Do you think we will ever have a cure for AIDS???

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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
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Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: soonerproud
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: soonerproud
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Hey there Sparky, list the virii that have been "cured". Not vaccinated against, but an actual cure. Must be all those closed minded, judgemental people trying to make life difficult for those flu sufferers.

What does a cure have to do with the price of tea in China? The post you quoted said nothing about a cure, but was a statement on social conditions of prejudice and discrimination that lead to unsafe behavior in the gay and lesbian community.

Now tell me how discrimination has caused conditions that lead to the spread of influenza?

Might want to re-read what you wrote.

Originally posted by: soonerproud
We will cure AIDS when close minded, judgmental people quit trying to make life difficult for people who had no choice in the first place on their sexuality.

Looks like you were definately headed down the "cure" route.

For the record, no I don't think there will ever be a cure. Vaccine possibly, but no cure.

A cure does not necessarily mean a total destruction of the virus in a persons body. A cure is giving a person the ability to keep HIV inactive without having to take any more drugs. A Vaccine that does that could be considered a cure.

You seem to know a lot about this virus.

I guess then I've been doing some research.

It seems to me that the HAART combination is quite effective in treating HIV

However, there are a lot of barriers. Such as latent reserves of HIV invected CD4 cells that are not unleased on the body until somehow the immune system is activated. I was reading they were testing with valproic acid to find that it reduced the latient reserves down to 29% in one patient. Which isn't good enough because it needs to be a true 0% for it to work but the HAART treatment could never remove latient reserves.

Every provirus has a trigger that initiates the production of viral products. Herpes, for example, seems to be related to stress and certain signals released when you're stressed out. HIV is a particularly nasty virus. HIV DNA is hiding in a particular type of cell that is "activated" when the immune system senses foreign material.

Unfortunately, it's the activation of those cells that triggers the replication of the HIV itself. So when free floating HIV is detected, and Helper Ts activate to take part in the assault on the virions, the hunter becomes the hunted, so to speak. The act of trying to destroy it leads to it's reproduction. Theres a difference between infected cells (those with virus protein within it) and those cells with viral DNA in the genome. The viral DNA is totally silent, and gives off no sign of its presence.

But in the body, which has billions of T-cells, theres always a number of active cells. Your body is continually under assault, you just dont notice it most of the time until the infection gets really bad and you get a cold, for instance. So no matter how hard you try to destroy the virions in the bloodstream and tissue, theyre always being produced somewhere, somehow.

Understanding that, there could never be a guarantee that even if there were no detectable virus in your blood, even if for all intents and purposes you were perfectly healthy and your immune system could deal with the virus - you could still potentially spread it.

I would hesitate to call anything a cure as long as the possibility for transmission to another person is still there. You might have immunity to a bacteria or virus, but that immunity doesnt come along for the ride when you infect someone else. Your body might have been able to take care of EBV (Mono) a decades ago - you kiss someone who's never had it, and 48 days later, they'll start showing symptoms.

The day may come when we "cure" a virus - but HIV won't be the first.

I was also reading it would take a lifetime to eradicate the HIV virus from the human body??????

What does this mean exactly

You can never eradicate a virus. Your immune system can learn to deal with it (HPV, EBV), but its still around, and you're still infectious. But when your immune system itself is infected, and trying to fight it worsens the problem, I suppose you could say that the virus will be eradicated in a lifetime - your own significantly shortened one.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,381
8,131
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well maybe, you never know, penicillin was a mistake basically...

aids could be wiped out pretty much if people really wanted to.
lock down borders
aids screen everyone by force
tattoo those who have aids as the marked
enforce harsh punishments if the marked go after relationships with the unmarked
repeat testing year after year....

its a lot of trouble, so its just an accepted cost. frankly a lot of the coutries ravaged by aids are reproducing far too quickly anyways so they really don't care.

Hitler? Is that you?

:roll:

I wonder how many here know that Isaac Asimov died of AIDS, contracted from a blood transfusion...

Oh yeah, it's all behavior... :roll: DIAF Nazis...

Asimov contracted it in '83. They didn't start testing for it until '85. A year before he contracted it was still being called GRID.

About 5% of all reported AIDS cases are from blood transfusion. It's around 10% in Developing countries. If you check these numbers the, percents are even less than that for the US. The "other" which includes blood transfusions is a tad above 1% off all reported cases. Now that includes all other reasons...not just transfusions.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm

In Britain your chance of getting HIV through a blood transfusion is 1 in 2.5 million. Your chances of dying in an airplane are 1 in 2 million.

http://hazmat.dot.gov/riskmgmt/riskcompare.htm

Does it happen? Yes. But is it that frequent...I guess that depends on your view.
 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
You seem to know a lot about this virus.

