Are you kidding? We have Republicans saying that the poor should give up their cell phones and cable TV for these kinds of plans. $10k WILL bankrupt someone like that, making the plan worthless and a waste of money. And if $10k won't bankrupt you, you probably have a job with benefits already.
Are you kidding? We have Republicans saying that the poor should give up their cell phones and cable TV for these kinds of plans. $10k WILL bankrupt someone like that, making the plan worthless and a waste of money. And if $10k won't bankrupt you, you probably have a job with benefits already.
I like my employer-provided health insurance, so no thanks to your idea there. If you leave / lose your job without another lined up, buy an individual policy. I've done it before and it's not that bad.
Seriously, my COBRA cost on just me was $650-700 a month when my insurance through the state ran out. I'm a young male too. 0.o
Thankfully I have some insurance now, even though I don't use it much.
I know many families who spend entire paychecks for coverage.
Those 5k deductible plans are fine, IF YOU ARE NEVER SICK. Some of you don't realize that if you have a condition that requires a hospital visit once or twice a month and a doc visit once a month that you'd be bankrupt before the first year was out. So people are forced to make the system write it off, which is worse in the long run that a government health care program.
Most uninsured are not uninsured by choice. Those "plans" you mention are complete WASTES OF MONEY and most have insane co-pay's, high deductibles, and don't even cover prescription meds. One from AETNA covers emergency room visits "up to $1000", have you ever got out of an ER for less than a $1000? No, so you get a huge bill still.
Do you believe the consumer has even 1% of the knowledge to dispute what the doctor says? If the doctor were to say "You need this surgery and it costs $10k.", do you think it would change people's minds?
Consumers don't have enough knowledge to make these kinds of decisions. The free market approach you like depends on the consumer being a lot more knowledgeable. Furthermore, much of the data needed to make a decision comes in the form of expensive tests that require still more knowledge and expertise to generate.
In theory, I guess you could go to three or four different doctors and have them all run their tests like you could take your car to different mechanics, but that would be even more expensive.
For the vast majority of people, Lasiks is a vanity surgery. Glasses or contacts will do the job cheaper. That's why its not covered by most insurance. Providers also have to compete because Lasiks is never required and never time dependent, unlike so many other medical procedures and treatments.
You're comparing something needed vs. something wanted. A pure free market approach works pretty well for the latter but leads to exploitation in the former.
Yet Big Insurance makes billions in profits and their CEOs make 7 or 8 figures. That's a big part of the problem. Good health care costs money but the for-profit middle men just add insult to injury.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,768
- 2,544
- 126
I have really grave doubts on the Kaiser Permanente figures being bandied about above. I pay roughly $800 per month for my family's plan (covers 3 and all in excellent health), and it is pretty close to a diaster-only plan, having a $5000 co-pay. And that's the cheapest coverage I could find from a reputable company. (Warning-there is a lot of bogus insurance policies being sold that leave you high and dry in the event of a big loss).
Personally I think 99.9% of those posters claiming they want freedom to choose their own health plans have never bought private health insurance on their own (it's an arduous nightmare, even with a good health record) and certainly don't pay for it. If we don't get some form of universal health care this time around, I think the only rational solution is to completely eliminate the tax rules allowing employers to deduct health insurance as a business expense. Make it fully taxable, let everyone actually feel the expense of it, and the blowhards will be singing a different tune very shortly.
Personally I think 99.9% of those posters claiming they want freedom to choose their own health plans have never bought private health insurance on their own (it's an arduous nightmare, even with a good health record) and certainly don't pay for it. If we don't get some form of universal health care this time around, I think the only rational solution is to completely eliminate the tax rules allowing employers to deduct health insurance as a business expense. Make it fully taxable, let everyone actually feel the expense of it, and the blowhards will be singing a different tune very shortly.
That's because the figures you were given are lies, and the liars perpetrating them are sociopathic stooges. I hope none of them every become permanently disabled. Then we'll see how much they like their private insurance.
Now wait a minute. While that's often true, it's not always true. When I was working full time my monthly premiums were 25% of my gross pay (for truly terrible coverage). When I got cut to part time my premiums were 75% of my gross pay. Tell me how a person can survive losing 75% of their gross pay to health insurance.
That's not uncommon at all. Very few people in America get lucky enough to get in on good coverage at reasonable prices. National average annual premium costs are about $10,000 for a family. Remember, that's average, so there are a LOT of people way higher.
I mean - it was 5 years ago in Louisiana, but I had an individual PPO policy for my family, and my duaghter that ran me $450 a month. there were co-pays and coinsurance, but it was feasible. If I had to pay $800, I wouldn't have been able to do it - especially not with a $5k deductible. Do you have any references for that national average? I'd like to read up some more on it.
