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Do you think we'll ever see a 802.11n standard?

I'm starting to think not. Right now each company is so entrenched into their own version of the pre-standard stuff that I almost don't see it getting passed. But the word on the street is 1st half of 2010. Every year that date gets pushed back another year.

I blame all the people who bought non-standard stuff. That's what forced us into this position.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm starting to think not. Right now each company is so entrenched into their own version of the pre-standard stuff that I almost don't see it getting passed. But the word on the street is 1st half of 2010. Every year that date gets pushed back another year.

I blame all the people who bought non-standard stuff. That's what forced us into this position.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

There is a strong possibility that a standard would be agreed upon only when the Draft usage would turn really bad and it would be obvious to the manufacturers that their business is down due to lack of standard.

With every Draft sold the standard Drifts away.

What is even more bothersome is that manufacturers of good 802.11g starting to phase out the 802.11g lines and before the end of the year we would be in real dire situation.

I.e. No good Wireless, only kitchen sink of expensive Drafts.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm starting to think not. Right now each company is so entrenched into their own version of the pre-standard stuff that I almost don't see it getting passed. But the word on the street is 1st half of 2010. Every year that date gets pushed back another year.

I blame all the people who bought non-standard stuff. That's what forced us into this position.
Click to expand...

I think the blame is misguided though. I would venture a guess that 90-95% of consumers have no idea that this stuff is non-standard, they are just buying the fastest currently available in stores.

I place the blame on the companies for not just sitting down and coming to an agreement long ago.
 
Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm starting to think not. Right now each company is so entrenched into their own version of the pre-standard stuff that I almost don't see it getting passed. But the word on the street is 1st half of 2010. Every year that date gets pushed back another year.

I blame all the people who bought non-standard stuff. That's what forced us into this position.
Click to expand...

I think the blame is misguided though. I would venture a guess that 90-95% of consumers have no idea that this stuff is non-standard, they are just buying the fastest currently available in stores.

I place the blame on the companies for not just sitting down and coming to an agreement long ago.
Click to expand...

You are right.

However blame is usually Not a solution to a problem.

The solution to the problem is convincing your fellow men Not to buy the junk so that the

Vendors would have to change their stand.

The 3 Detroit?s did not do too much either until the consumers helped to drive them to the edge of bankruptcy.
 
Originally posted by: aphex


I think the blame is misguided though. I would venture a guess that 90-95% of consumers have no idea that this stuff is non-standard, they are just buying the fastest currently available in stores.

I place the blame on the companies for not just sitting down and coming to an agreement long ago.
Click to expand...

True. But that wouldn't be in the company's best interest.
 
It's like egg or chicken question, there will never be an answer or solution. It's just a "Need for Speed".

I believe I saw somewhere the 802.11n can be pushed up to 600Mbps. Before long you will see it on the market.
 
Originally posted by: mxnerd
It's like egg or chicken question, there will never be an answer or solution. It's just a "Need for Speed".

I believe I saw somewhere the 802.11n can be pushed up to 600Mbps. Before long you will see it on the market.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. The reason why all network devices can communicate with each other is because of standards. Without these standards you have problems and flat out doesn't work together. Right now there is no such thing as 802.11n, it doesn't exist. Manufacturers will continue to push their proprietary solutions, people mistakenly purchase them and all that does is delay any real progress to actually getting the standard passed.

I've been doing networking quite a long time and I can't recall any standard that took this long to get ratified. Why? Because vendors have so much product out that they fight tooth and nail to make sure their implementation is in the standard. Then they all argue and it gets delayed.
 
Yes I'm sure that is the reason it's being pushed out, but honestly your never going to get people to NOT buy the stuff. It's what they see in the stores, in advertising, etc. And like Jack said, a lot of companies I see have stopped developing 802.11g and are only doing development on their version of Pre-N. Well, if your a consumer and your equipment dies, what are you expected to do? Companies need to get their heads on straight and quit pushing this junk out.
 
