Do you think it's okay to pirate a game if a demo is never released?

[Eeezee]

While discussions of piracy are welcome here, openly admitting to software piracy is not permitted. Please cease doing so, or it will result in the offending members posting privileges being suspended. - PC Gaming Moderator - KeithTalent

Inspired by the Spore discussion, I thought to myself "What happens if a demo is never released?"

I won't buy a game if I can't play it for 5 minutes. Under this circumstance, I'd consider piracy just to be able to try the game. If it's enjoyable, then I'd go out and buy it.

 

[Martimus]

No. I just won't buy it if I am on the fence about buying it and no demo is available. I have already gotten my identity stolen once, and don't feel like opening myself up to having it happen a second time by using P2P programs.

 

[Canai]

Yes. Try before you buy is the way to go.

 

[angry hampster]

I believe "trying before you buy" is necessary. It's a shame when demos don't come out for big games.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: angry hampster
Very happy in both situations.

Might want to edit that... I've been warned for similar.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: Martimus
No. I just won't buy it if I am on the fence about buying it and no demo is available. I have already gotten my identity stolen once, and don't feel like opening myself up to having it happen a second time by using P2P programs.

edit: That doesn't mean that I won't try it from a friend if they have it. I did that with Starwars Battlefront, and I ended up buying it. So I guess I will pirate something to try it out, if I just borrow the CD from someone. I don't like the whole idea of pirating though, especially a cheap game (as opposed to something expensive like AutoCAD), so I will just buy the game if I like it enough to actually play it.

Off topic I realize, but how exactly do you think you're getting your identity stolen by using bittorrent?

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: Martimus
No. I just won't buy it if I am on the fence about buying it and no demo is available. I have already gotten my identity stolen once, and don't feel like opening myself up to having it happen a second time by using P2P programs.

edit: That doesn't mean that I won't try it from a friend if they have it. I did that with Starwars Battlefront, and I ended up buying it. So I guess I will pirate something to try it out, if I just borrow the CD from someone. I don't like the whole idea of pirating though, especially a cheap game (as opposed to something expensive like AutoCAD), so I will just buy the game if I like it enough to actually play it.

Off topic I realize, but how exactly do you think you're getting your identity stolen by using bittorrent?

I used some sort of P2P software to download a couple of songs (since I was too lazy to go to the store to buy the CD for the 2 or 3 songs I wanted to get, and iTunes wasn't big enough at the time for me to know about it, or maybe it didn't exist at all), and who knows what kind of spyware I downloaded with it. Especially if you are d/l program files, like games. I won't install that stuff on my computer anymore, because it just isn't worth it. I don't want to have to worry about paying bills online (which is how my identity was stolen, someone accessed my account online, using my username and password).

 

[Ramma2]

Is there any other product out there that you can spend 40-60$ on, take it home, and have it either:

Not run at all
Run very poorly
Be unplayable due to bugs
Be unfinished
Or just plain suck

That you then can't take it back and get your money returned? Buying games without some knowledge of how its going to perform or entertain is borderline insanity. And the fact that we can't hold the game makers responsible for the shit they push on us or get a refund is criminal.

 

[Tempered81]

I'm a choad

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Canai
Yes. Try before you buy is the way to go.

We've had this discussion before - but what happens if you "try" and decide not to buy? You've just taken all the legitimacy out of the ethics of your statement.

 

[IL2SturmovikPilot]

Originally posted by: Canai
Yes. Try before you consider buying is the way to go.

Fixed for ya buddy

 

[Maleficus]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
Yes. Try before you buy is the way to go.

We've had this discussion before - but what happens if you "try" and decide not to buy? You've just taken all the legitimacy out of the ethics of your statement.

not really, you try it, decide it sucks, uninstall it.

decision made.

piracy is only bad if you use it to obtain something you want/enjoy with no intention of paying for it regardless of how much you like it.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Ramma2
Is there any other product out there that you can spend 40-60$ on, take it home, and have it either:

Not run at all
Run very poorly
Be unplayable due to bugs
Be unfinished
Or just plain suck

That you then can't take it back and get your money returned? Buying games without some knowledge of how its going to perform or entertain is borderline insanity. And the fact that we can't hold the game makers responsible for the shit they push on us or get a refund is criminal.

The other option is just to wait it out - the price always drops. Due to the current backlog of games sitting on my desk begging to be played and the fact I'm cheap, I rarely buy a title for full price and/or within 6 months or less of release. I just wait until the price comes down to the $20 range (and plenty of reviews have been published) and get it then. By then hopefully all the bugs have been patched as well, and if the game is awful, I'm only out $10-20. Developers may not want to hear that I won't buy games at full MSRP, but at least I'm not stealing it.

 

[RandomFool]

Poll seems a bit biased to me. Just because I don't like to pirate games doesn't make me a choad.

 

[Piuc2020]

I only disapprove of piracy when someone who has the opportunity and resources to buy the game (a game he/she likes) but doesn't do it and still plays the pirated version, I could care less about poor chinese-men pirating games they would never be able to afford otherwise, at least they are enjoying themselves and not hurting anyone in the process.

I also hate developers who try to put the blame on piracy and I'm not too fond of the anti-piracy elitists who think a a $500/month income person should buy all their games and should be punished for ruthless theft for even glancing at a torrent application.

