Do you support having limitations in a balanced budget amendment?

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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I think that there should be no limitations in a balanced budget, not even for war. Here's why:
It would be a deterrent to war.
It would be a deterrent to wasteful war spending.
If there was an exception for declared wars, then they'd just declare more wars.
Wars can be funded completely by taxation (no inflation, no borrowing) if they're done efficiently and without waste. For example, Madison didn't manage the war of 1812 right (American troops were paid way more than British troops). Polk wanted to pay the volunteers too much, and they were using far too expensive weaponry considering what they were up against. I don't know much about the SpanAm War, but I'm sure that McKinley paid the volunteers too much. World War I was expensive because Wilson raised marginal taxes rates too high, spent too much on other things, there was high inflation, the banksters offered to finance it and Wilson took their offer. And of course, WWII costed too much as FDR was the father of the Military Industrial Complex. He paid the soldiers way too much and he also raised the marginal rates through the roof, so few people paid income tax.

Lincoln had to keep on borrowing excessively for the Counter-Revolution because he paid the troops too much (he was reelected largely because he gave the soldiers so many perks), because he kept on inflating, and because he didn't tax enough (if he had taxed 15% of income after the first $500 and hadn't inflated, then he would've been able to pay for it without borrowing, as the 2% after first 2k only paid for 21% of the war) Also, the fact that the Union was probably using unnecessarily expensive weapons was why he had to borrow excessively. He also could've sold confiscated property rather than waste it. Jackson's fiscal management of Indian Removal was responsible (most presidents would've done it fiscally irresponsibly), and Jefferson was able to fight the barbary pirates while having a surplus.

The only possible limitation I'd support is 2/3 of both houses to lift the balanced budget requirement, but it would have to be for each individual piece of legislation. The only reason I'd support that is because it takes 2/3 of both Houses to repeal an amendment, and it's a lesser evil to have an unbalanced budget for just a piece of a legislation at one time than to have the whole amendment repealed.

Some think we always need to borrow for war expenditures, but we don't.

Note that I don't support any of the wars I mentioned nor do I support indian removal, but I was just trying to get my point across.
 

Vette73

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MovingTarget

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Jun 22, 2003
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Sometimes running a deficit is a good thing. Perpetual deficits are not. Any balanced budget amendment would have to be carefully worded so as to reflect this reality. Besides, having the government in debt has its upside, as evidenced by Hamilton himself.
 

Anarchist420

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Sometimes running a deficit is a good thing. Perpetual deficits are not. Any balanced budget amendment would have to be carefully worded so as to reflect this reality. Besides, having the government in debt has its upside, as evidenced by Hamilton himself.
Having the government in debt is never a good thing, because that just means the government got more power from borrowing. Plus, the tax payers have to pay interest on the Federal debt, so it's more expensive to borrow than it is to pay as you go.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Having the government in debt is never a good thing, because that just means the government got more power from borrowing. Plus, the tax payers have to pay interest on the Federal debt, so it's more expensive to borrow than it is to pay as you go.

There's a difference between buying something on credit and being a fucking moron about it. In the past our governement ran deficits for necessary expendatures but they were relatively smart about it.

The 'fucking moron' tag would apply to the spending we've been doing for the last 10 years. We'll never pay this shit off without printing money.
 

sactoking

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Sep 24, 2007
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Having the government in debt is never a good thing, because that just means the government got more power from borrowing. Plus, the tax payers have to pay interest on the Federal debt, so it's more expensive to borrow than it is to pay as you go.

Never? Really? If your country is invaded by a country intent on implementing their "final solution" it's not ok to borrow a few billion to ensure your survival?
 

MovingTarget

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Jun 22, 2003
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Never? Really? If your country is invaded by a country intent on implementing their "final solution" it's not ok to borrow a few billion to ensure your survival?

If you are going to point out somebody's obviously incorrect statement, please do not invoke Godwin's law.

/damnit.

Anarchist420, have you ever read anything by Hamilton? Only an idiot would speak in those absolute terms about debt. Some debt is good, but not all debt.
 

cubby1223

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May 24, 2004
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If you are going to point out somebody's obviously incorrect statement, please do not invoke Godwin's law.

/damnit.

Anarchist420, have you ever read anything by Hamilton? Only an idiot would speak in those absolute terms about debt. Some debt is good, but not all debt.

Hey! If we don't force him to think through his idiocy, he will never learn, and will continue creating threads.
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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If you are going to point out somebody's obviously incorrect statement, please do not invoke Godwin's law.

/damnit.

Anarchist420, have you ever read anything by Hamilton? Only an idiot would speak in those absolute terms about debt. Some debt is good, but not all debt.
I've never read anything by Hamilton because he was the one who got us into this mess. Yes, I know that some say he wouldn't be for borrowing as much as the country does today, but I don't believe that.

After all, Jefferson didn't support having a Federal debt:)
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
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I've never read anything by Hamilton because he was the one who got us into this mess. Yes, I know that some say he wouldn't be for borrowing as much as the country does today, but I don't believe that.

After all, Jefferson didn't support having a Federal debt:)

If you haven't read anything by him, you certainly do not "know" that his policies got us into this mess. Please read both Hamilton and Jefferson's writings. It might enlighten you.
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
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I think a balanced budget amendment with a requirement of 2/3 in both houses to run a deficit is a great idea. If the deficit spending is that vital getting 2/3 shouldn't be that big of a deal.
 

fskimospy

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Mar 10, 2006
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In and Out, all the way. I spent 20 years on the east coast and 10 years on the west coast. In and out, all the way.