I guess then I've been doing some research.

It seems to me that the HAART combination is quite effective in treating HIV

However, there are a lot of barriers. Such as latent reserves of HIV invected CD4 cells that are not unleased on the body until somehow the immune system is activated. I was reading they were testing with valproic acid to find that it reduced the latient reserves down to 29% in one patient. Which isn't good enough because it needs to be a true 0% for it to work but the HAART treatment could never remove latient reserves.

I was also reading it would take a lifetime to eradicate the HIV virus from the human body??????

What does this mean exactly

A little background.

In 1998 I got a tattoo at a shop that was supposed to be clean and was certified by the state of California as such. I was infected with HIV by that tattoo. Needless to say the shop owner has been prosecuted and his shop shut down. I was one of several people infected during this time period at this shop.

I had no clue I was infected until 2003 when I went to the doctor for what I thought was the flu. The Doctor noticed I had thrush and ordered test for HIV. My T-cell count was 13. It was the health department in my state that found out how I was infected after investigating and finding the shop I went to was closed and the owner jailed for several people being infected in his shop.

I was completely unaware (and ignorant) that I was at risk for HIV and therefore never tested. As far as I know, I have never passed it on to anyone because I have always practiced safer sex.

This is why I have knowledge of this virus. I was as ignorant as most of the posters in this thread are at one time. My hope is by sharing this that I am able to shed some light on HIV disease and AIDS. It could happen to any one of you, even if you are not in the typical risk group. It does not just affect gays. It also affects straight men like myself also. All of you need to be tested at least once a year ( six months is even better) even if you are married and you think you are in a monogamous relationship.

Ignorance is the number one reason why HIV still spreads.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: BD2003
There is no chemical compound that can tackle that problem. Something would literally have to enter your cells and deactivate the code. That is simply impossible with current technology, and any forseeable future technology.

Talking is apparently a lot easier than reading :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_silencing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_regulation

Do you actually understand that or do you just link to stuff that sounds like it has the answer?

How exactly are you going to get into the nucleus of a cell *without destroying it* to deactivate (by methylation or otherwise) a specific sequence? Not only that, but how are you going to *find* all the cells that have HIV Proviral DNA in the first place, and not only that, but find them without destroying tissues in the process? And how are you going to prevent the immune system from doing something about it when you try?

RNAi wouldnt require entering the nucleus to deactivate the proviral sequence, but again, how are are you going to get microRNAs or the machinery to produce them into the cell, and how are you going to keep the RNAi continually transcribed and flowing? And with a quickly mutating virus like HIV, how are you even going to know what exact sequence to look for and interfere with?

Its one thing to play with these ideas in a lab. Actually putting them into practice in the human body something entirely different. A chemical compound is far too crude a tool to achieve what needs to be done in order to effectively "cure" the disease.

Getting DNA into the genome is a *much* easier job than controlling its regulation - and we can't even do that very well right now.


i've worked in lab where one of the investigators was noodling on an RNAi and microRNA project. cool stuff...in a tube! GL doing some in vivo (human) studies anytime soon, though
;)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
Originally posted by: soonerproud
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
What I want to know is what the HELL kind of drugs Magic Johnson is using. It's like he dosen't have HIV.


easy:

$$$$$$$$

Wrong again. Magic Johnson is on HAART. The same drugs available to all AIDS patients. The drugs inhibit the ability of HIV to attach itself to T-cells and effectively stops it's ability to reproduce. When patients take these drugs, the virus is literally reduced to levels that are undetectable. These drugs have been made available even to patients that can not afford them through various private, state and federal programs.

You people really need to become educated on HIV.


Oh, I am. I'm just not Magic Johnson's biographer. Had no idea what he was on.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,896
32,695
136
Originally posted by: soonerproud
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
You seem to know a lot about this virus.

I guess then I've been doing some research.

It seems to me that the HAART combination is quite effective in treating HIV

However, there are a lot of barriers. Such as latent reserves of HIV invected CD4 cells that are not unleased on the body until somehow the immune system is activated. I was reading they were testing with valproic acid to find that it reduced the latient reserves down to 29% in one patient. Which isn't good enough because it needs to be a true 0% for it to work but the HAART treatment could never remove latient reserves.

