Do you think we'lll get better performacne than a GTX 470 for ~$210 anytime soon/

[ModestGamer]

What makes you say that?

its just the history of the marketing leadership at nvidia. they are also in a realtively new position of lossing market share for over a year, they likely have surplus inventory and quickly they feew venues they needed for cashflow are vlosing up. I belive this was discussed in detail several months ago with fusion and sb comming.

 

[Hauk]

I doubt it's cashflow. There are other, more logical reasons as mentioned. Regardless, it's a hell of a card for the money.

It's cooler remains one of my favorites. What a great design, a two-piece cooling solution where the GPU heatsink is easily removed for TIM replacement, all without disturbing the memory & VRM thermal pads. I hope nV continues to use this as their reference design.

 

[happy medium]

I have not heard a single thing about the gtx570. even the drivers that listed the gtx580 and some other new cards in them made no mention of it. so do you have any proof or info showing the gtx570 being released at the same time as the gtx580?

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20722-geforce-560-also-candidate-for-2010

Sounds like they are gonna sell out of gtx470's ,and soon after gtx460's as well, to make room for the gtx570 and 560. Gtx 560 being a befed up gf104 core? hmmm

These gtx470 price drops might be an indication of that.

Edit: and a dual gtx5xx card also?
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20724-nvidias-dual-5x0-card-comes-in-2010

 

[toyota]

I doubt it's cashflow. There are other, more logical reasons as mentioned. Regardless, it's a hell of a card for the money.

It's cooler remains one of my favorites. What a great design, a two-piece cooling solution where the GPU heatsink is easily removed for TIM replacement, all without disturbing the memory & VRM thermal pads. I hope nV continues to use this as their reference design.

yes becuase it was so quiet and did a fine job of cooling the card to a chilly 90C +. lol

 

[Arkadrel]

I guess we ll know in 3 days time if anyone is good at looking at finacial reports ect.
I dont think nvidia is cashflow pinched.

"and a dual gtx5xx card also?"

its from Fud... and a dual 480 card? holy cows... I ll believe it when I see it.
A single 480 can hit 320watts used under load... 2 of them.. on one card? I dont see that happending.

 

[ModestGamer]

I guess we ll know in 3 days time if anyone is good at looking at finacial reports ect.
I dont think nvidia is cashflow pinched.

"and a dual gtx5xx card also?"

its from Fud... and a dual 480 card? holy cows... I ll believe it when I see it.
A single 480 can hit 320watts used under load... 2 of them.. on one card? I dont see that happending.

your confusing cash reserves with cashflow.

revserves are your savings account, cashflow is your checking account.

their cashflow is severly pinched and they have been laying off engineers quietly. I expect a 30% worforce reduction in the next quartely announcments and I would also bet they have burned at least 50% of their reserves to.

 

[Hauk]

yes becuase it was so quiet and did a fine job of cooling the card to a chilly 90C +. lol

"continue to use" with cooler performing gpus of course. Don't blame the cooling solution..

 

[happy medium]

your confusing cash reserves with cashflow.

revserves are your savings account, cashflow is your checking account.

their cashflow is severly pinched and they have been laying off engineers quietly. I expect a 30% worforce reduction in the next quartely announcments and I would also bet they have burned at least 50% of their reserves to.

WHat, losing money? Overall? or just there gaming cards?
I dont think there losing money.

30% workforce reductions? link.? depression mabe?
50% of there reserves. link?

 

[StormSide]

From what I hear GL getting that $30 Zotac rebate.

 

[ModestGamer]

WHat, losing money? Overall? or just there gaming cards?
I dont think there losing money.

30% workforce reductions? link.? depression mabe?
50% of there reserves. link?

They lost market share, AMd and nvidia cut them out of chipset and most embeeded applications.

you just have to look at what is happening in the industry as a whole to see the problem.

I doubt they are lossing money per say, but they don;t have the cash flow to keep the current level of employess regardless of how profitable each part is.

its like this

it cost say $5 to make a GPU
they sell it for $50 making a tidy profit

they have a overhead of 50,000 a month and only sell 100 gpus

se the problem.

even though the per part profit is high the needed sales to meet the overhead is lowering.

they can either reduce overhead "laying off staff and closing facilitys" or they can lower prices to stimulate sales.

If I was in charge I would be doing a bit of both, the fact that prices continues to decline on a exspensive product points to the seriousness of the situation.

nvidia is cash crunched and when you cashflow falls below your overhead you start burning reserves.

hte professional card space while very very profitable doesn;t sell enough units to make up for lost cash flow on lower profit higher volume parts.

 

[Arkadrel]

yes becuase it was so quiet and did a fine job of cooling the card to a chilly 90C +. lol

SOLUTION:
Thermalright Spitfire and VRM Heatsinks

One of these and watch those 90c+ (peak) go down to like ~58c (peak).

