Do you still think privatizing Soc Security is a good idea?

[Moonbeam]

PS, Maybe I can get it bronzed.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: PSYWVic

Originally posted by: Ornery
Many Federal workers have wonderful retirement accounts and pay zip into SS. PSYWVic & SuperTool, care to explain to me why the rest of us shouldn't have the same option?

Sounds like a great idea, where can I sign up? Too bad such a thing will never exist for us normal folks (i.e. those of us not feeding at the trough) until SS doesn't exist anymore. Until then, privatization is just another scam. So please DO NOT put words in my mouth or put meanings into my posts opposite of my stated opinion, thank you very much.

Privatization is only a first step. Only the GOP is willing to take that step. Once the ball is rolling in that direction we can proceed to eliminate SS as we know it.

Public pension plans are a viable outline of how a replacement could work. The Democrats are hell bent on keeping their failed system in place. Our only hope of getting rid of it is by following a GOP lead course. Social Security privatization is doable in itself, and could easily lead to far better plans with simple tweaking. As it is, under the current privatization plan, funds could ONLY be directed to government-approved and regulated investment management companies and only 10% of the account would be at risk anyway. It's only a start and it's the ONLY plan being proposed in opposition to our current lame system.

Everyone, except some our Democrat friends, agree it's time for a change. Either we go with the GOP's privatization plan, or stay mired in the current failing system. Whose side are you on?

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Public pension plans pay nothing into Social Security. No reason why we shouldn't have comparable choices. Privatization is chicken feed compared to what these double dippers can pull down. :frown:

Ornery,

I understand your desire to privatize SS but by commenting on Federal retirement and complaining that they are "double dippers" you in fact show a very high ignorance of what federal retirement is, how it's paid for and the benefits and costs to the participants of it.

For example, if you did know anything about it you would know that a civillian federal employee cannot double dip, in fact all the years of SS that they pay before they join the federal retirement program are blown away and they never see a dime from SS. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[glenn1]

And please try reading to the end of posts, please. I called for THE END of Social Security, as I have in the past. I also want my money back, but hey, as that money doesn't actually exist except on paper in SS's pyramid scheme and paying it all out would bankrupt the government and destroy the economy, I'd honestly be satisfied if it all just disappeared and I never had to pay into it anymore.

I agree with you. I favor the abolition of it as well. You'll see where i stated so a bit further up in the thread....

Quote from glenn1:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My first vote would go to abolishing SS....
my second vote goes to privatization....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bingo.

 

[Ornery]

charrison mentioned "federal employees do not pay into social security", which I assumed to be correct. I based that belief on what I KNOW about State and local public pension plans, which pay NOTHING into SS. Question still stands, if it's good enough for them, why not the rest of us?

The other question about whether SS should be phased out also still stands. Why support Democrats and their support of a failing system? The GOP has the balls to address this issue AND suggest an alternative. Why perpetuate the problem by siding with the Dems?

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Ornery
charrison mentioned "federal employees do not pay into social security", which I assumed to be correct. I based that belief on what I KNOW about State and local public pension plans, which pay NOTHING into SS. Question still stands, if it's good enough for them, why not the rest of us?

The other question about whether SS should be phased out also still stands. Why support Democrats and their support of a failing system? The GOP has the balls to address this issue AND suggest an alternative. Why perpetuate the problem by siding with the Dems?

The question is do you have any understanding how the Federal retirement program and SS program work? SS (not including medicare) is paid for not only by the employee through a payroll tax, but by an employer tax. The combined tax is 15% of gross, split 7% to employee and 7% to employer. In the case of the employer the SS employer charge would have to be paid by the Federal government. Federal employees don't pay SS and pay directly into the federal retirement program (saving a rather bullsh!t transacation of moving 7% of employee salary from federal budget to the SS trust). If I remember correctly the fed employees actually pay quite a bit more than the 7% the rest of us pay, AND the system is fully self supported. Get that? The system is paid for completely by contributions made by the employees.

So there you have the real reason Fed employees don't pay SS, it SAVES taxpayer money. If you think for a minute the Fed's would let even federal employees get away with paying less into the system you are smoking some good crack.

 

[vi edit]

If I remember correctly the fed employees actually pay quite a bit more than the 7% the rest of us pay, AND the system is fully self supported. Get that? The system is paid for completely by contributions made by the employees.

The municipal pension that my father is a member of is LARGELY funded by realestate aquisitions and rental properties throughout the Greater Chicago area and various other "hot spots" in Illinois. The IMRF has their fingers in many, many things.

[edit] They bring in a couple million a year just in parking ramp fees from parking ramps they own in prime downtown Chicago locations.

 

[Ornery]

I don't give a flyin' fvck about the GD Federal retirement program. charrison must have confused that with the public pension plans and I didn't check to see if it was any different. The point is, and this is ON TOPIC, the public pension plans do NOT pay a nickel into SS, so we should have that option too! It's a system that works fine without going down the tubes like SS seems to be. Apparently, our Fed's DO let state and local employees get away with paying NOTHING into the system! :disgust:

 

[Moonbeam]

Yup if you work for the government it's sort of like serving in the military. You do it for love of country, for a modicum of security, and for a relatively decent pension because compared to what you can earn in the private sector, you don't earn crap.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup if you work for the government it's sort of like serving in the military. You do it for love of country, for a modicum of security, and for a relatively decent pension because compared to what you can earn in the private sector, you don't earn crap.

Outside of the military, that's pretty much the opposite of what I've experienced. You do it for the love of yourself, with more or less ultimate security, fairly decent wages, and unbeatable benefits.

 

[Ornery]

Whoa, I consider teaching to be working for the government, and they do pretty well, around here anyway. Our Ohio teachers have their own retirement fund too. Nothing goes into SS from them. I'm tired of complaining about it. I'm going to see if I can't get into our city or county government. I told that to the woman from the unemployment bureau yesterday. She just said, "Good luck!" I'll pull whatever strings I can and take whatever they got. Just get my foot in the door, get some health insurance coverage and wait for a better position to open up. Yup, I might even end up in some kind of Union! Hah!

 

[Moonbeam]

Teachers make dog meat and are correspondingly treated as such by society at large in comparison to the training demanded. Teachers can hardly be retained in the field. There has to be a really big love for it to overcome the financial loss.

-----------------
Quote:

Outside of the military, that's pretty much the opposite of what I've experienced. You do it for the love of yourself, with more or less ultimate security, fairly decent wages, and unbeatable benefits.
--------------------

I suppose it could be relative. Somebody cleaning bathrooms for a cleanng service would see this differently than the person who owned the service. Where I am anybody young with a GOV job pretty much commuts 2 hours each way.