Do you think 2010 will be the year of the linux desktop?

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Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Even easier, if game makers just made their games Open GL then they could easily port their games to Mac OS and Linux OS..

OpenGL lacks the complete tool chain offered by directx (and everything that has developed around it).

Much easier to come up with linux versions of the api than to get developers to switch. I'm sure if there was enough money in the endeavor, it would happen.

BTW, linux only has a chance as an appliance OS (chome OS, or maybe a mediacenter where no one even could tell you what OS it's running by looking) unless some hardware vendor (say Dell) picks it up and sells it as a boutique OS and pimps the hell out of it as their version of Mac. Which of course they won't because it lacks high end apps (most linux software is marketed/designed as good enough, rarely superior or even equal unless it's more networky or software codey) and because since it's free, why would they ever bother to foot the legwork on something easily copied? (unless they create a custom linux, ala droid, which barely counts as linux at that point, no more so than a reskinned windows that doesn't run windows apps would count as windows)

Linux's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. With so many distros out there, it's just a mess. There's really no unified effort to streamline it into something easy to use.

I'd say it's hardly an issue at all. Making a distro is relatively minor effort, and most development is shared anyway. A distro is little more than a collection of default installed apps at this point. Of course, trying to move it beyond that breaks compatibility with other distros, and gets into something more OSX like.

If linux ever takes off, you wouldn't even know it's linux. It'll be corporate branded (and that brand won't be ubuntu) and the situation will be similar to the current smart phone market...
Droid, OSX-lite, WebOS, Maemo (in its latest iteration) and probably a few others (Symbian?) are unix based to some extent, but you'd never know. They make huge use of open source, but that's not what people see.

Is it still a pain in the neck to install applications? I remember spending 45 minutes once to get VLC installed...lol

What distro would someone recommend today to play around with? I have a fully loaded HDX16T that could use a new OS.

The Linux distros seem to be standardizing on an app store like interface, rather than trying to follow the windows model of "search google, find sketchy shareware site, download and run exe" it's "start up application center, type keyword into application center, get a list of apps related to that, double click on one."

You'd probably want to go with ubuntu's latest release, it's the most end-user oriented of all the distros, though it is going through some growing pains. Most of the initiatives to improve linux's end user experience were only started within the last few years, and ubuntu quickly migrates to whatever new project that promises to simplify things as soon as possible. This means almost every release breaks compatibility with something, which probably wouldn't effect the average user, but almost everyone has at least one 'special-case' beyond "OS that boots and run Firefox, Openoffice, and a few other minor apps" so there's always some subset of ubuntu users getting pissed off with each release.

It's not much different than new Windows releases tbh, but those only come out once every 2-3 years (1-2 if you count service packs), while ubuntu refreshes every 6 months. And if you choose not to get the 6 month incremental upgrades, you are left with horribly out of date software. Ubuntu's long term releases are once every ~2 years. The first one, 6.06 (that's June 2006) included Firefox 1.5. The next LTS was October 2008 and included the Firefox 3 beta. The April 2010 release will finally include Firefox 3.5, but Firefox 3.6 will be out by then, and Firefox 3.7 probably not long after (which may become Firefox 4.0). It may not sound like a lot, but firefox undergoes some pretty big changes rather rapidly (as do most major open source projects), so your options are either to go with ubuntu's rapid release schedule (not that bad, but can be annoying) or to stick with out of date software.

So to refresh:
Ubuntu's LTS release dates are:
6/06 10/08 4/10
And respectively include Firefox 1, Firefox 3 beta, and Firefox 3.5.

