Do you think the cops killing of this man was justified? Video inside

[ahenkel]

Since they were serving a legal warrant, and he was in the commission of a felony at the time (narcotics possession) he would have no legal defense. He'd be given the death penalty for sure.

The argument that he's in the commission of a felony at the time so the shooting is justified is a weak one. As far as I could tell from the video at the time he wasn't in the commission of a felony. He was a suspect but hadn't yet been arrested let alone charged with a crime and as its already been stated the argument could be made he didn't hear the officers announce themselves

 

[dabuddha]

There was such a case where the police burst into a man's home, he fired at the police, and they shot back and killed him. Turns out they had the wrong house, yet were cleared of any wrong doing.

We are moving to a police state and loosing our rights. All because people are willing to give up their freedoms for the false sense of safety.

Seriously, do you need a strike team and SWAT for a low level drug dealer?

This. Normally I support the police but wtf are they using a no knock warrant if it's only drugs. I fucking hate drug dealers/users but a no knock warrant is just asking for trouble. Now if it's a murder suspect, go for it.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

This. Normally I support the police but wtf are they using a no knock warrant if it's only drugs. I fucking hate drug dealers/users but a no knock warrant is just asking for trouble. Now if it's a murder suspect, go for it.

Just pray no one ever points at your house when the cops are looking for a murder suspect.

 

[waggy]

the shooting will be found justified. really takes a lot to not be found justified.

I do think no-knock warrents should be very very rare. they are getting used more and more.

its sad that someone who is thinking they are under attack and defending themselves get shot. at least this time they got the right house.

 

[MotF Bane]

LOL... a whole lot of maybe's going on here.

Strange place to keep a golf bag. If he lived in a rough neighborhood and wanted to have a weapon nearby for protection, a bat would be a more logical choice. He's disorganized but he's able to remember that a golf club was propped outside his bedroom seconds after being woken up. In the video, the police bust in at 0:23 and the guy appears in the hallway at 0:27-0:28 and is shot a second later.

Or Occam's Razor says he wasn't asleep and he heard them yelling "POLICE! SEARCH WARRANT! POLICE SEARCH WARRANT!"

That's what you define as a strange place to keep a golf bag. I don't know his exact thought process, neither do you.

Oh, so he's wide awake, but comes out to meet the police carrying a golf club anyways? No, that doesn't fit at all.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The argument that he's in the commission of a felony at the time so the shooting is justified is a weak one. As far as I could tell from the video at the time he wasn't in the commission of a felony. He was a suspect but hadn't yet been arrested let alone charged with a crime and as its already been stated the argument could be made he didn't hear the officers announce themselves

The problem is, as I and others have already stated; These thugs and gang members do home invasions EXACTLY like the swat teams. They kick the door down, scream "Police!" until they get control of the situation, hold you at gunpoint and rob you (and that's if you're lucky)



As a homeowner and US citizen I've done nothing to even remotely warrant a no knock situation on my home. Therefore, if anyone enters my house by force I will assume that they're there to take my life and will act accordingly - and I really don't care who they claim to be.

 

[MotF Bane]

The problem is, as I and others have already stated; These thugs and gang members do home invasions EXACTLY like the swat teams. They kick the door down, scream "Police!" until they get control of the situation, hold you at gunpoint and rob you (and that's if you're lucky)



As a homeowner and US citizen I've done nothing to even remotely warrant a no knock situation on my home. Therefore, if anyone enters my house by force I will assume that they're there to take my life and will act accordingly - and I really don't care who they claim to be.

Just make sure you have enough ammunition ready to kill them all.

 

[FDF12389]

I do think no-knock warrents should be very very rare. they are getting used more and more.

That's because DAs and Detectives don't want to lose precious evidence.

This. Normally I support the police but wtf are they using a no knock warrant if it's only drugs. I fucking hate drug dealers/users but a no knock warrant is just asking for trouble. Now if it's a murder suspect, go for it.

