do you think that Tookie Williams should executed?

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Not real familiar with the case, but if he committed the murder(s) that he was convicted of then yes. IMO it doesn't matter how much time has past or how many good things you've done since, if you kill someone you should pay the price
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,573
1
0
he wrote a chlidren's book and won a nobel prize, so no. All convicts that write children's books and win nobel prizes should be given carte blanche to murder/rape/pillage as they please
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Depends. Is he working on a railroad and are there other workers on another track? Also, am I a doctor or not?
 

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
was he found guilty by a jury of his peers?
was he legally given the death penalty?

yes, and yes, so ... yes!
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
He's doing good for society now. He's opening eyes for children who wants to join that kind of lifestyle, and i'm sure he's having an influence on those who are already in it as well.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Here's what I said about it on another forum about the same topic:

Well good. I'm glad that this criminal has turned his life around and been such an inspiration to society. I'm sure his writing will go on changing lives and saving lives much after he's executed for the crimes he committed.

The death penalty isn't something to mock. He got it for a reason. It's not "now be nice for the next 25 years or we'll kill you" it's "you REALLY ****** up and this is your penalty regardless of what else you do from this point on."

Come December 13th, they'd better be strapping his ass to a table and tapping his arm for a vein.

He was convicted and sentanced to death 25 years ago. He gets executed on the 13th, IIRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Tookie_Williams

Anyway, he's been nominated for the nobel and stuff.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/people/cst-nws-williams27.html

Stars come out for gang founder on Death Row
November 27, 2005

LOS ANGELES -- Jamie Foxx stepped into the spotlight at his latest movie premiere with more than the usual publicity drill in mind.

Don't let it happen, the actor urged -- don't let the State of California execute Stanley Tookie Williams, the convicted murderer and Crips gang co-founder who has been recast behind bars in the role of peacemaker.

Foxx is not alone. An unusually varied collection of Hollywood stars and other famous names is trying to convince Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger that Williams -- who has become a celebrity in his own right -- can do more for society alive than dead.

Williams' supporters range from the holy (Archbishop Desmond Tutu) to the streetwise (rapper Snoop Dogg, himself once a Crip).

Whether a movie-star governor is more inclined to consider their pleas for clemency is debatable. But the chorus is only growing louder as Williams' Dec. 13 execution by lethal injection approaches.

His supporters cite Williams' efforts to curb youth gang violence, including nine children's books and an online project linking teenagers in America and abroad. A Swiss legislator, college professors and others repeatedly have submitted his name for Nobel peace and literature prizes.


Says he's unimpressed

Last weekend, Snoop Dogg told about 1,000 people rallying outside San Quentin State Prison that Williams' activism has touched him.

''His voice needs to be heard,'' said the musician, whose new song, ''Real Soon,'' touts Williams' anti-gang efforts.

Last week, the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Bianca Jagger, a death-penalty opponent and former wife of rocker Mick Jagger, visited San Quentin. Jackson said he prayed with Williams, promising, ''We are going to fight for you, and we are going to win.''

Foxx, who played Williams in ''Redemption,'' a 2004 movie that brought the Death Row inmate's story to a wider audience, used the New York premiere of ''Jarhead'' to issue his plea.

In a recent jailhouse interview, Williams said he is unimpressed by his prominent supporters (''I'm blase about everything'') and relies on his attorneys to evaluate the benefit of efforts on his behalf.

Hollywood's political and social activism has been known to provoke criticism. But Williams said he is unconcerned that his famous boosters could create a backlash that might sway Schwarzenegger against him.

''In the position I'm in, I don't see how anybody can hurt,'' he said. ''The truth is the truth no matter where it comes from.''

Schwarzenegger said Friday he would consider granting clemency to Williams. The governor said he would meet Dec. 8 in a private hearing with Williams' lawyers, Los Angeles County prosecutors and others involved.

'Extraordinary transformation'

Williams, 51, who saw the notorious gang he co-founded with a childhood friend spawn copycats worldwide, denies committing the 1979 murders that put him on Death Row. He was convicted of killing a convenience store worker and, days later, killing two motel owners and their daughter during a robbery.

The crimes Williams was accused of were ''heinous,'' said former ''MASH'' star Mike Farrell, a longtime death-penalty opponent. But Williams has made ''an extraordinary transformation,'' said Farrell, who has lobbied for him for several years.

In apparent recognition of the power of the pro-Williams movement, the state Department of Corrections launched an unusual counterattack questioning the sincerity of his anti-gang conversion and alleging he remains involved with the Crips.

Lora Owens, stepmother of victim Albert Owens, opposes clemency and resents the celebrity involvement.

''I think most of them are abusing their popularity and their access to the media,'' she said. ''It's an agenda. If they looked at the facts, then they'd realize Williams has not done anything to deserve clemency.''

Williams' link to the entertainment world was cemented with the biographical movie shown on TV and at film festivals, including Robert Redford's Sundance. Several of those involved in ''Redemption,'' including Foxx and co-star Lynn Whitfield, have become backers.

