Do you think 3d printers will become commonplace in homes?

[gorobei]

we're getting to the point where answering questions will lead to more misunderstandings than clarification, so here's a primer on 3d printing.

Principles: high precision motors and control/calibration from the paper printer industry meant there are cheap parts capable of fine control in the ~30-200 micron range(not sure of the specific #s so this is a for instance ballpark). inkjet printer nozzles and laser cutting/etching tech had also reached commodity level component prices. this and some university projects pointed the way towards 3d printing.


Processes: there are two main processes, extrusion deposition and material bonding.

in depostion, heated plastic is extruded through a fine nozzle onto a flat platform carrier in the X and Y axises creating a 2d layer of material representing a cross-sectional slice of the 3d object. the carrier is lowered or the nozzle assembly is raised in the Z axis and the next slice/layer is extruded on top of the previous layer. the bonding of the current layer to the previous layer is dependent on maintaining a proper temperature range.

in binding: a vat of liquid resin or bin of powder(metal,cornstarch,sawdust,etc) is flattened and a [high precision nozzle sprays the area with a glue binder] or [a laser cures the liquid resin] that solidifies a thin layer of the medium. the carrier is lowered and a fresh layer of medium is brought over the previously bonded layer and the nozzle sprays another cross-section slice/layer.


Hardware:
so most machines are typically:
-laser cured resin
-glue bound powder
-extruded plastic

laser is the most expensive but the most accurate and creates as close to functional item because the cured resin binds better. HP is the main player in this realm and the machine is in the 50-70K$ range and the resin is like 15k$ a pop. it is used for professional grade rapid prototyping.

glue binding powders can range from hobby to professional. metal powder types require additional metal smelting processes to make a finished commercial product. cornstarch or wood powder types require a stronger glue or lacquer to create a sturdier product.

plastic extrusion is the cheapest 1k-5k$ but because of the variety of mediums(ABS,PLA) and colors~20$, can be used for some novel and practical purposes. plastic has more binding and error problems and requires more troubleshooting due to warping from temperature variation.


Software:
objects are typically a polygon format or polygon tessellated nurbs. there are export plugins for most of the 3d and design software programs(including blender i believe). the software included with most printer kits handles slicing up of the polygon model and includes options on how to handle fill the hollow spaces inside what would be a solid object. some even have provisions for building support structures(like sprue trees on scale model kits)for when the object doesn't have a flat base to stand on.


Uses:
these are one off products, you wouldn't want to mass produce anything using a 3d printer. it can take hours to print a single part depending on volume and complexity, and any errors means you have to trash it start over. you use the prototype to work out any design issues and have metal dies made for the mass produced product.

since plastic extrusion is the most common and cheapest and what most people are talking about when we say 'printer in every home', you need to understand the differences and limitations. you are not going to be able to print solid metal object anytime this decade.

aside from art and knicknacks, what you can do is print gears and other mechanical parts from ABS plastic. so if you have a leftover electric motor from a toy/old console vibrating gamecontroller/old battery powered toothbrush you can make all sorts of stuff.
-say you cat is getting fat because everyone in the family keeps putting food in the bowl when its empty. you could take the motor, a usb cable, an empty 2liter soda bottle, and some printed parts and make a timed food dispenser.
-say that remote control for your tv has a broken battery cover, you could print up a replacement rather than wrap it with duct tape.
-say your kid wants a covenant plasma sword toy and no one makes one(actually happened on this forum). you could print up the sword handle and get tap plastics to cut the blade from acrylic. stick in some led lights and you have a hollywood level prop.

 

[Howard]

as i mentioned earlier, the metal powder types still require smelting bronze or other binding metals to solidify. that level of metalworking is probably outside home hobbyist neighborhood. how many people can afford to run a ceramics kiln on residential electricity rates, or a glass furnace for art glass blowing?

That's not correct. Look up DMLS.

 

[BladeVenom]

Is there any way to "recycle" the stuff? So when your kids are done playing with the random item you made, you could melt it down (or whatever) and use it again.

