Do you think I NEED a degree?

[Rogue]

My wife keeps insisting that I need a college degree to progress further in my career. I tell her I don't at this point in the game because my experience trumps a degree more often than not. Here's my background:

2 years management experience in an inbound call center environment (left for pay increase)
1 year technical trainer experience in tech support call center including technical writing and presentation (promoted to next position)
4 years Systems Administration experience (desktop, servers, network, printers, etc.) (left for Department of the Army job)
1+ years network security manager for Department of the Army w/ security clearance (current job)
10 years Military Police (law enforcement) experience in the Army Reserve as Investigator and Patrol Supervisor (ongoing other job)

She is worried that if she takes a job elsewhere and we have to move, that I will have a tough time finding work because I don't have a degree. I keep telling her that my experience coupled with my security clearance and my law enforcement background will get me an IT security job just about anywhere. Would you hire me based on the above experience? I should note also, without sounding pompous, that in each position I've held, I've always received the highest reviews and awards compared to my peers.

 

[Reckoner]

You should get a degree.

Experience with no degree = Degree with no experience, both parties are screwed. Unless you know someone.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: Rogue
My wife keeps insisting that I need a college degree to progress further in my career. I tell her I don't at this point in the game because my experience trumps a degree more often than not. Here's my background:

2 years management experience in an inbound call center environment (left for pay increase)
1 year technical trainer experience in tech support call center including technical writing and presentation (promoted to next position)
4 years Systems Administration experience (desktop, servers, network, printers, etc.) (left for Department of the Army job)
1+ years network security manager for Department of the Army w/ security clearance (current job)
10 years Military Police (law enforcement) experience in the Army Reserve as Investigator and Patrol Supervisor (ongoing other job)

She is worried that if she takes a job elsewhere and we have to move, that I will have a tough time finding work because I don't have a degree. I keep telling her that my experience coupled with my security clearance and my law enforcement background will get me an IT security job just about anywhere. Would you hire me based on the above experience? I should note also, without sounding pompous, that in each position I've held, I've always received the highest reviews and awards compared to my peers.

I think you'll do fine. Does the Army pay for any schooling you'd take? If so maybe start a computing security degree part time.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
You should get a degree.

Experience with no degree = Degree with no experience, both parties are screwed. Unless you know someone.

I should note that I am working on it, however, I absolutely HATE going to school. It's just a gauntlet of bull$hit in my opinion. I'm getting it done, slowly. Should have my Associates done here by the end of summer.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Rogue
My wife keeps insisting that I need a college degree to progress further in my career. I tell her I don't at this point in the game because my experience trumps a degree more often than not. Here's my background:

2 years management experience in an inbound call center environment (left for pay increase)
1 year technical trainer experience in tech support call center including technical writing and presentation (promoted to next position)
4 years Systems Administration experience (desktop, servers, network, printers, etc.) (left for Department of the Army job)
1+ years network security manager for Department of the Army w/ security clearance (current job)
10 years Military Police (law enforcement) experience in the Army Reserve as Investigator and Patrol Supervisor (ongoing other job)

She is worried that if she takes a job elsewhere and we have to move, that I will have a tough time finding work because I don't have a degree. I keep telling her that my experience coupled with my security clearance and my law enforcement background will get me an IT security job just about anywhere. Would you hire me based on the above experience? I should note also, without sounding pompous, that in each position I've held, I've always received the highest reviews and awards compared to my peers.

I think you'll do fine. Does the Army pay for any schooling you'd take? If so maybe start a computing security degree part time.

Yes, my GI Bill goes pretty much in my pocket because my Reserve command pays 100% tuition assistance up to $225/credit hour.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: Rogue
I should note that I am working on it, however, I absolutely HATE going to school. It's just a gauntlet of bull$hit in my opinion. I'm getting it done, slowly. Should have my Associates done here by the end of summer.

Lots of people have that opinion of school. I would say maybe 1/4 of the classes I took for my CS degree will ever be useful.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: Rogue
Yes, my GI Bill goes pretty much in my pocket because my Reserve command pays 100% tuition assistance up to $225/credit hour.

I would keep taking full advantage of it.

The job I posted about offers full tuition reimbursement. I am thinking about a MBA or finance degree part time once I get settled.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
You should get a degree.

Experience with no degree = Degree with no experience, both parties are screwed. Unless you know someone.

I should note that I am working on it, however, I absolutely HATE going to school. It's just a gauntlet of bull$hit in my opinion. I'm getting it done, slowly. Should have my Associates done here by the end of summer.

You have some pretty good experience, so you may want to test out the market after obtaining the Associates degree. If you get the feeling from interviewing that employers want you to obtain the bachelor's degree, go back for the remaining 2 years.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Rogue
I should note that I am working on it, however, I absolutely HATE going to school. It's just a gauntlet of bull$hit in my opinion. I'm getting it done, slowly. Should have my Associates done here by the end of summer.

Lots of people have that opinion of school. I would say maybe 1/4 of the classes I took for my CS degree will ever be useful.

1/4? That many?