Firefox's release dates are:
1.0 11/04
1.5 11/05
2.0 10/06 (ubuntu skipped this release)
3.0 6/08 (the LTS launched after the final, but still included the beta because that's what they finalized with)
3.5 6/09 (what the next LTS is shipping with)
3.6 Early 2010
3.7 6/2010
4.0 Late 2010 to Early 2011

It's a pain that ubuntu makes you upgrade the whole OS in order to get up to date versions of single apps, which is the primary downside of the whole 'single app for all updates', you pretty much get all-or-nothing upgrades, whereas Windows 2000 running the latest Firefox (which auto updates itself) is still a pretty competent web-browsing platform, but if Windows had the same system as Ubuntu, in order to move beyond Netscape Navigator to the latest firefox release, you'd have to upgrade Windows 2000 to each of its service packs, then to Windows XP, then to each of its service packs, then to Windows Vista, all its services packs, and finally to Windows 7. You'd probably just format and start fresh with Window 7, or buy a new computer whenever you wanted to upgrade. Ubuntu's upgrade model just wouldn't work for joe six pack, at least Microsoft occasionally forces IE to upgrade.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,600
6,084
136
Doubtful, but my router runs Linux.
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
0
The idea of "the year of the linux desktop" is absurd.

that said, I'm a linux user and it has become more and more approachable in recent years.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,139
761
126
Heck no.
Even though it's cool and I use it for networking stuff the uis are a joke compared to vista and 7.
Takes forever to config stuff too
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
23,001
1,196
126
Is it still a pain in the neck to install applications? I remember spending 45 minutes once to get VLC installed...lol

What distro would someone recommend today to play around with? I have a fully loaded HDX16T that could use a new OS.

Not at all, I installed Ubuntu 9.10 tonight, by far the quickest and easiest OS install out there. EVERY single device hooked to my PC worked as soon as the install was done. I didn't have to install any drivers or do anything. Even my printer worked. It's doubtful that will ever happen with a Microsoft OS. I installed Win 7 a few months ago and my hardware that's not even close to cutting edge - I still had to install drivers for just about everything. I'm not going to say using the actual OS is easier, but for the average person who checks emails. surfs the web and IM's. It's not difficult at all. That average person won't have to deal with CLI and using sudo to update drivers and install packages. That's assuming it's not something you can simply click on and BOOM it installs. Ubuntu 9.10 is nice, easy to use and very fast. Game support sucks, but everything else is better. And I <3 Compiz, Windows has nothing even close to as cool.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Not at all, I installed Ubuntu 9.10 tonight, by far the quickest and easiest OS install out there. EVERY single device hooked to my PC worked as soon as the install was done. I didn't have to install any drivers or do anything. Even my printer worked. It's doubtful that will ever happen with a Microsoft OS. I installed Win 7 a few months ago and my hardware that's not even close to cutting edge - I still had to install drivers for just about everything. I'm not going to say using the actual OS is easier, but for the average person who checks emails. surfs the web and IM's. It's not difficult at all. That average person won't have to deal with CLI and using sudo to update drivers and install packages. That's assuming it's not something you can simply click on and BOOM it installs. Ubuntu 9.10 is nice, easy to use and very fast. Game support sucks, but everything else is better. And I <3 Compiz, Windows has nothing even close to as cool.

Ok, what happened when you tried to play a DVD? I bet that wasn't too straightforward (at least it wasn't for me).

Trying to fix the overscan issue I'm having with the plasma screen tv it's plugged into is somewhat similar to banging my head against a brick wall for a few hours. I'm on the verge of just installing windows because I've heard it's not a difficult fix. I've probably spent upwards of 20-30 hours in the last couple of weeks learning how to edit xorg.conf, create EDID .bin files, jump into and out of virtual consoles, track down log files, and reverse all kinds of changes made to 9.1 that erased what little progress I had made.

Yes, this is my frustration showing through, but I'm not trying to do anything crazy, I'm just trying to plug my TV into my computer with an HDMI cable. You don't need to be a genius to use Linux, but you do need a tremendous amount of patience and a willingness to learn.
 

Uppsala9496

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 2001
5,272
19
81
It won't happen until Linux can run everything out of the box with minimal to no effort.