Someone's already made a recycling machine to turn your old plastic into rolls of filament for 3d printing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMNLJUKKNhQ
http://www.wired.com/design/2013/01/filabot-plastic-recycler/

 

[gorobei]

That's not correct. Look up DMLS.

interesting, what's the power usage like?

the glue bind metal system leaves like 50% air volume in the resulting structure that needs to be filled with the bronze infusion in order to be usable.

given the bad rep sintered parts have gotten with gun parts, im surprised they are getting aviation part order. seems like you would need to have really good atmospheric control to avoid any oxide deposits.

 

[BladeVenom]

That's not correct. Look up DMLS.

That system is a bit different than the plastic 3d printers.

The plastic with metal powder for sintering could probably be made to work in almost any of the plastic 3d printers.

I don't think it's outside the realm of the home hobbyist. I think a fair amount of hobbyists have small kilns. Steel parts may be outside the typical hobbyist kiln, but there are plenty of other metals. Tin will melt in any home oven. The process is done for home made jewelry, and silver has a fairly high melting point, although still not as high as steel.

 

[Cpus]

Lol. Maybe if the shit they use to print stuff isn't weak and is affordable.

Oh, and it would help if it was relatively easy to use rather than a mindfuck and didn't take days to create shit.

The stuff takes a few fours to make. The ABS plastic is 10$ per lb. 1lb makes about 15 miniatures.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The more I read on these, the more I want one now. It would be awesome for stuff like building a robot. You can make specific parts like the arms and stuff, and even gears or other mechanical parts needed.

I'm thinking the primary use is probably prototyping or mold making though. You can make an item you want, make a negative one time use mold around it out of clay or other material that can take heat, then cast it with metal. You'd have to reprint for each time you want to make that item though, but there may be a more efficient way I'm not thinking of. Of course for simple things you could make a reusable mold too, like if it's a part that can easily fall out of the mold as opposed to something where it would be completely enclosed. Or multi part molds where the pieces are just put together after the fact.

Could even make advanced stuff like a steam turbine engine or internal combustion engine. Great for a fully custom gas powered RC car or something. That would be totally epic to actually build something like that from scratch.

 

[Cpus]

look up the makerbot replicator 2x. looks amazing but costs 2800

 

[88keys]

They seem to be highly functional and useful. The problem would be 'easy' operation.

Not saying that it can't be taught or learned by the average person, but it would take some degree of skill to the point of needing a professional to operate it.

Tool and Die makers essentially use machinery that does same thing (only in reverse) and while you don't need to be super smart to use them, but you'll need some degree of training to make proper use of them.

Perhaps I can see hobby oriented ones used mostly for arts and crafts and small projects.

But think about this.

Can you draw a highly accurate 3D representation from seperate angles of something simple like a bottle cap on a PC?


One things for sure, Games Workshop will go out of business because they can't sell overpriced action figures.

 

[lxskllr]

Can you draw a highly accurate 3D representation from seperate angles of something simple like a bottle cap on a PC?

It's just like programming. The minority of people have the skills to program, but the majority of people use computers. Plans will be given and sold online, and hobbyists/pros will make some themselves.

 

[Cpus]

It's just like programming. The minority of people have the skills to program, but the majority of people use computers. Plans will be given and sold online, and hobbyists/pros will make some themselves.

pretty sure the companies that make 3d printers have their own consumer friendly software now.

 

[Austin8868]

no but in time it will be. everything will be

 

[lxskllr]

pretty sure the companies that make 3d printers have their own consumer friendly software now.

I don't know how involved it is, but even if the machine itself is easy to operate, /things/ still need to be created, and I would guess that's done with a CAD-like program. That can be challenging for an amateur to operate.

 

[Imp]

But think about this.

Can you draw a highly accurate 3D representation from seperate angles of something simple like a bottle cap on a PC?

Give me a week to brush up on my 3D AutoCAD skills and yes, I could.

I bombed the first lab on 3D CAD, but was pissed that I bombed it, so I went to the lab after class to learn it properly. Nailed the next one and the exam.

The only hard part of 3D CADing is figuring out how the view system and vectors/drawing works. You draw on a 2D screen, so if you don't get the view system, you'll have a perfect shape from one perspective and a million separate/disjointed lines from another.