Murder suspect? TV much? The only time when no knock should be used by default is for fugitives(All else being equal). Suspected murderers and drug dealers should be in the same category and subject to discretion based only on their individual characteristics.

 

[bignateyk]

You know what scares me the most about all this?

About 2 months ago two officers showed up at my house. They tried to open my front door without knocking. Upon finding it was locked, they knocked and I came and opened the door. They asked me if so-and-so lived here and I was like "uhh.. no I've never heard of that person before". They wouldn't tell me why they were looking for him or why they thought he was in my house. Now I'm scared they are going to bust through my door in the middle of the night some night looking for this guy.

That would be a messy scene seeing as how I live with two police trained german shepherds and sleep with a loaded 12ga under the bed.

 

[Zargon]

You know what scares me the most about all this?

About 2 months ago two officers showed up at my house. They tried to open my front door without knocking. Upon finding it was locked, they knocked and I came and opened the door. They asked me if so-and-so lived here and I was like "uhh.. no I've never heard of that person before". They wouldn't tell me why they were looking for him or why they thought he was in my house. Now I'm scared they are going to bust through my door in the middle of the night some night looking for this guy.

That would be a messy scene seeing as how I live with two police trained german shepherds and sleep with a loaded 12ga under the bed.

my neighbor had the same thing happen

I called in a barking dog about 11:30pm, it was the neighbor on the otherside of his duplex.

yes, I called the cops on a barking dog, the little shithead had barked till about 2am and kept me up the night before so I was done putting up with it.

the neighbors had left their house wide open while not home, so the officer called for a backup unit, they went through that side of the duplex and didnt find anyone, so they tried to walk right into my buddys side of the duplex, waking his shepard and rott.

he answered the door with a loaded handgun and the officers were 'annoyed'

I know the 2 cops and they arent total idiots but seriously, you wake someone up at midnight trying to walk into their house, piss off their dogs, and then shine flashlights into the house without yelling POLICE or anything?

pretty good way to get your ass shot

 

[her209]

That's what you define as a strange place to keep a golf bag. I don't know his exact thought process, neither do you.

Oh, so he's wide awake, but comes out to meet the police carrying a golf club anyways? No, that doesn't fit at all.

Not the first time someone tried to take on the cops even when they knew it was cops. I don't think a jury would buy that the guy was asleep, then hears a bang, gets up from his bed, grabs his club (where ever he keeps it), and runs out to hallway.... all within 4-5 seconds.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Just make sure you have enough ammunition ready to kill them all.

A situation like that would not end well no matter what;

To me, I'm not preparing myself to defend from a 'police' home invasion. I merely know that the police have no right to kick down my door - therefore I'm going to assume anyone forcing their way into my house is intending to take my life or worse.

 

[yh125d]

That's because DAs and Detectives don't want to lose precious evidence.

But they have no problem risking the lives of the occupants so they maybe catch a guy with some pot or coke



No-knock warrants, at least in the volume they are issued today, just goes to demonstrate how cavalier the justice system can be with peoples lives.

 

[FDF12389]

But they have no problem risking the lives of the occupants so they maybe catch a guy with some pot or coke



No-knock warrants, at least in the volume they are issued today, just goes to demonstrate how cavalier the justice system can be with peoples lives.

Oh I'm not disagreeing that at all, the frequency of these raids is alarming. The war on drugs needs to end.

 

[OutHouse]

Since they were serving a legal warrant, and he was in the commission of a felony at the time (narcotics possession) he would have no legal defense. He'd be given the death penalty for sure.

first off your are an idiot and should stfu

1. in Utah Less than 1 oz for pot is a misdemeanor not a felony and the punishment is 6 months. $1000. NOT DEATH!

2. the warrant was for his girlfriend who no longer lived there.

3. cops did not follow their SOP when it comes to no knock raids.

4. Did not have the warrant with them at the time of the raid.


lots of system failures took place that got this man killed.

