Do you think it's inappropriate for Execs to drive their Ferarris and Lamborgini's to work?

[Fern]

Originally posted by: jemcam
I think it's in poor taste, but if the guy has an ego that big, so what?

The CEO of my company (to remain nameless but it's been in the top 20 of Fortune 500 companies forever. My company is fairly frequently the topic of discussion here in ATOT) drives a rusty older Suburban. He's been CEO for over 20 years and his salary is printed in the paper every year. I think it's because he's a humble person and it's not important to him what kind of car he drives, he's secure enough with his performance and stature and doesn't need to flaunt it. I frequently see him around town, at the hardware store buying rat traps, etc. I think it's cool and I respect him a hell of a lot more than I would if he were into flaunting his money and trying to live the playboy lifestyle.

Yeah, I had a boss like that. But what changed him driving the expensive luxury cars and wearing the bling was a robbery. He got his @ss kicked and his fancy stuff ripped off.

After that it was a Toyota and a timex.

Fern

 

[CollectiveUnconscious]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
My father was the VP and part-owner of a fairly successful mechanical engineering firm and was banned, as were all executives, from purchasing any car over 40k or of the "luxury" brand. The CEO thought it would hurt moral of others in the office. My father was recently bought out, and the first thing he did was buy a used Mercedes, priced at 41k, and drove it to the office for his "retirement" party.

That anecdote aside, no, I don't think it is inappropriate.

If I were an employee I would seriously think about switching careers because I would not want to end up like the poor VPs who can't afford $40k cars.

It's not that they couldn't afford it, it's that the CEO made it a condition in their partnership agreement that they couldn't purchase certain cars.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jemcam
I think it's in poor taste, but if the guy has an ego that big, so what?

The CEO of my company (to remain nameless but it's been in the top 20 of Fortune 500 companies forever. My company is fairly frequently the topic of discussion here in ATOT) drives a rusty older Suburban. He's been CEO for over 20 years and his salary is printed in the paper every year. I think it's because he's a humble person and it's not important to him what kind of car he drives, he's secure enough with his performance and stature and doesn't need to flaunt it. I frequently see him around town, at the hardware store buying rat traps, etc. I think it's cool and I respect him a hell of a lot more than I would if he were into flaunting his money and trying to live the playboy lifestyle.

I think it depends though. What if the person simply enjoys the car? If I were earning $500K/yeah, I guarantee that the first thing I would do is go out and buy a Ruf Rt12. Now, I'd probably drive that car for 10-20 years before getting rid of it (if I got rid of it at all), but just beacuse I like a sportscar that isn't available at lower incomes doesn't mean that I'm flaunting it. Why waste money on a second car just to avoid possibly offending someone with a thin skin?

Everyone has something that they like, an area in which they are passionate. For some of us, that area is automobiles. If we can afford to buy the one car that we really want, why should we have to worry about what other people think about that decision? I can guarantee that when I'm driving any of my cars I'm not thinking about how other people see the car. I'm thinking, "Man, I LOVE driving this car!". And that's precisely what it is. I love _driving_ the car. I don't give two sh*ts about being seen in the car.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: sao123
The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

Pure capitalism will stabilise itself. The spiral you talk of cannot happen because as the market for a good declines, there will always be new entrants with other goods that are in early phases of their lifecycle and therefore necessarily non-automated.

As for capitalism needing socialism, that's ridiculous. The only think that socialistic policies have done is harm the overall economy. Saying that capitalism needs socialism is like saying a sprinter needs cement shoes.

ZV

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
My father was the VP and part-owner of a fairly successful mechanical engineering firm and was banned, as were all executives, from purchasing any car over 40k or of the "luxury" brand. The CEO thought it would hurt moral of others in the office. My father was recently bought out, and the first thing he did was buy a used Mercedes, priced at 41k, and drove it to the office for his "retirement" party.

That anecdote aside, no, I don't think it is inappropriate.

If I were an employee I would seriously think about switching careers because I would not want to end up like the poor VPs who can't afford $40k cars.

It's not that they couldn't afford it, it's that the CEO made it a condition in their partnership agreement that they couldn't purchase certain cars.

I meant to add, "if i didn't know that the CEO made that stupid rule"

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

 

[AdamK47]

The problem I see here is that non car people generally think a person who owns a Fararri or Lamborgini are people that only have them for status and want to be seen in them. Believe it or not there are people who buy them to have fun and drive them. Some actually take them to a track *GASP*. Now, there are many times more who do buy them simply because they can and want something to be noticed in. I can't stand those people.

 

[amicold]

Originally posted by: EKKC
what do you expect them to drive then, a Kia?
more motivation for everyone to work their way up

Not everyone can get to the top Mr. $

 

[amicold]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
suck it up. if i had the money i would get a nice car as well. hell when i got promoted at my job, i got a new car the next week.

ROFLMAO, you drive an SRT-4!

 

[secretanchitman]

Originally posted by: neutralizer
No. You have the money to afford those cars, it's good enough to show it off.

you said it goooood my friend.

 

[EGGO]

Originally posted by: HomeAppraiser

Originally posted by: EGGO
As a college student, I'd say it's equivalent to feeling inappropriate for the teacher to come in driving a BMW. It's just no big deal at all. It's a car, a car they could afford, a car that's made to bring them wherever.

That is COMPLETELY different!! A teacher does not take away from a students grades to pay for his expensive car. The exec can afford that car because his workers don't make enough to fill the gas tank of their ten year old POS Dodges with failing a/c.