Personally, I can't think of anything I want that's made of just a chunk of plastic.

 

[exdeath]

I don't know how involved it is, but even if the machine itself is easy to operate, /things/ still need to be created, and I would guess that's done with a CAD-like program. That can be challenging for an amateur to operate.

Why? Just download the part you need and print it.

 

[arkcom]

Why? Just download the part you need and print it.

I doubt most people could even print 1:1 scale on a regular printer.

 

[Howard]

interesting, what's the power usage like?

the glue bind metal system leaves like 50% air volume in the resulting structure that needs to be filled with the bronze infusion in order to be usable.

given the bad rep sintered parts have gotten with gun parts, im surprised they are getting aviation part order. seems like you would need to have really good atmospheric control to avoid any oxide deposits.

You could probably calculate the power requirements by taking the heat of fusion of the mass of the finished object and multiplying by an inefficiency factor, probably around 1/2. Take into account the laser conversion efficiency, the conductivity away from the points to be fused, the motor energy, etc.

I have used products made with DMLS (17-4 specifically) that could not have been made via subtractive production and they are fully dense with good surface finish. Not as good as a milled piece, but good enough for many applications.

 

[NoStateofMind]

I didn't read the entire thread but I'm sure my thoughts mimic others in this thread.

Ever since I first heard of 3D printing my mind went wild with speculation. I've now come to think that not only will 3D printing change our world but will be in each home as well. The biggest drawback right now is materials. The solution used is so expensive that its better to go ahead and buy the product you are replicating than to actually print it. When costs drop the mass changes in how our society functions will begin to change forever.

I can see us using our trash as the solution. Kind of like having a gauge listing paper, rubber, metal levels. Downloads of schematics will tell you how much of which materials to use for replication and maybe even with a good, better, best scenario. Obviously we won't be able to use all our trash as fuel for our Replicator but would be a welcome change. Instead of going to the store for a new controller because your toddler brother chewed off the analog stick won't have to happen anymore. You just go to microsoft website and download the schematics for a price and you get your product without leaving your home.

I can see portable versions for cars. Imagine that your water pipe busts on a vacation trip. Just bust out the old 3D printer and access the included schematics from your cars manufacturer and print.

The possibilities are endless but I'm afraid I will not partake in the best of 3D printing because I'll probably be dead.

 

[Jeff7]

Someone's already made a recycling machine to turn your old plastic into rolls of filament for 3d printing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMNLJUKKNhQ
http://www.wired.com/design/2013/01/filabot-plastic-recycler/

Or rather, it looks like they're planning to have something to market at some point soon. I wonder what they're going to be charging for it?

That'd be handy at work - we've got a cheap 3d printer there that uses PLA filament. If the extruder decides that it's going to randomly stop feeding for a short period, the rest of the model won't have anything to stick to, so I'll come in the next morning to a big mass of thin plastic string. The entire bushy mess gets thrown out, and the print has to start over. And of course, the printed pieces, once they've served their purpose as visual aids or tests of an assembly process, also get thrown away. Not a huge cost, but at around $40/spool (1kg/2.2lbs) off of Amazon, it's not still dirt-cheap. (Which is about half the price of buying it from the printer manufacturer.)
This filament maker would still have to be pretty inexpensive to give a reasonable break-even time.


PLA is actually pretty decent. The red and brown ("gold") colors seem to be best with regard to string formation, and there are no nasty odors of any sort. It sticks easily to a bed that's been given a thin coating of acrylic - a little too well, in fact. If you've got a lot of direct contact area, removing a part can be a challenge. But, if you get too little adhesion to the surface, it will peel up as it cools, and give a deformed part.

The printer at work is a BFB 3dTouch printer. It ships with a godawful printing surface: It's fiberboard with plastic lamination on either side.
- The print heads can melt the surface if they contact it during calibration.
- It warps like hell from temperature changes, humidity, the Moon passing over, and possibly the intestinal rumblings of Cthulu's dog, making it very difficult to get good prints.
Its software (Axon 2) is also pretty lousy, at least when compared to KISSlicer. My favorite part of this program: It makes use of multiple cores when building a part. So the as-shipped software would muddle along slowly on one core (quad-core i7, Hyperthreaded), while KISSlicer would push the processor to full usage. It also must have had other optimizations as well, as it was well over 4-8x faster. A build on Axon 2 might have been 40 minutes, whereas KISSlicer could take a more complex version of the same model (higher triangle density in the STL file) and do it in about a minute.