 

[OutHouse]

Not the first time someone tried to take on the cops even when they knew it was cops. I don't think a jury would buy that the guy was asleep, then hears a bang, gets up from his bed, grabs his club (where ever he keeps it), and runs out to hallway.... all within 4-5 seconds.

why not? sounds perfectly reasonable.

what do you think he should have done, taken a shower, brushed his teeth first then grabbed the club?

and why are you so hung up on the guy keeping a golf club in his bedroom? so fucking what if he did.

 

[Phokus]

A situation like that would not end well no matter what;

To me, I'm not preparing myself to defend from a 'police' home invasion. I merely know that the police have no right to kick down my door - therefore I'm going to assume anyone forcing their way into my house is intending to take my life or worse.

I think that's the relevant part. You don't know if it's a criminal or cop, you're fucked whether you do nothing or go guns blazing. This is why no knocks should be illegal.

 

[Vette73]

Not the first time someone tried to take on the cops even when they knew it was cops. I don't think a jury would buy that the guy was asleep, then hears a bang, gets up from his bed, grabs his club (where ever he keeps it), and runs out to hallway.... all within 4-5 seconds.

I had some kids knock on my door in the middle of the night. I was up and out of bed in less than 3 seconds and unlocked the door and caught 1 of them. I just shook him and scared the shit out of him. Just some kids knocking and running, so I let him go after a few choice words as well.

So yea I can see him easily getting up with a golf club after hearing someone scream in the middle of the night.
I had a baseball bat when I was in college near my bed and grabbed it a couple times when woken up.

 

[her209]

why not? sounds perfectly reasonable.

Sounds reasonable if you're the Flash.

 

[alkemyst]

They know these no-knocks are going to result in deaths. It's a cop ploy and the politicians are all for it as a dead perp is no cost.

 

[OutHouse]

Sounds reasonable if you're the Flash.

i really do not know what your argument is. its clear that the the guy was in bed sleeping. cops bust in through his door. scares the guy not knowing wtf is going on, he grabs a golf club and gets shot.

so what exactly are your saying? the guy was lying in wait to do battle with a highly armed, armored swat team with a golf club while wearing his boxers and a tee-shirt?

 

[vhx]

This should make home invasions easier.

1. Bust in to house.
2. Yell POLICE.
3. Homeowner doesn't attempt to defend himself.
3. ???
4. Profit.

 

[her209]

i really do not know what your argument is. its clear that the the guy was in bed sleeping. cops bust in through his door. scares the guy not knowing wtf is going on, he grabs a golf club and gets shot.

so what exactly are your saying? the guy was lying in wait to do battle with a highly armed, armored swat team with a golf club while wearing his boxers and a tee-shirt?

A poster put forth the idea that he was asleep when the police were yelling and didn't hear them. I'm saying he's was awake and heard the police identifying themselves. Given the short amount of time between the door breach and when the guy appeared in the hallway.

 

[OutHouse]

A poster put forth the idea that he was asleep when the police were yelling and didn't hear them. I'm saying he's was awake and heard the police identifying themselves. Given the short amount of time between the door breach and when the guy appeared in the hallway.

why is that so hard to believe? i guarantee you if i was asleep and was woken by my front door being kicked in i would be up and armed in as fast as that guy was.

have you ever been around a sleep walker? its really weird. when people are jolted out of sleep their body movements and primal instincts are fully awake but their mind is still waking up.

i see it like this the guy was asleep and get jolted out of bed by swat team. there is a lot of noise, flashlights and his flight or fight mode kicked in and since he was cornered he went into fight. it doesn't matter the cops were yelling his brain was still not fully awake to comprehend what was going on. if the cops took 5 seconds to get him to calm down he would be alive.

havent you ever gone to be dog ass tired and when your alarm went off and for a few seconds you had no idea where you were?

 

[ShawnD1]

This. Normally I support the police but wtf are they using a no knock warrant if it's only drugs. I fucking hate drug dealers/users but a no knock warrant is just asking for trouble. Now if it's a murder suspect, go for it.

Maybe it was a hardcore weed dealer and they thought he would be way too chill when they arrest him. Storming his house will make him less chill.