How about Intel & Apple? They put 802.11 draft n on every notebook they sell. So is it the Intel & Apple to blame? Or the average customers? When customers saw they have a draft n laptop, they want a draft n router.

The truth is every vendor wants to have the upper hand and no one wants to back off.
 
Intel and Apple are in the hand of the Wireless Chipset manufacturers just like we are.
 
I'm surprised we haven't seen a bare bones standard with small groups forming add-on standards or extensions. At this point, that would seem like the most logical way to get the standard out. Creating extensions would be nice because you force the device to accept a standard, but you're allowed to create extra value for the user.

Personally, the IEEE should ban the use of "802.11n" in marketing and on products until a standard is finalized. Like others have said, it's not a standard until you finalize it. IEEE should have stepped in and said you're not using our name until it's finalized. Unfortunately, the top people in IEEE probably have their hands in those company pockets otherwise they would have stood up for the integrity of the institution.
 
Well it's a farging mess, that's what it is. It may be time to just scrap it and work on another standard. I just really don't see this getting passed anytime soon as entrenched as manufacturers are.
 
Originally posted by: JackMDS
Intel and Apple are in the hand of the Wireless Chipset manufacturers just like we are.
Click to expand...

I suppose Intel has it's own wireless chipset. Doesn't it?
 
AFAIK Intel Draft N are what they call 802.11AGN mini-pc wireless cards, and they use 3rd party chipset.
 
Well, it's easy to try and blame the consumers for buying the stuff but with G being put out several years ago and the Pre-N stuff being so heavily marketed, can you really blame them? G is almost considered old technology and yet N is no where being ready to be a standard. The whole problem comes down to companies wanting as much money out of Pre-N as they can get and yes, I do think it's so messed up now it may never really be standardized, might as well just get working on the next standard and scrap 802.11N. It's a mess no matter which way you look at it and there's really no easy resolution either.
 
Originally posted by: kevnich2the Pre-N stuff being so heavily marketed, can you really blame them?
Click to expand...

Yes I can, and I do. 😉

The membership here (and on other top technology Web Forums) is consists of people that consider themselves Technologically Oriented Enthusiasts.

Many members have purchasing powers beyond there own needs. They are considered the Mavens of technology by the enlarged family and friends. They buy, and or give purchasing suggestions to other too.

They suppose to understand technology and read through Marketing.

Otherwise, they are only Money Wasters Enthusiasts that are buying expensive marketed technology without understanding what they buy.
 
Originally posted by: JackMDS
What is even more bothersome is that manufacturers of good 802.11g starting to phase out the 802.11g lines and before the end of the year we would be in real dire situation.

I.e. No good Wireless, only kitchen sink of expensive Drafts.
Click to expand...
That's the bit that worries me. G gear is old, both in the sense of the wireless spec and because so many of these devices comes with circa-2004 ARM processors. The list of wireless routers that can actually process 50Mb internet service is shockingly low and it's not getting any better. Meanwhile Draft-N gear ships with better processors, switches, and RAM suited for that kind of work, but it's grossly incompatible with other Draft-N gear.

I need to upgrade my network this year, but the current situation absolutely blows. We need a standard and we need it yesterday.
 
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: JackMDS
What is even more bothersome is that manufacturers of good 802.11g starting to phase out the 802.11g lines and before the end of the year we would be in real dire situation.

I.e. No good Wireless, only kitchen sink of expensive Drafts.
Click to expand...
That's the bit that worries me. G gear is old, both in the sense of the wireless spec and because so many of these devices comes with circa-2004 ARM processors. The list of wireless routers that can actually process 50Mb internet service is shockingly low and it's not getting any better. Meanwhile Draft-N gear ships with better processors, switches, and RAM suited for that kind of work, but it's grossly incompatible with other Draft-N gear.

I need to upgrade my network this year, but the current situation absolutely blows. We need a standard and we need it yesterday.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the Asus WL-500 G Premium v2. It's a Wireless G router that certainly has the capability to keep up with today's internet. I've seen processors for the N routers and this router has the same speed of processor. This is usually what I recommend to people but A LOT of people I talk to won't get anything unless it's N on the box. This is also the router I use at my home and I know I put A LOT through my internet (20mb FIOS)
 
Originally posted by: JackMDS
Originally posted by: kevnich2the Pre-N stuff being so heavily marketed, can you really blame them?
Click to expand...