Anyway, the bed: Since we've also got a CNC router on the premises, I had a printing bed made up out of aluminum. It was planed flat, it doesn't warp, and it doesn't care in the slightest about a little heat on the surface. I'd planned to cover it with Kapton to give a good surface for printing ABS, but that would need a heating pad to get adhesion: More power consumption, it adds complexity to the whole device, and there's a hot aluminum bed to be wary of. Instead, the bed is covered with masking tape that is sprayed with an acrylic clearcoat, which the PLA readily adheres to.

And besides, PLA is a true American plastic: It's made from corn. Everything here is made from corn. Everything.


It's especially useful as a presentation tool. Instead of presenting a design as orthographic drawings, or a 3d model on a computer screen, it's a physical object that's a pretty reasonable representation. It can also be useful to have that as a design tool, if for nothing more than simple reminders of basic physics.
"Oh yeah....matter generally can't pass through other matter."
or
"Right. Gravity exists and will affect this thing. Dammit."

 

[arkcom]

Some guys have built hoppers for extruding HDPE (milk jug) shreds. That would be pretty nice.

 

[silverpig]

yup. i told my boss the other day, the repair world will completely change when you can just print the parts you need.

i suspect over time too, youll be able to select the polymer mixtures to produce flexible or hard parts, whichever you chose and anywhere in between.

I just ordered a little plastic cap / plug for the rinse-aid port on my dishwasher. Amazon was convenient, but a 3D printer would have been nice.

 

[Imp]

Ever since I first heard of 3D printing my mind went wild with speculation. I've now come to think that not only will 3D printing change our world but will be in each home as well. The biggest drawback right now is materials. The solution used is so expensive that its better to go ahead and buy the product you are replicating than to actually print it. (

So, how much does the "ink" cost?

The toner is where the money's at. I doubt they'll (the printer business) change their business model.

 

[Jeff7]

So, how much does the "ink" cost?

The toner is where the money's at. I doubt they'll (the printer business) change their business model.

About $16.40/lb, plus shipping.

Controlling it might be tough. 1.75mm and 3mm filament are available from various vendors.

Though, I guess if anyone wants to be a dick about it, some ways of restricting it:
- Use an odd diameter of filament, and patent it.
- Use some weird shape of filament, and patent it.
- Use a weird spool holder - though the way around that is to print a different spool.

That's what we did: BitsFromBytes' (expensive!) spools have a huge central cutout, but the ones from Onlinefilament at Amazon have a small cutout. So, the first thing the printer made was a new spool holder, which is still in use.

 

[Cpus]

About $16.40/lb, plus shipping.

Controlling it might be tough. 1.75mm and 3mm filament are available from various vendors.

Though, I guess if anyone wants to be a dick about it, some ways of restricting it:
- Use an odd diameter of filament, and patent it.
- Use some weird shape of filament, and patent it.
- Use a weird spool holder - though the way around that is to print a different spool.

That's what we did: BitsFromBytes' (expensive!) spools have a huge central cutout, but the ones from Onlinefilament at Amazon have a small cutout. So, the first thing the printer made was a new spool holder, which is still in use.

Which is better 3mm or 1.75 mm probably 1.75 but not sure

 

[Jeff7]

Which is better 3mm or 1.75 mm probably 1.75 but not sure

I've only ever used the 3mm, since that's what the printer was designed for. I think 1.75mm is preferred now though.
The 3mm can be a pain to feed in at the start of a spool, as it's not terribly flexible. As the bend radius tightens toward the center of the spool, it can resist strongly enough that the printer can no longer pull it through, so it'll stop printing a little sooner than expected. It uses a screw drive to pull the material along; the limit on how much force it can exert is a function of the strength of the plastic. The plastic will eventually start to be torn apart by the screw drive, so the feeding then stops.