Do you support UHC?

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
So where is all this extra money coming from when even Medicare/Medicaid is currently underfunded? Yes the 40 million who don't have coverage will also be now covered, but don't tell me the ones who are paying right now will continue to pay out of pocket when the gov gives out for "free" Also, when your employer isn't going to pay for it now, since the government is going to pay for it, do you think they're actually going to give you a raise instead? Fat chance. And considering that the federal government gets most of it's money from income tax and basically half of the nation's working population doesn't pay (net) income tax, the people who can already afford healthcare now are going to be the only ones truly paying for it.

Some people don't mind assisting the less fortunate in society. It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
So where is all this extra money coming from when even Medicare/Medicaid is currently underfunded? Yes the 40 million who don't have coverage will also be now covered, but don't tell me the ones who are paying right now will continue to pay out of pocket when the gov gives out for "free" Also, when your employer isn't going to pay for it now, since the government is going to pay for it, do you think they're actually going to give you a raise instead? Fat chance. And considering that the federal government gets most of it's money from income tax and basically half of the nation's working population doesn't pay (net) income tax, the people who can already afford healthcare now are going to be the only ones truly paying for it.

Some people don't mind assisting the less fortunate in society. It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

Start a charity.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
So where is all this extra money coming from when even Medicare/Medicaid is currently underfunded? Yes the 40 million who don't have coverage will also be now covered, but don't tell me the ones who are paying right now will continue to pay out of pocket when the gov gives out for "free"

Obviously there would be some kind of national insurance system which everyone pays into, so it wouldn't be any more 'free' than it is now...

Also, when your employer isn't going to pay for it now, since the government is going to pay for it, do you think they're actually going to give you a raise instead? Fat chance.

You think they would simply remove that part of your pay package and replace it with nothing without your consent? In what way is that legal?

And considering that the federal government gets most of it's money from income tax and basically half of the nation's working population doesn't pay (net) income tax, the people who can already afford healthcare now are going to be the only ones truly paying for it.

That is the idea yes...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
So where is all this extra money coming from when even Medicare/Medicaid is currently underfunded? Yes the 40 million who don't have coverage will also be now covered, but don't tell me the ones who are paying right now will continue to pay out of pocket when the gov gives out for "free" Also, when your employer isn't going to pay for it now, since the government is going to pay for it, do you think they're actually going to give you a raise instead? Fat chance. And considering that the federal government gets most of it's money from income tax and basically half of the nation's working population doesn't pay (net) income tax, the people who can already afford healthcare now are going to be the only ones truly paying for it.

Some people don't mind assisting the less fortunate in society. It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

Start a charity.

Which nobody would donate to because they're selfish. Great idea I'm sure that will solve everything.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
So where is all this extra money coming from when even Medicare/Medicaid is currently underfunded? Yes the 40 million who don't have coverage will also be now covered, but don't tell me the ones who are paying right now will continue to pay out of pocket when the gov gives out for "free" Also, when your employer isn't going to pay for it now, since the government is going to pay for it, do you think they're actually going to give you a raise instead? Fat chance. And considering that the federal government gets most of it's money from income tax and basically half of the nation's working population doesn't pay (net) income tax, the people who can already afford healthcare now are going to be the only ones truly paying for it.

Some people don't mind assisting the less fortunate in society. It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

Start a charity.

I volunteer for a non-profit. But charities do not pay for my brother's health insurance while he is an apprentice electrician. Charities did not pay for his health insurance when he was younger either. He broke his foot as a child, and concealed his injury from our mother because she wouldn't have been able to afford the medical bills. His foot is forever deformed. There is no charity to pay for that.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Which nobody would donate to because they're selfish. Great idea I'm sure that will solve everything.

And forced charity at the gun of govt will? How is that great society of LBJ doing anyways?

That said Chairties in this country dont seem to have a problem gathering wealth. Our charities export more foreign humanitarian aid than our govt by multiples. I am sure if you spent as much time loading the gun of govt to point at your fellow citizen for your charity and instead formed your own with a stated mission to provide health care insurance to people who cant afford it, it would do fine.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: n yusef

I volunteer for a non-profit. But charities do not pay for my brother's health insurance while he is an apprentice electrician. Charities did not pay for his health insurance when he was younger either. He broke his foot as a child, and concealed his injury from our mother because she wouldn't have been able to afford the medical bills. His foot is forever deformed. There is no charity to pay for that.

Hence the reason I said start a charity.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

I volunteer for a non-profit. But charities do not pay for my brother's health insurance while he is an apprentice electrician. Charities did not pay for his health insurance when he was younger either. He broke his foot as a child, and concealed his injury from our mother because she wouldn't have been able to afford the medical bills. His foot is forever deformed. There is no charity to pay for that.

Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Some people don't mind assisting the less fortunate in society. It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

It's probably your virtue too. Unless you work for free.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

I volunteer for a non-profit. But charities do not pay for my brother's health insurance while he is an apprentice electrician. Charities did not pay for his health insurance when he was younger either. He broke his foot as a child, and concealed his injury from our mother because she wouldn't have been able to afford the medical bills. His foot is forever deformed. There is no charity to pay for that.

Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

Yours.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

I volunteer for a non-profit. But charities do not pay for my brother's health insurance while he is an apprentice electrician. Charities did not pay for his health insurance when he was younger either. He broke his foot as a child, and concealed his injury from our mother because she wouldn't have been able to afford the medical bills. His foot is forever deformed. There is no charity to pay for that.

Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

Your time obviously, dont you have a passion for this or are you going to be lazy and pass it onto your elected rep to point the gun?