There have been several in the last couple years, but as usual with contradictory data. I figure the truth is likely somewhere between the two.
Shows 10k average
Shows 6k average
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
- 0
- 0
Because self reliance is really important to me and needs to be for every American. And it just seems people are severely misinformed when it comes to health insurance. COBRA is expensive as crap because you are used to a really, really good employer group health insurance plan with super cheap 10-15 dollar co-pays for drugs, services, etc.
You can find a similar group plan by going to a health insurance broker for much cheaper to find a plan that meets your needs, just like you do every other kind of insurance. I've provided my own health insurance many times in my life as an independent consultant. The range of covered services from employer group plans are astronomical and the prices are cheap, you don't need every single bit of that coverage depending on your situation which is why you should spend much more time picking your health insurance than clicking a box.
We've conditioned people to this model. What we really need to do is get back to the standard 80/20 plans. There are so many incentives these days that if only people took their own health and health insurance into their own hands and just simply took responsibility in it we'd (people) be in much better shape. But that's not going to happen.
How'd your health insurance come out to 2k a month... me and my family were like $250 a month for good PPO.
I can't help but think that a lot of people just want someone else to pay for their shit... that is what a lot of this will amount to.... 10% of population, along with businesses, paying for 90% of peoples healthcare too.
Well I want to do some things for myself thank you.
I am grateful to the wealthy/businesses who tax dollars pay for kids' schools, paved roads, etc.
But I'd like to try to carry my own weight as much as possible.
Edit:..
If you don't have health insurance but you have expensive cell phone, or a car that costs more than say a Hyundai Elantra, or a $1000 a year clothing bill, a 2000 USD computer rig, abig ole expensive TV,or eat out often, etc... you priorities are in the wrong place and that's the problem. It is not that you can't afford insurance it is that you don't want to.
If you manage your budget to a T and are frugal then I agree that you should get some help. And in a lot of cases, there is government help if you look for it (At least for your kids).
senseamp
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
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Why do conservatives continue to spread misinformation that everyone can afford health insurance, and if they don't it's because they don't want to. It's ranging from people who are completely in denial or clueless to people who are willfully misleading, but it keeps popping up as an argument. Just because you can get $250/month for good PPO from your employer for your family, does not mean it's $250/month for everyone to obtain it in private insurance market.
The difference between other types of insurances are that if you underestimate your risk, you only lose money. With health insurance, you may very well lose your life, or be so indebted, you'll wish you were dead.
Just a quick google showed that over half of Americans are just one medical emergency away from being bankrupt, despite having coverage. 75% of people who declared themselves bankrupt had health insurance.
http://www.delawareliberal.net...-away-from-bankruptcy/
The quote of interest:
Simply put, the current system does not work. I'd rather have a working health system like that of Canada or Germany than what we currently have. On top of that, they pay less, per GDP, per capita, per every measurement you can think of, and are healthier for it. We need to completely overhaul our medical system because it flat out doesn't work. And don't give me that crap about how UHC in other countries leads to enormous wait times and that garbage. If you need the care, then you will get the treatment, it's as simple as that. Sure, you might have to wait a while for your rhinoplasty or boob jobs, but it's a lot better than our system where you can get on-demand boob jobs but people use the emergency room as a doctor's office.
As time goes on and older Americans that remember what freedom is all about grow less and less in number generation after generation and younger people who are more and more used to taking it up the ass replace them, the lives of average people will decline as they are milked by those who have. Our system is based on competition which is hate and greed and generation by generation we will sink to the animal stage where all that matters is me. Little by little all the me me me types will be picked off and only I will remain. Everything will be mine.
SO!!!! That's what bankruptcy is for. There are already laws protecting you. This is yet again why people are too stupid to take care of themselves and look to gubment to take care of them.
People just can't take care of themselves anymore and that is a very, very sad thing.
If anything your stats prove that bankruptcy protection is working.
Yup, sad, but at least you and me aren't those kind of worthless scum. We are people of accomplishment and substance and deserve a pat on the back. I just can't imagine where all the scum on the planet came from.
So, you're saying that if you get a MRSA infection because you got a splinter on your friend's deck, you had it coming because you didn't take care of yourself?
Both consumers and doctors act differently when they know finances are limited. IF both parties know someone else is footing the bill, neither will hesitate to run a test, just to be sure.
BUt this is not just about tests, it is about simple things like office visits and meds as well.
But at you agree the free market works and the free market has been removed from health care for the most part. Part of the fix needs for the health care problem will be letting the free market back in. OUR regulations on healthcare have really distorted the health care market.
look at what safeway has done to control cost. Personal responsibility and market forces do work.
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