Do you think Europe's problems with Muslims will be America's one day?

[bshole]

I answered your question, just not in a way that's to your satisfaction. In general it's not my job here to satisfy you.

No you answered it to my complete and utter satisfaction and expectation. I would have been utterly shocked and perhaps a little dismayed if you had given an honest and straightforward answer. As justoh has stated, you are incapable of taking a positive position on anything. Everybody else's ideas are open for examination but not yours. Why do you bother posting if you aren't going to stand up for what you believe in? Until you can provide your worldview and defend it, nobody is really going to care what your opinion of their worldview is.

 

[nixium]

No you answered it to my complete and utter satisfaction and expectation. I would have been utterly shocked and perhaps a little dismayed if you had given an honest and straightforward answer. As justoh has stated, you are incapable of taking a positive position on anything. Everybody else's ideas are open for examination but not yours. Why do you bother posting if you aren't going to stand up for what you believe in? Until you can provide your worldview and defend it, nobody is really going to care what your opinion of their worldview is.

He's probably going to ramble on something about how your intellect is not up to his standards or how he's not supposed to school you etc etc.

 

[Roflmouth]

Will be?

 

[agent00f]

No you answered it to my complete and utter satisfaction and expectation. I would have been utterly shocked and perhaps a little dismayed if you had given an honest and straightforward answer. As justoh has stated, you are incapable of taking a positive position on anything. Everybody else's ideas are open for examination but not yours. Why do you bother posting if you aren't going to stand up for what you believe in? Until you can provide your worldview and defend it, nobody is really going to care what your opinion of their worldview is.

So first I didn't answer it, and now I did; appears whatever issues you're having doesn't lie with me. Frankly your question is rather transparent, and I don't feel compelled to play that trite game.

The main objective of a realist is to understand the situation for what it is, which includes underlying motivations of relevant parties. People habitually don't say what they really mean, such is the nature of human language, so some thinking skills are often necessary to tease out what's going on. For example, the massive discrepancy between self-admitted racism and realized racial bias is a real mystery unless this analysis is undertaken. Or another example, your own game to argue that the west is overall better/more advanced than the ME, and therefore some of the ideology above is justifiable.

The previous paragraph sufficiently explains the situation with me. You can choose to attempt at understanding it, or not.

He's probably going to ramble on something about how your intellect is not up to his standards or how he's not supposed to school you etc etc.

I only mock the intellect or whatever of people who pretend to it. This is a public service for the less fortunate who can't tell the difference.

 

[bshole]

Worldviews matter. Some are better are than others. For example, South Korea is one of the richest and most advanced nations on the planet while North Korea is one of the poorest. These two countries are a huge experiment for the entire world to observe.

There are all kinds of metrics you can use to measure the difference between the two:

• GNP per capita
• Freedom index
• Corruption index
• Life expectancy
• Murder rate
• Suicide rate
• Literacy
• Environmental awareness
• Worker's rights
• Popular culture (the arts and film)
• etc..

With the plethora of tools we have developed we are able to determine which systems are better for humanity. To oppose Western Secularism is to ACTIVELY promote authoritarianism, fascism and theocracy and to actively impede the victims of those tyrannies from escaping their bonds. It increases human suffering which is a moral evil.

All that being said, I object vigorously to any US involvement in the Middle East. They should be able to find the path to freedom and enlightenment through our EXAMPLE and not our guns.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Worldviews matter. Some are better are than others. For example, South Korea is one of the richest and most advanced nations on the planet while North Korea is one of the poorest. These two countries are a huge experiment for the entire world to observe.

There are all kinds of metrics you can use to measure the difference between the two:

• GNP per capita
• Freedom index
• Corruption index
• Life expectancy
• Murder rate
• Suicide rate
• Literacy
• Environmental awareness
• Worker's rights
• Popular culture (the arts and film)
• etc..

With the plethora of tools we have developed we are able to determine which systems are better for humanity. To oppose Western Secularism is to ACTIVELY promote authoritarianism, fascism and theocracy and to actively impede the victims of those tyrannies from escaping their bonds. It increases human suffering which is a moral evil.