I was also reading it would take a lifetime to eradicate the HIV virus from the human body??????

What does this mean exactly

A little background.

In 1998 I got a tattoo at a shop that was supposed to be clean and was certified by the state of California as such. I was infected with HIV by that tattoo. Needless to say the shop owner has been prosecuted and his shop shut down. I was one of several people infected during this time period at this shop.

I had no clue I was infected until 2003 when I went to the doctor for what I thought was the flu. The Doctor noticed I had thrush and ordered test for HIV. My T-cell count was 13. It was the health department in my state that found out how I was infected after investigating and finding the shop I went to was closed and the owner jailed for several people being infected in his shop.

I was completely unaware (and ignorant) that I was at risk for HIV and therefore never tested. As far as I know, I have never passed it on to anyone because I have always practiced safer sex.

This is why I have knowledge of this virus. I was as ignorant as most of the posters in this thread are at one time. My hope is by sharing this that I am able to shed some light on HIV disease and AIDS. It could happen to any one of you, even if you are not in the typical risk group. It does not just affect gays. It also affects straight men like myself also. All of you need to be tested at least once a year ( six months is even better) even if you are married and you think you are in a monogamous relationship.

Ignorance is the number one reason why HIV still spreads.

Jesus Christ that's terrible.

Hopefully he got a long ass prison sentence.
 

Ophir

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2001
1,211
4
81
Originally posted by: BD2003
Once that viral DNA is in the genome, its there to stay. Seriously. Its impossible to fully remove. The viral particles can be attacked in order to slow replication and hold the virus at bay, as is the focus of current research - but thats no cure.
What about zinc finger nucleases? Could we not tailor a zinc finger to identify a conserved sequence in pathogenic HIV and clip it out? Obviously, this is a hell of a problem with retrovirus that has no inherent proofreading when it reverse transcribes, but it is within the realm of conceivable reality.

Unfortunately, gene therapy is such a politically motivated topic that we will not likely see commercial applications for 20 or 30 years.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Hell no! There is far more profit in treating the symptoms of HIV than treating the disease itself!

As a "bonus" for the drug companies, someone who's been infected and being successfully treated can spread HIV to other people, expanding their user base! And unlike other STD's like Herpes, you can't skip the treatments if you want to stay alive!

If it wasn't for those pesky people in Africa who can't afford the new drugs, they would have the perfect chronic illness to boost their profit margins.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Originally posted by: Ophir
Originally posted by: BD2003
Once that viral DNA is in the genome, its there to stay. Seriously. Its impossible to fully remove. The viral particles can be attacked in order to slow replication and hold the virus at bay, as is the focus of current research - but thats no cure.
What about zinc finger nucleases? Could we not tailor a zinc finger to identify a conserved sequence in pathogenic HIV and clip it out? Obviously, this is a hell of a problem with retrovirus that has no inherent proofreading when it reverse transcribes, but it is within the realm of conceivable reality.

Unfortunately, gene therapy is such a politically motivated topic that we will not likely see commercial applications for 20 or 30 years.

Zinc fingers are the closest possible thing to removing specific sequences, but from what I've read about them, theyre about as accurate as a carpet bomb, and its unclear if a systemic treatment using them targeting your own genome is even feasible. I'm also quite skeptical a protein that large can ever get through the blood-brain barrier. Its hard enough to get single molecules through. If they can perfect the technology, it will certainly have applications for treatment. But I'd be quite worried about the potential for cancer if the wrong sequence was clipped. It only takes one cell gone awry.

I hear a lot of things that sound like the answer to a lot of diseases, but theres almost always something that makes it less than wonderful in the end. Ive read theyre trying to engineer resistant lymphs in vitro, and then go the full body irradiation route, destroy your immune system, replant the resistant cells into bone marrow and hope for the best. I have a bit of a difficult time seeing the destruction of the immune system as a step in the treatment of an immunodeficiency - you dont fight fire with more fire. But then again, injecting inactivated virus to defend against real virus once sounded more than a bit crazy too, so who knows. All I know is that I wouldnt want to be the first one they try that procedure on.

 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
In the long term, a cure seems within the realms of possibility:

Designer Enzyme Cuts HIV Out of Infected Cells

"Scientists have constructed a custom enzyme that reverses the process by which the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) inserts its genetic material into host DNA, suggesting that treatment with similar enzymes could potentially rid infected cells of the virus. In tests on cultured human tissue, the mutated enzyme, Tre recombinase, snipped HIV DNA out of chromosomes..."