I have Ubuntu on my HTPC. I still can't get DVD's or ripped movies to play in 5.1. Everything is hooked up correctly, however the ALSA drives don't like me.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
23,001
1,196
126
Ok, what happened when you tried to play a DVD? I bet that wasn't too straightforward (at least it wasn't for me).

Trying to fix the overscan issue I'm having with the plasma screen tv it's plugged into is somewhat similar to banging my head against a brick wall for a few hours. I'm on the verge of just installing windows because I've heard it's not a difficult fix. I've probably spent upwards of 20-30 hours in the last couple of weeks learning how to edit xorg.conf, create EDID .bin files, jump into and out of virtual consoles, track down log files, and reverse all kinds of changes made to 9.1 that erased what little progress I had made.

Yes, this is my frustration showing through, but I'm not trying to do anything crazy, I'm just trying to plug my TV into my computer with an HDMI cable. You don't need to be a genius to use Linux, but you do need a tremendous amount of patience and a willingness to learn.

Windows doesn't play DVD's on a fresh install either. I googled "how to play DVD's on Ubuntu" It was slightly more complicated than installing a program. I had to cut and paste a line of text to add a repository to my software sources, I don't know if it works (haven't tried it) but the faq I read said it would do it. Probably the hardest part for me thus far was figuring out how to install Compiz. Ubuntu might not be good for a tinkerer type who isn't very computer savvy. But for someone like my mom who has honestly never installed a single program on her Vista Laptop. She could use Ubuntu just as easily as Windows.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
Not at all, I installed Ubuntu 9.10 tonight, by far the quickest and easiest OS install out there. EVERY single device hooked to my PC worked as soon as the install was done. I didn't have to install any drivers or do anything. Even my printer worked. It's doubtful that will ever happen with a Microsoft OS. I installed Win 7 a few months ago and my hardware that's not even close to cutting edge - I still had to install drivers for just about everything. I'm not going to say using the actual OS is easier, but for the average person who checks emails. surfs the web and IM's. It's not difficult at all. That average person won't have to deal with CLI and using sudo to update drivers and install packages. That's assuming it's not something you can simply click on and BOOM it installs. Ubuntu 9.10 is nice, easy to use and very fast. Game support sucks, but everything else is better. And I <3 Compiz, Windows has nothing even close to as cool.
Also on Opposite Land hamburgers eat people.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
Is it still a pain in the neck to install applications? I remember spending 45 minutes once to get VLC installed...lol

What distro would someone recommend today to play around with? I have a fully loaded HDX16T that could use a new OS.

This is where computer geeks fail. The average user is NOT installing VLC and never will.
 

Kalmah

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2003
3,692
1
76
I installed Ubuntu 9.04 on desktop I scraped parts together to build for my brother-in-law a couple months ago. We have it plugged into his living-room tv.. set up with wireless keyboard and mouse. Once I set up Compiz on it and he saw the cube he was hooked. lol

This guy practically knows nothing about computers. He TRIES though.. unlike most people who just say "I don't know anything about computers" and don't even make an attempt.

He now has it all set up to his liking and he loves it. His last computer was plagued with viruses/malware due to my sister and their kids. And no more having 35 items load up in the taskbar on boot from others in the household installing stupid software. It boots, the second it hits the desktop it's ready.. no waiting for programs to load.

For x-mas, somebody got one of the kids a learning kid's computer game. It looks like a computer that you plug into a computer's USB.. and then it controls sofware in the real computer. I tried getting it to run in wine without any luck. I think I'm about to go over there soon with my second copy of XP.. what a sad day.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,725
13,851
126
www.anyf.ca
Considering most people can barely operate Vista/7, no.

Actually if anything would cause linux to be more popular it would be Vista/7. Out of all the windows OSes this is one of the harder ones to operate imo. XP was a bit hard to get used to but vista/7 flipped things around so much they made it way too hard to do some very simple tasks. You can learn them all, but same goes with Linux, you can learn them all.