Yes I can, and I do. 😉

The membership here (and on other top technology Web Forums) is consists of people that consider themselves Technologically Oriented Enthusiasts.

Many members have purchasing powers beyond there own needs. They are considered the Mavens of technology by the enlarged family and friends. They buy, and or give purchasing suggestions to other too.

They suppose to understand technology and read through Marketing.

Otherwise, they are only Money Wasters Enthusiasts that are buying expensive marketed technology without understanding what they buy.
Click to expand...

I think the major purchasers of this hardware don't actually know any better. Yes, others should that are more into the business but I don't think that's a majority of them. Just my thought though. I'm happy with my Netgear WAG102 for right now. Though it would be nice to FINALLY upgrade to N if it was ever actually standardized. I happen to like reliability over hype though. I've messed with other people's N routers and they're all crap to me, wireless is extremely unreliable, definitely beta.
 
'n is fast for me. Works nicely using Trendnet hardware.

As far as pushing a 'standards' issue. That's why breaking things (i.e. 'hacking') is easy, standardization. Double-edged sword.
 
The main problem that we see with N is interoperability with other equipment and from what I've seen with other people's stuff, the wireless just seems very flaky to me. Sometimes it'll just stop working and require a restart, things like that. Problem with it now is I think it's in a never ending spiral down, with no hope of being fixed now.
 
Originally posted by: shempf
'n is fast for me. Works nicely using Trendnet hardware..
Click to expand...

At the moment it is very hard to make a judgment concerning the None Standart Wireless Offers, there is a variety of pre_N, draft_N, and what ever, everything with slight variation from one reals/upgrade since there is no obligatory standard to adhere to.

Many of the pre-N perform unstable and worse than a good 802.11g (that is why there are sold so cheaply).

Many of the Draft-N performs similar to a Good 802.11g but cost more.

That does not mean that some of the people who buy Draft_N are not lucky.

However the situation as describe above make it so that many of us that are trusted by others to recommend, can Not recommend the Draft_N without the feeling that we might Cheat many users (this is contrary to professional reviewers that like Wall Street brokers do not see their recommendation as Cheat, but rather as their way to make a living).

On the other hand I have No problem to recommend buying for less that $40 a Wireless Router like the Asus, knowing that in most cases the advice will result in good stable feature rich Wireless.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16833320023

Very good as is, and even better when Flashed with DD-WRT ( http://www.ezlan.net/wlan_router.html ).
 
Originally posted by: JackMDS
Originally posted by: shempf
'n is fast for me. Works nicely using Trendnet hardware..
Click to expand...

At the moment it is very hard to make a judgment concerning the None Standart Wireless Offers, there is a variety of pre_N, draft_N, and what ever, everything with slight variation from one reals/upgrade since there is no obligatory standard to adhere to.

Many of the pre-N perform unstable and worse than a good 802.11g (that is why there are sold so cheaply).

Many of the Draft-N performs similar to a Good 802.11g but cost more.

That does not mean that some of the people who buy Draft_N are not lucky.

However the situation as describe above make it so that many of us that are trusted by others to recommend, can Not recommend the Draft_N without the feeling that we might Cheat many users (this is contrary to professional reviewers that like Wall Street brokers do not see their recommendation as Cheat, but rather as their way to make a living).

On the other hand I have No problem to recommend buying for less that $40 a Wireless Router like the Asus. Knowig that most cases our advice will result in good stable feature rich Wireless.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16833320023

Very good as is, and even better when Flashed with DD-WRT () http://www.ezlan.net/wlan_router.html ).
Click to expand...

You make an excellent point Jack, one that I didn't really see before. I'll keep that in mind, though I don't recall ever actually recommending Draft N products. I usually recommend the Asus that you mentioned, it's definitely a proven, stable product.
 
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