irishScott


Or you can suck it in, take it like a man and improve yourself. Suicide is the coward's way out.

Maybe if you're playing Call of Duty 4, but in reality if you are unproductive, continued failing in whatever aspect of life for a decent amount of time then I see no harm in offing yourself. I don't think you necessarily have to be depressed to do so you just reach a point where you're too unmotivated to dig yourself out with any effort.

Read my long post (3rd from the bottom of the 1st page).

 

[SlitheryDee]

Rationally deciding that there is no point in living is pessimistic in the very least. The chance, however slight, of lucking into some happiness eventually would be enough to keep me going forever. Also, just because you logically work out the reasons you are unlikely to have anything to live for ever again, doesn't change the fact that you are not happy. Lack of any happiness whatsoever = depression IMO.

 

[daishi5]

If a person wants to end their life, they must be depressed. But it is circular logic, from WebMD:

What are symptoms of depression?
According to the National Institute of Mental Health, symptoms of depression may include the following:

difficulty concentrating, remembering details, and making decisions
fatigue and decreased energy
feelings of guilt, worthlessness, and/or helplessness
feelings of hopelessness and/or pessimism
insomnia, early-morning wakefulness, or excessive sleeping
irritability, restlessness
loss of interest in activities or hobbies once pleasurable, including sex
overeating or appetite loss
persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems that do not ease even with treatment
persistent sad, anxious, or "empty" feelings
thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts

Take note, the symptoms of depression, feelings of worthlessness, and thoughts of suicide. Therefore if you want to commit suicide you must be depressed.

I personally cannot think of a single reason why a person should kill themself under normal circumstances, but I do find it troubling that we as a society assume that any other person who reaches that point must not be able to think clearly, or must have a psychological problem. It may just be me, but I really find it hard to say that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that every other person that can think and reason would always choose to live no matter what they have or will have to endure, and that if they make any other choice they must not be capable of fully functional thought.

So yes, a person who wants to commit suicide is depressed, but that is almost tautological anymore.

 

[LilPima]

Maybe just lazy?

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: DomS
Let's say you weren't terminally ill, and didn't have some excruciating illness, but you just didn't like how your life was going and decided to kill yourself. Does that mean you're depressed. I could see someone saying

'well, I have been applying for work for months, and haven't gotten any responses. I'm out of money and will be homeless soon. I don't have a large family, nor am I close to anyone in my family. A couple people would miss me, but they'd eventually recover. I have no family or friends to move in with, and I would rather die than live on the streets.'


This person then ends their life. Were they depressed? I personally say no, they had a limit as to how far they would let their life slide, they reached it, and rationally chose to end their life, not being interested in continuing it.


What says ATOT?

gee. your homeless , no $$$. prob begging for food too. and your not depressed???

you'll be amazed at what the human mind can adapt to.
ie: being raped, gang raped <again>, violence (ie: women in africa)

most people cannot commit suicide w/o being mentally ill. self preservation instinct and all that.

you'll cope w/the new conditions if your mind is fit

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: M0oG0oGaiPan
I think some people want to die with dignity. I remember reading about a woman that knew she was going to die by shitting from her mouth or something and she didn't want it to come to that.

Now I'm depressed.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: daishi5
If a person wants to end their life, they must be depressed. But it is circular logic, from WebMD:

What are symptoms of depression?
According to the National Institute of Mental Health, symptoms of depression may include the following:

difficulty concentrating, remembering details, and making decisions
fatigue and decreased energy
feelings of guilt, worthlessness, and/or helplessness
feelings of hopelessness and/or pessimism
insomnia, early-morning wakefulness, or excessive sleeping
irritability, restlessness
loss of interest in activities or hobbies once pleasurable, including sex
overeating or appetite loss
persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems that do not ease even with treatment
persistent sad, anxious, or "empty" feelings
thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts

Take note, the symptoms of depression, feelings of worthlessness, and thoughts of suicide. Therefore if you want to commit suicide you must be depressed.

I personally cannot think of a single reason why a person should kill themself under normal circumstances, but I do find it troubling that we as a society assume that any other person who reaches that point must not be able to think clearly, or must have a psychological problem.

A consistent history of bad events does tend to hinder your ability to think clearly.

Major depressive episodes occur when memories of those bad events are inescapable by your daily activities and foster a vicious cycle. That means a very depressing outlook on life as well, and depressed thoughts staining/infecting everything near you like a disease.

To divert this cycle of bad thoughts, people with an ounce of hope look to counseling (if you're lucky) or drugs (maybe real antidepressants, or alcohol/dip if they're desperate), and those without any hope consider suicide.

It may just be me, but I really find it hard to say that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that every other person that can think and reason would always choose to live no matter what they have or will have to endure, and that if they make any other choice they must not be capable of fully functional thought.

Depends if the good outweighs the bad, I guess.

A living being wanting to kill himself pretty much ensures that he has some type of problem. That's like natural de-selection. Think about it on a high level: the goal of all beings is to survive. Anything he did to himself intentionally that was inconducive to his survival is really nonsensical. Or, he just really sucks at surviving I guess? Why would somebody who was happy with themselves want to kill themselves?

None of us are clairvoyants, so it's hard to choose ahead of time whether or not we would like to live depending on what may follow in our lives. That's like playing a game of chess when you already know the results. Anticipating the next thing is a big part of the "life" experience and what makes it exciting.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: ed21x
in Asian culture, if you are not achieving to your potential or living up to the standards of society, you are considered a waste of oxygen and should end yourself for the betterment of humanity. It explains the high suicide rate for Japanese businessmen who've failed to provide for their family after getting laid off, Taiwanese students commiting suicide after their end-of-highschool exam are publicly posted, and a ton of other things. Better to kill yourself than be a burden on society. Live to be honorable, and productive.