Charity operates on donations. Go find somebody to donate. I cant do it all for you.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

Yours.

It is not viable for me or most people to start or certainly fund our on charity.

 

[nixium]

Look, the current health system is *anything* but a free market.

First, lets bring it back to what it's supposed to be, before proposing UHC as the solution.

Someone (Vic) I think posted a damn good article on the problems with the current health system and how to fix it - unfortunately, I don't have the link. I'll have to dig it up.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

Your time obviously, dont you have a passion for this or are you going to be lazy and pass it onto your elected rep to point the gun?

Charity operates on donations. Go find somebody to donate. I cant do it all for you.

I volunteer fifteen hours a week at an NPO. I know that I do not have the time, money or connections to start my own healthcare charity, and if I did, it would not cover everyone.

Stop being silly.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: n yusef
I volunteer fifteen hours a week at an NPO. I know that I do not have the time, energy or connections to start my own healthcare charity, and if I did, it would not cover everyone.

Stop being silly.

Take those 15 hours and use them for your own charity. This isnt complicated.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

Yours.

It is not viable for me or most people to start or certainly fund our own charity.

Yet you judge others.

Originally posted by: n yusef
It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

You're a fine piece of work. There's a word for people who judge others on standards they themselves won't meet. People like you are why I no longer identify with liberals, and my first presidential vote was for Dukakis!

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Atheus

Which nobody would donate to because they're selfish. Great idea I'm sure that will solve everything.

And forced charity at the gun of govt will?

Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head - that's an American passtime. If you don't want to pay your taxes you're free to piss off somewhere else with all the other selfish assholes.

How is that great society of LBJ doing anyways?

LBJ?

That said Chairties in this country dont seem to have a problem gathering wealth. Our charities export more foreign humanitarian aid than our govt by multiples.

How is this a good thing?

I am sure if you spent as much time loading the gun of govt to point at your fellow citizen for your charity and instead formed your own with a stated mission to provide health care insurance to people who cant afford it, it would do fine.

That wasn't even a coherant sentance but I'll try to reply as if it was. Clearly you'd rather have charities than taxes so you could choose not to pay - there's no room for people who think like that in a civilized society.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hence the reason I said start a charity.

With whose money? With whose time?

Yours.

It is not viable for me or most people to start or certainly fund our own charity.

Yet you judge others.

Originally posted by: n yusef
It's a shame that selfishness is an American virtue.

You're a fine piece of work. There's a word for people who judge others on standards they themselves won't meet. People like you are why I no longer identify with liberals, and my first presidential vote was for Dukakis!

Running a charity and paying taxes are very different concepts. How could I, a man with a degree in Sociology and no connections in healthcare run a healthcare charity? I can donate to one, but I am not qualified to run one. I do volunteer my time and money to various causes.

Healthcare, however, is best served by a single payer system.

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Atheus

Which nobody would donate to because they're selfish. Great idea I'm sure that will solve everything.

And forced charity at the gun of govt will?

Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head - that's an American passtime. If you don't want to pay your taxes you're free to piss off somewhere else with all the other selfish assholes.

How is that great society of LBJ doing anyways?

LBJ?

That said Chairties in this country dont seem to have a problem gathering wealth. Our charities export more foreign humanitarian aid than our govt by multiples.

How is this a good thing?

I am sure if you spent as much time loading the gun of govt to point at your fellow citizen for your charity and instead formed your own with a stated mission to provide health care insurance to people who cant afford it, it would do fine.

That wasn't even a coherant sentance but I'll try to reply as if it was. Clearly you'd rather have charities than taxes so you could choose not to pay - there's no room for people who think like that in a civilized society.

glad we have y'all to dictate what a 'civilized society' is to the rest of us...

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef
I volunteer fifteen hours a week at an NPO. I know that I do not have the time, energy or connections to start my own healthcare charity, and if I did, it would not cover everyone.

Stop being silly.

Take those 15 hours and use them for your own charity. This isnt complicated.

I am not experienced in the healthcare field, nor do I know people who are. I doubt I could accomplish anything with fifteen hours of time and the budget that I could afford.

Do you see why we are better served by well-funded professionals than me?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Atheus
Anyone saying they don't support that as a concept is surely inhuman.

Way to frame a debate.

"Do you agree with me? If you say no you're evil."

Typical shill.

You guys started it.

"Either yer with us or yer against us!"
"If you don't support President Bush, you support the terrrrists!"
"If you don't support the War in Iraq, then you should move to Iraq because you love Saddam!"

Oh good, another shill.

I didn't start anything. I'm not a Republican. I don't vote for Republicans. But anybody who doesn't goosestep alongside you must be a Republican, eh?

 

[jpeyton]

The GOP is screwed; health care bill by July.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Running a charity and paying taxes are very different concepts. How could I, a man with a degree in Sociology and no connections in healthcare run a healthcare charity? I can donate to one, but I am not qualified to run one. I do volunteer my time and money to various causes.

Healthcare, however, is best served by a single payer system.

It's funny we both have the same near-worthless degree.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The GOP is screwed; health care bill by July.

We'll see if it passes. I'm thinking this will be 93-94 all over again.

 

[Xellos2099]

Call me inhuman if you want to, but UHC is simply another tools of share of wealth stated by Obama. It basically made the higher income family forking out more money to cover for the people who made no income or are illegal immigrants. It is no different than robbing the riches at gun point beside the government don't even need a gun to rob you. Is it a right thing to do? No. Is it an ethically thing to do? No. Does it benefit the illegal immigrant? Yes. It is just like when Obama tell Chrysler's secure credit to FU and give priority to his union gang and essentially created his very own political machine, just like Daley does in Chicago.