All that being said, I object vigorously to any US involvement in the Middle East. They should be able to find the path to freedom and enlightenment through our EXAMPLE and not our guns.

A hundred years ago there was no Christians in South Korea, then American missionaries started coming
Now, a third of SK is Christian and you have Christians attacking Buddhists and burning down their temples and beheading statues

https://christianwatchindia.wordpre...nology-of-christian-attacks-against-buddhism/

Since the 1980s and the 1990s there have been events of hostility of Protestants against Buddhists and followers of traditional religions in South Korea. This include the arson of temples, the beheading of statues of Buddha and bodhisattvas, and red Christian crosses painted on either statues or other Buddhist and other religions' properties.[32] Some of these acts have even been promoted by churches' pastors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_South_Korea

 

[bshole]

A hundred years ago there was no Christians in South Korea, then American missionaries started coming
Now, a third of SK is Christian and you have Christians attacking Buddhists and burning down their temples and beheading statues

South Korea has a murder rate of 0.7 while North Korea has a murder rate of 5.2, nearly a 10 to 1 ratio.....

Western Secularism allows religions to exist. I am sorry if that offends you. Are you proposing that we round up Christians and execute them? Where are you going with this?

 

[bshole]

Damn I just saw this....

Kuwait has a murder rate of 0.4, Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.5 and Bahrain has a murder rate of 0.5. That completely FUCKS my point about Islamic countries. I am now all confused......

 

[Orignal Earl]

South Korea has a murder rate of 0.7 while North Korea has a murder rate of 5.2, nearly a 10 to 1 ratio.....

Western Secularism allows religions to exist. I am sorry if that offends you. Are you proposing that we round up Christians and execute them? Where are you going with this?

I've been arguing against the Islamophobes here for over a decade because I believe in freedom of religion
Don't let your imagination get the best of you

 

[Orignal Earl]

Damn I just saw this....

Kuwait has a murder rate of 0.4, Indonesia has a murder rate of 0.5 and Bahrain has a murder rate of 0.5. That completely FUCKS my point about Islamic countries. I am now all confused......

You live in one of the most violent places in the world, yet most of us don't even feel the need to arm ourselves to go outside
It's actually amazing to see so many Americans posting here about Europe burning
I don't know if it's a lack of perspective or mostly just isolated loners with no idea what's goes on in real life

 

[bshole]

You live in one of the most violent places in the world, yet most of us don't even feel the need to arm ourselves to go outside
It's actually amazing to see so many Americans posting here about Europe burning
I don't know if it's a lack of perspective or mostly just isolated loners with no idea what's goes on in real life

Well I would still like an explanation why the Islamic countries I listed are in the 10 safest countries in the world. You did not address that. I have been saying all along that Islamic countries are hell holes. If that is true, what is the explanation for the exceedingly low murder rate in the countries I have listed? It couldn't be the religion, there must be another reason and I want to know what that reason is.

 

[justoh]

Well I would still like an explanation why the Islamic countries I listed are in the 10 safest countries in the world.

link?

 

[Jaskalas]

Well I would still like an explanation why the Islamic countries I listed are in the 10 safest countries in the world.

Social order and stability.
Humans tend to find that easiest in small homogeneous societies, not large diverse ones.
United States is violent precisely because it is a nation of immigrants from all over the world.

 

[agent00f]

Worldviews matter. Some are better are than others. For example, South Korea is one of the richest and most advanced nations on the planet while North Korea is one of the poorest. These two countries are a huge experiment for the entire world to observe.

Worldviews do matter, which is why it's important to point out the abrahamic tradition (carried on by many atheists as well, btw) is great at screwing other people while proclaiming itself the good guy. Notice just how self-righteous every single one of the morons above are about killing those subhuman brownies & such. It's almost as if these metrics of their supposed moral superiority provides a sufficient rationalization for decrepit behavior.

Case in point, does anyone believe the nazis & such went around thinking itself some evil empire? Seems rather obvious they used the exact same excuses of superiority to the mud people to justify whatever good-guy thing they were up to.