EXACTLY. That's what I'm saying. People can talk about sucking it up, etc. But if you've BEEN trying, and you're still floundering/failing at life, why not then choose to end your life, given the circumstances that I already laid out in the OP

Not to mention that the only thing asian parents judge how good their kid is comes from academic performance.

It's quite obvious why asians(japanese excluded) fail at being innovative when you consider how absurdly obsessed they are with practicality and feeling secure.

<- asian

 

[anxi80]

Originally posted by: dabuddha
Depends on how you look at it. I suppose douche bag suicide bombers wouldn't agree with that statement. They're positively and optimistically looking forward to their 72 virgins.

now everytime i hear about the 72 virgins, i cant help but to think of this.

 

[I4AT]

You can be stupid too, plenty of people kill themselves by accident.

 

[lokiju]

In general I'd say you'd have to be some form of depressed to do it. I don't think you have to be all down and emo to actually be depressed. The only situation I can think of where it wouldn't have to be depression would be a situation where doing the act would be for the greater good such as saving other lives. Like this weeks terminator where the husband went outside to kill himself in order to stop the terminator from coming after him and his family. Or in some twisted Saw like situation where some killer gives the choice of offing yourself or he'll kill a loved one. Even like the stories from WWII where someone would jump on a grenade in order to save is buddies.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: ed21x
in Asian culture, if you are not achieving to your potential or living up to the standards of society, you are considered a waste of oxygen and should end yourself for the betterment of humanity. It explains the high suicide rate for Japanese businessmen who've failed to provide for their family after getting laid off, Taiwanese students commiting suicide after their end-of-highschool exam are publicly posted, and a ton of other things. Better to kill yourself than be a burden on society. Live to be honorable, and productive.

EXACTLY. That's what I'm saying. People can talk about sucking it up, etc. But if you've BEEN trying, and you're still floundering/failing at life, why not then choose to end your life, given the circumstances that I already laid out in the OP

Not to mention that the only thing asian parents judge how good their kid is comes from academic performance.

It's quite obvious why asians(japanese excluded) fail at being innovative when you consider how absurdly obsessed they are with practicality and feeling secure.

<- asian

go to any developed asian society and you will see both the most advanced forms of innovation and the most conservative. I think a better way to assess asian culture is their obsession with money being the yardstick for success instead of happiness.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Improving/changing oneself is probably the hardest thing anyone ever does. Suicide is by far the easier option. Committing suicide because you're failing at life isn't dying with dignity or "what honor you have left". It's simply a refusal to accept responsibility for your failure. There isn't a person on this planet who is incapable of self-improvement. The "honorable" option is to use that ability and attempt to atone for whatever damage you think you've caused.

while I love your optimistic asessment and faith in the potential of the human spirit. but unfortunately, some people (a ton) lose hope when they've failed so many times that it is hard to believe that there is always a way out (which might not be).

man, that was so emo. I actually agree with you, but thats because I'm stubbornly optimistic.

 

[Howard]

Accidents

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: DomS
Were they depressed? I personally say no, they had a limit as to how far they would let their life slide, they reached it, and rationally chose to end their life, not being interested in continuing it.

Depression per se has nothing to do with your question. How does it matter whether or not the person was depressed in this context? It only matters as an alternative to the claim of rationality in suicide. However, rationality in a suicide is highly doubtful, as it is an act of profound violence to the self and by extention the generating environment and containing society.

Suicide in this context is also built on hope -- a hope that the suffering will be less, that what follows will be nothing at all, or at least not worse than the present. But this is a highly dubious hope. If death was all that, and life so worthless and unimportant to be easily thrown away on discomfort and supposedly rational thought, then why would there be life at all?

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: anxi80

Originally posted by: dabuddha
Depends on how you look at it. I suppose douche bag suicide bombers wouldn't agree with that statement. They're positively and optimistically looking forward to their 72 virgins.

now everytime i hear about the 72 virgins, i cant help but to think of this.

lol

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: ed21x
in Asian culture, if you are not achieving to your potential or living up to the standards of society, you are considered a waste of oxygen and should end yourself for the betterment of humanity. It explains the high suicide rate for Japanese businessmen who've failed to provide for their family after getting laid off, Taiwanese students commiting suicide after their end-of-highschool exam are publicly posted, and a ton of other things. Better to kill yourself than be a burden on society. Live to be honorable, and productive.

Do you realize how large Asia is? You can't just sum up such a wide variety of societies, cultures, and values with "Asian culture".

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: DomS
Let's say you weren't terminally ill, and didn't have some excruciating illness, but you just didn't like how your life was going and decided to kill yourself. Does that mean you're depressed. I could see someone saying

'well, I have been applying for work for months, and haven't gotten any responses. I'm out of money and will be homeless soon. I don't have a large family, nor am I close to anyone in my family. A couple people would miss me, but they'd eventually recover. I have no family or friends to move in with, and I would rather die than live on the streets.'


This person then ends their life. Were they depressed? I personally say no, they had a limit as to how far they would let their life slide, they reached it, and rationally chose to end their life, not being interested in continuing it.


What says ATOT?

No, I haven't read the whole thread, this post was enough.

If you do anything stupid I will be eternally pissed at you. :|

And yes, anyone who takes their own life is suffering from mental illness.