As for the topic at hand, yes I think it's okay to pirate a game to try it if you have the sufficient moral backbone to buy the game when you actually want to play it though honestly I'm not worried, piracy is NOT hurting gaming at all, despite what some whiney CoD developers (knee deep in cash) might want you to believe.

 

[shortylickens]

Am suprised this thread only got a warning and not a lock.


Anyway, I dont support piracy, and I dont rationalize excuses to do so.
I dont think its stealing, but I still think its wrong, and if you need to make up reasons to justify doing it then you know its wrong too.

I do support demos and try to recommend companies make and release demos whenever possible. But I make all kinds of suggestions to game companies that never get responses. I dont know if they read 'em or not.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: Maleficus

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
Yes. Try before you buy is the way to go.

We've had this discussion before - but what happens if you "try" and decide not to buy? You've just taken all the legitimacy out of the ethics of your statement.

not really, you try it, decide it sucks, uninstall it.

decision made.

piracy is only bad if you use it to obtain something you want/enjoy with no intention of paying for it regardless of how much you like it.

This.

 

[SexyK]

You can't justify piracy this way. There is no legitimacy behind the "you try it, decide it sucks, uninstall it" line of reasoning. For example, how long can you play before deciding it sucks? 10 minutes? 1/4 of the way through the game? 1/2 way through? Should you really be able to play half the game and then decide it sucks and just never pay for it? The entire concept is bogus, and I am willing to bet that most people who download a game "just to try it" end up playing it until they're bored, and never buying it, telling themselves "oh it wasn't that good, I wouldn't have bought it anyway."

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Canai

Originally posted by: Maleficus

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
Yes. Try before you buy is the way to go.

We've had this discussion before - but what happens if you "try" and decide not to buy? You've just taken all the legitimacy out of the ethics of your statement.

not really, you try it, decide it sucks, uninstall it.

decision made.

piracy is only bad if you use it to obtain something you want/enjoy with no intention of paying for it regardless of how much you like it.

This.

... is illegal. There is nothing else in consumer goods (unless explicitly given - more later) that doesn't require you to pay for it, unless it specifically says "try before you buy". Most retailers have generous enough policies that if the item doesn't function like it should, you can return it for an exchange (if materially defective) or refund (if technically defective). Software is the same. If there is no sanctioned "try before you buy" (a demo), then you're plain stealing. It's the same as walking into Walmart, picking up a toaster and saying, "Gee, I think I'll try this for a few days to see if I like it" without stopping at the checkout on the way out. Don't try to say there is no material damages, because there is.

 

[ProfJohn]

How would you react if the company you want a job with said "Come in and work for us for a week for free so we can see your work ethic"

Of course you would never go for that, yet some how you think it is fine to steal a game because they didn't release a demo?

 

[Maleficus]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
How would you react if the company you want a job with said "Come in and work for us for a week for free so we can see your work ethic"

Of course you would never go for that, yet some how you think it is fine to steal a game because they didn't release a demo?

it's called a probationary period.

 

[Maleficus]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai

Originally posted by: Maleficus

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
Yes. Try before you buy is the way to go.

We've had this discussion before - but what happens if you "try" and decide not to buy? You've just taken all the legitimacy out of the ethics of your statement.

not really, you try it, decide it sucks, uninstall it.

decision made.

piracy is only bad if you use it to obtain something you want/enjoy with no intention of paying for it regardless of how much you like it.

This.

... is illegal. There is nothing else in consumer goods (unless explicitly given - more later) that doesn't require you to pay for it, unless it specifically says "try before you buy". Most retailers have generous enough policies that if the item doesn't function like it should, you can return it for an exchange (if materially defective) or refund (if technically defective). Software is the same. If there is no sanctioned "try before you buy" (a demo), then you're plain stealing. It's the same as walking into Walmart, picking up a toaster and saying, "Gee, I think I'll try this for a few days to see if I like it" without stopping at the checkout on the way out. Don't try to say there is no material damages, because there is.

except with 99% of other goods, such as a toaster, you know exactly what you are getting, you see what it will provide right on the box. Without a demo, and even WITH most demos, you don't know what you're getting when you buy a game. you have an IDEA, but it's like getting a birthday gift and hoping you know what it is by the size, there is really no way to tell without opening it up and finding out.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

I'm not usually concerned with the quality of the game, afterall I have bought my fair share of crappy games.

What I'm more concerned about is a demo that will let me see how the game will run on my system. Which is the most frustrating part of PC gaming and having a laptop.

 

[skace]

I'm a choad, however I don't like your poll options. See, I would say that warezing a game to test it before purchasing it might actually be a good idea, but I still don't think it is "ok". See the difference? Knowing something is not OK but still doing it as opposed to pretending something is OK by some preconceived sense of entitlement.

It's been said before but a lot of warez titles are based on betas/alphas/early release clients and because of this can often be a disservice to the person using them to decide whether they want to buy the game.

I think it is very important the developers release a GOOD demo in a timely fashion. I would often suggest this be released before the game is out, ala Qtest or something to that respect.

 

[Zenoth]

You might also want to include a poll for the question "No, it's never okay to pirate anything; I'm a choad and lack the willpower to buy the game if I like the copy I downloaded", and ask how many of those voters never really pirated a game in their life.