That money came from my paying the college $20k per semester and getting only an 8'x10' room with 2 electrical outlets. I even have to still pay for my own books.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

what are you comparing to? USA's poverty live like kings compared to African children. Fvcking spoiled brat.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

Why are people unemployed? The service industry has plenty of openings.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

does that take into account retired people working part time? does that take into account college students?

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
That said, why do CEO's get golden parachutes and no one else does?

Because they're offered an employment package to take the responsibility for the entire company. What would it take to get you to risk having your name all over the papers, a la Enron?

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

does that take into account retired people working part time? does that take into account college students?

This survey only takes into account available work force.
(those able willing and seeking work)

students, retirees, & disableds are not included in the survey.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: sao123
12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4% of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?

Yes.

Please explain why it is desireable to have everyone working. Bear in mind the fact that poverty rates are incredibly highly inversely correlated with IQ and explain why people without the skill to be contributors to society should be given jobs at comparable pay to people who are capable of contributing greatly. Given that only 6.66% of the population with an IQ above 90 is unemployed for more than 1 month and given that the normal estimate for a healthy unemployment rate due to frictional unemployment is around 7%, explain how the system is failing these competent people.

With very, very, very rare exceptions, the reason that people are unemployed is either A) the people are unemployable or B) the people are lazy or arrogant and refuse to start at the bottom.

ZV

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

Why are people unemployed? The service industry has plenty of openings.

beign employed isnt good enough... these workers must be employed, and have salary equal to or above the poverty level...

 

[Revolution09]

hell no 😛 if I owned a lambo or a ferrari I'd be driving it to work 😀

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Specop 007
That said, why do CEO's get golden parachutes and no one else does?

Because they're offered an employment package to take the responsibility for the entire company. What would it take to get you to risk having your name all over the papers, a la Enron?

honestly not much. most people wouldn't mind making a few blunders for a massive golden parachute. don't make this "responsibility" more than it really is. most aren't people who were founders, i understand founders would sometimes have an idea that they wanted to secure their legacy. but ceo's for hire? they come in to milk the cow dry and run. gaming the bureaucracy built up in large companies. as for the papers, who cares, unless you went to the level of criminal charges its forgotten in a year or two and you are filthy rich and comfortable for life. who wouldn't want to play a game where if you lose, you still win😛

and don't make it sound like something so incredible, this "responsibility and reputation", people take far less money to risk life and limb in iraq.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sao123


the person has no reason to leave if there was a world wide salary cap.
No matter where he goes... he will never make more than the cap.

PS... any moron middle manager can run a company... It doesnt take a millionaire CEO to make decisions about how to run an enterprise. any moron off the street can look at data and make a decision.

then why aren't you making $500k in a fortune 500 as a middle manager?

JS80 is right, there is a significant difference in the mindset of what is required between managing a company and having been around along enough to tell a few people what to do after you've already been told what needs to be done.

and to the original question: no

The unfortunate side effect is that you all can sit at a desk and say that socialism doesnt work... and yet i see the world around you crumbling because capitalism is failing just as bad.

The ultimate methodology of capitalism is full automation... to minimize expenses and maximize profits. unfortunately... automation ultimately decreases the workforce... eliminating consumer spending (for all but the top of the upperclass) thus a loop of self destruction. (you cant make money, if no one can buy your stuff.)

and were seeing that gap between the haves and the have nots going completely out of balance and the world economy is going to fail eventually.

Capitalism and Socialism must maintain a balance... or else neither can survive.

I'm sorry, where in the world has capitalism failed? WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALISM A SUCCESS?

12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4 of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?


census data doesnt lie... capitalism is failing this country.

Why are people unemployed? The service industry has plenty of openings.

beign employed isnt good enough... these workers must be employed, and have salary equal to or above the poverty level...

lower the threshold of poverty level and no one is below the poverty line. It's a numbers game. Bottom line is that number is an arbitrary bullshvt number.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: sao123
beign employed isnt good enough... these workers must be employed, and have salary equal to or above the poverty level...

No, they must have a salary equal to the value of what they are capable of producing or of the position. To pay beyond the value of the position is absurd.

ZV

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: sao123
12.5% USA National Poverty Rate among the working?
37 Million People are working, but not making enough money to meet their basic needs?
69.4% of able workers between ages 16 & 64 are employed?

This is a success?

Yes.

Please explain why it is desireable to have everyone working. Bear in mind the fact that poverty rates are incredibly highly inversely correlated with IQ and explain why people without the skill to be contributors to society should be given jobs at comparable pay to people who are capable of contributing greatly. Given that only 6.66% of the population with an IQ above 90 is unemployed for more than 1 month and given that the normal estimate for a healthy unemployment rate due to frictional unemployment is around 7%, explain how the system is failing these competent people.

With very, very, very rare exceptions, the reason that people are unemployed is either A) the people are unemployable or B) the people are lazy.

ZV

Im not against the a difference between those who contribute greatly, and those who contribute weakly being paid at a different amount, as work should be rewarded...

HOWEVER... not a single worker should ever be paid below the ability to food & shelter themselves and their family. No matter what their IQ is or contribution level.
People arent lazy... theirs just smart enough to not be stupid.
why work a minimum wage job which doesnt pay the bare necessities... when I can sit home on my ass and collect government handouts which pay for all the necessities.

The solution is every working person must be employed, and every job needs to pay above poverty rate, and then eliminate handout programs.