 

[Arkadrel]

@ModestGamer,

You should wait 3 days before makeing claims like that though... In 3 days you ll be able to look at what their last quarter was like. Speculation is one thing, but unless you see it, thats all it ll ever be.

 

[OCGuy]

they are cash pinched, thats why they are paper launching. I doubt we shall see new nvidia cards before next year.

Keeping this one.

Also, paper launching would counter-productive. People would hold off buying the current cards to wait for the new ones that are supposedly launching

 

[OCGuy]

hte professional card space while very very profitable doesn;t sell enough units to make up for lost cash flow on lower profit higher volume parts.

Huh? You really need to see where nV makes most of it's profit.

 

[Teizo]

They lost market share

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that they are pinched for cash.

http://www.techspot.com/news/40967-amd-nvidia-nearly-even-in-overall-gpu-shipments.html

Nvidia still has a 59 to 41 market advantage in the discrete market, though overall things are pretty much tied.

 

[OCGuy]

^ Wow, I didnt even realize how much of the discreet market nV still has.

 

[RussianSensation]

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that they are pinched for cash.

http://www.techspot.com/news/40967-amd-nvidia-nearly-even-in-overall-gpu-shipments.html

Nvidia still has a 59 to 41 market advantage in the discrete market, though overall things are pretty much tied.

That's discrete *desktop* market share. Overall discrete market share is 50% AMD/50% NV when mobile segment is included. Still, considering we are discussing desktop cards, it's interesting to read claims that NV is getting pummeled on the desktop. All this time, AMD has really been pulling away in the mobile sector (or NV losing by default by not delivering anything in the discrete mobile space for almost 12 months - whichever way you want to look at it).

^ Wow, I didnt even realize how much of the discreet market nV still has.

With claims of NV going bankrupt for the last 9 months / or having to withdraw from GPU graphics eventually, don't feel bad The hard reality for enthusiasts is that > $300 graphics cards is a small volume market for both firms (although obviously higher in profit margins). And well the $500+ market of GTX480/580/HD6970/5970 cards is even smaller, probably < 3%. I bet $100 GTS450 and $140 GTX460 768mb cards are selling well.

 

[vshin]

The 480/470 were dogs for nVidia from a profit standpoint. They can't wait to drop these like a brick and move on to the 5xx series.

 

[edplayer]

keep an eye out in hotdeals/slickdeals and you will see them on sale a lot though I don't think the 470 will "drop like a brick"

 

[happy medium]

keep an eye out in hotdeals/slickdeals and you will see them on sale a lot though I don't think the 470 will "drop like a brick"

They have dropped 50 to 80 dollars in the past 2 months

 

[edplayer]

now that I read it again, he is talking about Nvidia wanting to drop them like a brick. Not him waiting for them to (which I thought he said)

 

[Arkadrel]

The 480/470 were dogs for nVidia from a profit standpoint. They can't wait to drop these like a brick and move on to the 5xx series.

newegg prices (quick search for low price)

480 selling at ~499$ : 529mm^2
470 selling at ~259$ : 529mm^2
460 selling at ~170$ : 368mm^2

now if we look at "$ sales price" / mm^2 :

480: 499$/529mm^2 = 0,94 $/mm^2
470: 259$/529mm^2 = 0,48 $/mm^2
460: 171$/368mm^2 = 0,46 $/mm^2

As you can see, Nvidia probably currently have a easier time, makeing profits on their 470 and 480 than they do with their 460. Why would you want to drop the best profit makeing cards like a brick?


I know the 5xx hopefully have more performance/mm^2 so nvidia can start makeing profits again but still.... Even the 460 could use a refresh when compaired to the 6870.

6870: 239$ / 255mm^2 = 0,93 $/mm^2

Now each time nvidia sells a 480 for 499$ chances are good its makeing profit on that cards sales because of its price / die size. The 5xx Series will lower the prices the 480 can be sold for.... so will the 69xx cards.
I dont think nvidia are perticularly thrilled with the idea of haveing to sell the 470/480 for less.

 

[RussianSensation]

now if we look at "$ sales price" / mm^2 :

480: 499$/529mm^2 = 0,94 $/mm^2
470: 259$/529mm^2 = 0,48 $/mm^2
460: 171$/332mm^2 = 0,52 $/mm^2

The 470 is the real dog show. The die size of 460 is 332mm2 not 368mm2. Great analysis though

 

[Gloomy]

AMD is making off like thieves. That's terrible. Nvidia gives you a lot more silicon for your money.

6870: 239$ / 255mm^2 = 0,93 $/mm^2.

D:

 

[RussianSensation]

Nvidia gives you a lot more silicon for your money.

Ya, seriously. Makes my buying decision a lot easier since I know what I'll do with a 529mm2 GPU eventually.