I think in the short term we will see more and more HIV-negative people taking prophylactic HIV medications (i.e., people who do not have the HIV virus will take antiviral medications, so that if they DO get exposed to HIV, the virus won't be able to get a foothold in their body). I think this will start out in first world countries with people who are at higher risk of contracting HIV such as sexually active gay men.

People should also be aware that it is possible to get a "night after" treatment, where if you do have unsafe sex (e.g., because you were drunk or whatever) or if you get a needlestick injury, you can go on a regime of anti-HIV drugs for a few months which prevents the virus from getting hold in your body. However in most instances where people contract the virus they almost certainly wouldn't have been aware of their exposure to it in the first place, and so wouldn't realise to seek out this kind of drug treatment.
 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: soonerproud
A little background...

That is very shocking to hear. How are you doing now health wise? Do you find the medications are helpful?

Health wise I still have problems resulting from opportunistic infections I suffered a few years ago. I lost over 50% of my hearing in my right ear and I still have equilibrium problems due to scar tissue on my ear drum. I suffer from chronic dermatitis that requires me to use lots of lotion and causes chronic itching. Then there is the depression and I don't have the mental clarity I used to. (HIV affects the brain horribly) I also still suffer from lack of energy at times making it difficult to do every day task. ( I am not posting this for sympathy. Please take this information to heart and take care of yourself. Practice safer sex, do not share needles (Get off the drugs damnit!) and get tested regularly.)

The meds are a miracle. They literally brought me back from the brink of death. While I am not as well as I could be without the disease, I am healthy enough to enjoy life. I am actually thinking of returning to work. (Damn it gets boring sitting around!) Now if I can just quit smoking. Damn those cigarettes!
 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
In the long term, a cure seems within the realms of possibility:

Designer Enzyme Cuts HIV Out of Infected Cells

"Scientists have constructed a custom enzyme that reverses the process by which the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) inserts its genetic material into host DNA, suggesting that treatment with similar enzymes could potentially rid infected cells of the virus. In tests on cultured human tissue, the mutated enzyme, Tre recombinase, snipped HIV DNA out of chromosomes..."



I think in the short term we will see more and more HIV-negative people taking prophylactic HIV medications (i.e., people who do not have the HIV virus will take antiviral medications, so that if they DO get exposed to HIV, the virus won't be able to get a foothold in their body). I think this will start out in first world countries with people who are at higher risk of contracting HIV such as sexually active gay men.

People should also be aware that it is possible to get a "night after" treatment, where if you do have unsafe sex (e.g., because you were drunk or whatever), you can go on a regime of anti-HIV drugs for a few months which prevents the virus from getting hold in your body.

The Night After treatment shows promise. It is still inconclusive if it is effective enough to prevent infection.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: soonerproud
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: soonerproud
A little background...

That is very shocking to hear. How are you doing now health wise? Do you find the medications are helpful?

Health wise I still have problems resulting from opportunistic infections I suffered a few years ago. I lost over 50% of my hearing in my right ear and I still have equilibrium problems due to scar tissue on my ear drum. I suffer from chronic dermatitis that requires me to use lots of lotion and causes chronic itching. Then there is the depression and I don't have the mental clarity I used to. (HIV affects the brain horribly) I also still suffer from lack of energy at times making it difficult to do every day task. ( I am not posting this for sympathy. Please take this information to heart and take care of yourself. Practice safer sex, do not share needles (Get off the drugs damnit!) and get tested regularly.)

The meds are a miracle. They literally brought me back from the brink of death. While I am not as well as I could be without the disease, I am healthy enough to enjoy life. I am actually thinking of returning to work. (Damn it gets boring sitting around!) Now if I can just quit smoking. Damn those cigarettes!

Glad to hear you are doing OK (if not fully OK, then at least able to enjoy life). :thumbsup: Do you think you will eventually return to work? I suppose newer drugs will continue to be developed as we go forward, which will have fewer side effects and be even more effective. I'm not surprised to hear you have some depression. I imagine it would be very difficult to deal with the situation you are in without experiencing a fair amount of anger and depression.

 

soonerproud

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2007
1,874
0
0
The main reason I have not returned to work already is that I was self employed and this whole affair has put me in default to the IRS. I am working on getting that hurdle over come and will return to work as soon I am guaranteed to be able to earn a living without my wages being taken. I really should have done a better job with my taxes to begin with.