There are all kinds of metrics you can use to measure the difference between the two:

• GNP per capita
• Freedom index
• Corruption index
• Life expectancy
• Murder rate
• Suicide rate
• Literacy
• Environmental awareness
• Worker's rights
• Popular culture (the arts and film)
• etc..

With the plethora of tools we have developed we are able to determine which systems are better for humanity. To oppose Western Secularism is to ACTIVELY promote authoritarianism, fascism and theocracy and to actively impede the victims of those tyrannies from escaping their bonds. It increases human suffering which is a moral evil.

All that being said, I object vigorously to any US involvement in the Middle East. They should be able to find the path to freedom and enlightenment through our EXAMPLE and not our guns.

Appears you're just cherry picking the positives. I mean, the nazi weren't all bad either. They were after all pretty western, according to some might as well be secular, or at least weren't as fanatical about jesus as many in the US.

 

[agent00f]

Social order and stability.
Humans tend to find that easiest in small homogeneous societies, not large diverse ones.
United States is violent precisely because it is a nation of immigrants from all over the world.

The US is violent because it has a relatively permanent underclass with so little to lose that violent crime appears a decent career opportunity. Same with brazil, etc. "Nonhomogenous society" is basically the polite way of saying the western colonizers gave their slaves a pretty shit deal.

 

[Jaskalas]

The US is violent because it has a relatively permanent underclass with so little to lose that violent crime appears a decent career opportunity. Same with brazil, etc. "Nonhomogenous society" is basically the polite way of saying the western colonizers gave their slaves a pretty shit deal.

And yet in the Middle East they, presently, have nations with an underclass that resembles slavery.
Apparently that alone does not denote violence.

 

[bshole]

link?

Wiki of course, here are the top 10 safest countries by murder rate

Andorra 0.0 0 Europe Southern Europe 2014
San Marino 0.0 0 Europe Southern Europe 2011
Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe 2008
Japan 0.3 395 Asia Eastern Asia 2011
Singapore 0.3 14 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2014
Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe 2013
Kuwait 0.4 12 Asia Western Asia 2012
French Polynesia (France) 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia 2009
Indonesia 0.5 1,277 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2014
Bahrain 0.5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

 

[justoh]

Which isn't the same as the more general statement of top 10 safest countries in the world.

 

[agent00f]

And yet in the Middle East they, presently, have nations with an underclass that resembles slavery.
Apparently that alone does not denote violence.

Notice much of the crime here or similar is the proverbial black on black, even if the news is more concerned when it affects people who matter. Since we're already talking about the ME, notice that colonialist types are pretty good at creating social breakdown, eg. first the british and now their successors, and there's no reason to believe their competence is diminished with the darkies at home.

Also a lot of those places in ME keep their underclass better placated or at least in line with the oil money.

 

[bshole]

Which isn't the same as the more general statement of top 10 safest countries in the world.

Good point. With regards to Kuwait, here is what wiki says:

There is a low rate of crime in Kuwait.[1] Incidents of violent crime against foreign citizens are extremely uncommon.[2]The country is a destination point for men and women who migrate legally from South and Southeast Asia for domestic or low-skilled labor, but are subjected to conditions of involuntary servitude by employers including physical and sexual abuse, non-payment of wages, confinement to the home, and withholding of passports to restrict their freedom of movement.[3] People from South Asian countries like Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka and Southeast Asian nation like the Philippines are trafficked into Kuwait.[4] Kuwait along with Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia is in Tier 4 rank which has greater wealth, but a worse human trafficking situation.[

 

[Orignal Earl]

Good point. With regards to Kuwait, here is what wiki says:

Kuwait is also only 20% natives and the rest are expats
I have no idea why Americans are so violent

 

[SSSnail]

Because in some countries, honor killings, genocide, suicide bombings, etc... don't show up on murder stats? And, really, who has time to keep track of those stats in those countries?

Oh, and JUST right after the bolded part about violence:
"... but are subjected to conditions of involuntary servitude by employers including physical and sexual abuse, non-payment of wages, confinement to the home, and withholding of passports to restrict their freedom of movement..."

Yeah, great life of slavery. Also, if you kill a slave, I'm sure there will be people reporting it to the census.