The issue though with Linux is there's still too much stuff that requires command line, or that wont work well as a non root user.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
Actually if anything would cause linux to be more popular it would be Vista/7. Out of all the windows OSes this is one of the harder ones to operate imo. XP was a bit hard to get used to but vista/7 flipped things around so much they made it way too hard to do some very simple tasks. You can learn them all, but same goes with Linux, you can learn them all.

The issue though with Linux is there's still too much stuff that requires command line, or that wont work well as a non root user.

The only thing Microsoft succeeded in with Windows 7 is to make it harder for people who already know how to use computers to find the things they need to. It's not complicated to figure out with even minimal effort.

Linux as a desktop is never going to be as popular because most new Linux users don't want to expend the minimal amount of effort it would take to figure out how to fix something or set something up should issues arise. After the cool factor wears off for them, they find out that there's no benefit to them because they're not using it for anything that Linux would excel at anyway.

The honest truth is that most people can't even be arsed to read a fucking man page or spend 10 minutes with google to expand their knowledge and just wait for the next darling Linux OS to come out and dumb things down further for them.

It may seem that I have resentment towards the improvements in the desktop area making Linux more accessible, but that's far from the truth. I just don't understand the mentality of leaping head first into Linux without taking the time to actually learn the strengths. Your last statement says it all: 'too much stuff that still requires command line.' What the hell do you want to use Linux for, aside from it being free, if you're not even going to scratch the surface of its usefulness?
 
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Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
The only thing Microsoft succeeded in with Windows 7 is to make it harder for people who already know how to use computers to find the things they need to. It's not complicated to figure out with even minimal effort.

Linux as a desktop is never going to be as popular because most new Linux users don't want to expend the minimal amount of effort it would take to figure out how to fix something or set something up should issues arise. After the cool factor wears off for them, they find out that there's no benefit to them because they're not using it for anything that Linux would excel at anyway.

The honest truth is that most people can't even be arsed to read a fucking man page or spend 10 minutes with google to expand their knowledge and just wait for the next darling Linux OS to come out and dumb things down further for them.

It may seem that I have resentment towards the improvements in the desktop area making Linux more accessible, but that's far from the truth. I just don't understand the mentality of leaping head first into Linux without taking the time to actually learn the strengths. Your last statement says it all: 'too much stuff that requires command line.' What the hell do you want to use Linux for, aside from it being free, if you're not even going to scratch the surface of its usefulness?

Well, that's elitist. You're saying people can't want something to be improved without going to the other end of the spectrum? Maybe there are people out there that think there could be a faster, more stable, more customizable, easier to user operating system than Windows. You're saying there shouldn't be a Linux distro that addresses those things? The only way to improve your computing experience is to learn the command line or man pages?

Frankly, its beacuse of the attitude of people like you that Linux won't become popular. Microsoft stockholders are thanking you.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
Well, that's elitist. You're saying people can't want something to be improved without going to the other end of the spectrum? Maybe there are people out there that think there could be a faster, more stable, more customizable, easier to user operating system than Windows. You're saying there shouldn't be a Linux distro that addresses those things? The only way to improve your computing experience is to learn the command line or man pages?

Frankly, its beacuse of the attitude of people like you that Linux won't become popular. Microsoft stockholders are thanking you.

I think you misinterpreted the meaning of my post. I'm talking about users who expect Linux to look and perform exactly like Windows and run to forums to post threads on the most basic shit without taking the time to learn anything about what they're installing. I'm simply questioning the motives of users like that.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
I think you misinterpreted the meaning of my post. I'm talking about users who expect Linux to look and perform exactly like Windows and run to forums to post threads on the most basic shit without taking the time to learn anything about what they're installing. I'm simply questioning the motives of users like that.

The question of this thread is if this is the year of the Linux desktop. And because you CAN'T do exactly what you suggested, the answer is no.

Why can't there be a Linux distro that is accessible like that? Why is that so foreign?