''If Stan Tookie Williams had been born in Connecticut in the same type of situation, and was a white man, he would have been running a company,'' Foxx said when the film aired last year on FX. ''But, born a black man who has the capability of having brute strength and the capability of being smart in the ways of the world, he's going to get into what he gets into.''

Williams' support is particularly deep among blacks but extends much further, Farrell said. Working with Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Farrell gathered signatures from more than 100 religious leaders, lawmakers and others of prominence for a clemency request that went to the governor last Monday.

Sympathy from the governor?

Among those whose names are attached: NAACP Chairman Julian Bond; U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa); actor Harry Belafonte, singer Bonnie Raitt and actor Russell Crowe.

Is there reason to think that Schwarzenegger's Hollywood ties might make him more receptive to celebrity pleas?

''No,'' Farrell said flatly. ''One would hope that because he comes out of an industry beyond the political world that he's less subject to the pressures of politics, but, unfortunately, his career hasn't demonstrated that.''

If Schwarzenegger commutes Williams' sentence to life imprisonment, it would be the first time a California governor has done so since 1967. That's when Ronald Reagan -- the last actor-turned-politico to govern California -- spared the life of Calvin Thomas, a 27-year-old man convicted in a firebombing that killed his girlfriend's toddler son. His lawyers argued that Thomas was brain-damaged.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: Looney
He's doing good for society now. He's opening eyes for children who wants to join that kind of lifestyle, and i'm sure he's having an influence on those who are already in it as well.

Would you be comfortable with him living next door to you, and babysitting your kids?
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: Looney
He's doing good for society now. He's opening eyes for children who wants to join that kind of lifestyle, and i'm sure he's having an influence on those who are already in it as well.

Would you be comfortable with him living next door to you, and babysitting your kids?

With the man he is now? Sure. I for one believe that people can change for the better.
 

SaltBoy

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2001
8,975
11
81
I love his fro from the 70's, and that's all I have to say 'bout that. :)
 

Leper Messiah

Banned
Dec 13, 2004
7,973
8
0
meh. If he was so concerned about society and what he did wrong, he would know that he has to die to show people the ultimate penality for his actions.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: Looney
He's doing good for society now. He's opening eyes for children who wants to join that kind of lifestyle, and i'm sure he's having an influence on those who are already in it as well.

Would you be comfortable with him living next door to you, and babysitting your kids?

With the man he is now? Sure. I for one believe that people can change for the better.

People can change for the better, and it appears that he has, and we must execute him anyway because we said we would and we can not take the chance that he is just a really good actor. Sad but true.
Capital punishment is not actually a punishment, nor is it justice or revenge. It is simply the only sure way to permanently remove a danger to our society. He has been declared such a danger by a group of his peers, and that decision has been confirmed many times over the years. Just because a dangerous thing can also do good does not make it safe.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: Looney
He's doing good for society now. He's opening eyes for children who wants to join that kind of lifestyle, and i'm sure he's having an influence on those who are already in it as well.

Would you be comfortable with him living next door to you, and babysitting your kids?

With the man he is now? Sure. I for one believe that people can change for the better.

People can change for the better, and it appears that he has, and we must execute him anyway because we said we would and we can not take the chance that he is just a really good actor. Sad but true.
Capital punishment is not actually a punishment, nor is it justice or revenge. It is simply the only sure way to permanently remove a danger to our society. He has been declared such a danger by a group of his peers, and that decision has been confirmed many times over the years. Just because a dangerous thing can also do good does not make it safe.

How much danger is he to society from behind bars? The fact that he's been able to do so much in such a restricted environment shows how sincere he is. Playing a farce for a short time may be possible, but for 20some odd years?
 

QurazyQuisp

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2003
2,554
0
76
I don't think he should, at 51, he has many more years left, and those could be used to stop people from joining gangs. After reading Monster.... it puts me in a different view in regards to gangs.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
And you can use that 'logic' for any crime. Why let anybody out on parole after commtting a crime... since there's such a danger that they're going to reoffend. Why should any convict reform if they're never going to be given a second chance.
 

imported_Pablo

Diamond Member
Jan 20, 2002
3,714
1
0
I don't think its any better for the government to kill him than it is for him to kill other people. Its not like the world will be a better place without him.
 

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
Originally posted by: Looney

How much danger is he to society from behind bars? The fact that he's been able to do so much in such a restricted environment shows how sincere he is. Playing a farce for a short time may be possible, but for 20some odd years?

Look how many ppl have escaped from jail just this month alone. Look how many ppl were parolled, had their sentenced overturned or let out for whatever reason, only to commit other crimes. I am not saying it could/would happen in this case. I am saying it is not impossible.

Additionally, he did the crimes. Forgiveness does not mean that people get off without punishment. I am all for forgiveness, but penalties/punishments still need to be fulfilled. In this case, his crimes of muder and rape... his penalty cost him his life. He has had 20+ years longer on this planet than his victims did, but the bottom line is... he was dealt a penalty/punisment and it needs to be followed thru.

And it is no ones fault but his own.