 

[ranmaniac]

I have an Associate in computer networking, and the only useful classes were the hands-on type courses on Windows, Cisco, and network cabling. I managed to get an internship to install CAT 6 cable in a computer lab etc. The training that I got in connection with a private company would have cost $2000 for a week if I had just tried to get the training through the company. but through the community college, the course was $33.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Rogue
I should note that I am working on it, however, I absolutely HATE going to school. It's just a gauntlet of bull$hit in my opinion. I'm getting it done, slowly. Should have my Associates done here by the end of summer.

Lots of people have that opinion of school. I would say maybe 1/4 of the classes I took for my CS degree will ever be useful.

1/4? That many?

See? My wife and everyone else I know with a college degree rarely if ever has anything nice to say about the process other than, "It helped me get this job..."

In fact, the only people I've ever met that actually like going to college are people that want to educate others and that's about it. For everyone else, it's a means to an end and a pricy and painful one at that.

 

[Miramonti]

If you are matched for a job against someone else with similar credentials, military aside, the one with the degree may get a closer look.

I'd be a hypocrite to preach a degree tho...

 

[91TTZ]

The cream of the crop will rise to the top. A degree surely won't hurt, but in the end it's only a piece of paper. The head on your shoulders is what counts in the long run. The job will hire the more capable person. I know that all the college age kiddies on here (vast majority of the board) will want to claim that the college degree they are currently working on will make this tremendous difference, but in all reality it comes down to the person. If you have a degree but you aren't as skilled or intelligent as another candidate, why would they want to hire you over him? They're not.

 

[everman]

If you hate it, maybe you are studying in the wrong field? I did my best to figure out what I really like and enjoy studying it. GE courses are BS though

 

[TechBoyJK]

don't worry about the degree. Thats a long term project. You should get certified in the fields you want to work in. I dont have a degree, but I have quite a few certs and good experience. I do fine.

You should get
A+
Network+
Server+
CCNA
MCSE

Your golden then.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: everman
If you hate it, maybe you are studying in the wrong field? I did my best to figure out what I really like and enjoy studying it. GE courses are BS though

I was almost done with my CS degree before I realised it may not be the best thing for me. I like programming and have a job doing it, but if I had it to do over I probably would have gone finance.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
You should get a degree.

Experience with no degree = Degree with no experience, both parties are screwed. Unless you know someone.

That's serious naivete if you believe that. Some industries might indeed be that way (financial, law), but fortunately for those with experience most companies require that you actually know how to do something.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
You should get a degree.

Experience with no degree = Degree with no experience, both parties are screwed. Unless you know someone.

That's serious naivete if you believe that. Some industries might indeed be that way (financial, law), but fortunately for those with experience most companies require that you actually know how to do something.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of this board is made of college age guys. Of course they're going to state that a degree is going to make this huge difference. It's self-serving.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Keep in mind that the vast majority of this board is made of college age guys. Of course they're going to state that a degree is going to make this huge difference. It's self-serving.

In my field it does seem to be a requirement. The company I got a job with won't hire any software engineers unless they have a BS. Of course, mileage may vary.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Rogue
2 years management experience in an inbound call center environment (left for pay increase)
1 year technical trainer experience in tech support call center including technical writing and presentation (promoted to next position)
4 years Systems Administration experience (desktop, servers, network, printers, etc.) (left for Department of the Army job)
1+ years network security manager for Department of the Army w/ security clearance (current job)
10 years Military Police (law enforcement) experience in the Army Reserve as Investigator and Patrol Supervisor (ongoing other job)

What sort of security clearance would that be? IIRC, it's really expensive if a company has to get certain security clearances for their employees (background check and all that), so that's a huge plus.

I'm not an employer, but I'd probably consider you over some CSE fresh out of college. Degrees mean less in IT-related fields than other fields.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Keep in mind that the vast majority of this board is made of college age guys. Of course they're going to state that a degree is going to make this huge difference. It's self-serving.

In my field it does seem to be a requirement. The company I got a job with won't hire any software engineers unless they have a BS. Of course, mileage may vary.

They all say that, but they don't really mean it. With enough experience you can get in.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Keep in mind that the vast majority of this board is made of college age guys. Of course they're going to state that a degree is going to make this huge difference. It's self-serving.

In my field it does seem to be a requirement. The company I got a job with won't hire any software engineers unless they have a BS. Of course, mileage may vary.

They all say that, and if you haven't any actual experience they'll likely require it; they have to have something, right?

I can state without equivocation that there's not a software company around that would ignore a developer with talent but without paper. Afterall, software is ultimately a craft and not a science, and the only way to truly ascertain the fitness of an applicant is to refer to past successes.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: jagec
What sort of security clearance would that be? IIRC, it's really expensive if a company has to get certain security clearances for their employees (background check and all that), so that's a huge plus.

I'm not an employer, but I'd probably consider you over some CSE fresh out of college. Degrees mean less in IT-related fields than other fields.

It's taking forever for them to complete mine. As far as I know, they haven't even called any of my personal references yet.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
They all say that, but they don't really mean it. With enough experience you can get in.

I had a year and a half of programming experience. Even in the same industry. But since I had to complete one single class to get my degree, my starting date was pushed back three months.

 

[Svnla]

You don't HAVE to have a degree but I think if you want to move up high in the food chain, you need to have a degree. I have a BS and an MBA with 10 years of professional expereience. Most of the managers and higher up have a college degree. There are a few that don't have a degree but they are only a handful.

A degree + experience + good communication skill + ability to work in team + problem solver = very desireable employee.