Do you oppose placing restrictions on what can be purchased with SNAP benefits?

[werepossum]

Silly, they eat a couple of steaks and lobsters and sell the rest.

Some might argue that is enterprising but that is on taxpayer money.

Could be. Seems to me that people on WIC and SNAP buy tons of very expensive food. I assume this is because unless the cashier tells the person ahead of me that they cannot purchase such-and-such with their WIC or SNAP card, I wouldn't think to notice which card they are using (both debit and credit cards are ubiquitous) and that people buying $400 worth of ribeye steaks are more likely to also have something verboten than someone buying $100 worth of staples. That way I don't believe that most such recipients are cheaters and my blood pressure doesn't go up.

 

[Blanky]

The obvious thing is money is fungible. The problem is if you're spending money on crap you shouldn't be allowed to have this stuff. Limiting it to certain purchases is pointless.

 

[-slash-]

Fuck that. They need to get rid of the whole SNAP / food stamp bullshit entirely. No money? Well, I guess you need to get the fuck off your ass and get a job like anyone not being a piece of shit would do.

I'll humor the question, though: what they need to do is make packages with food in it for these lazy fucks that refuse to get a job, and you get what is in it -- and they should all have the same things in it. They should base it off number of people and age. To get anything else, there needs to be a valid medical condition that is not the result of your own poor life decisions (ie: "i'm fat as fuck because i'm a fucking pig, so I qualify for more food)

This guarantees the following: they will get enough food to sustain life. Beyond that, they can fuck themselves.

This x1000. It's sad when people dont want to regulate this garbage. It's not the recipients money, it's tax payer money. As a tax payer I want it used as it was intended, not abused. If I dont have a voice in how and what its used on, I want to opt out. I dont work to support some lazy asshat whos dealing drugs on the side to make real money while living off government bennies.

It's not hard to get a job and support yourself. Many have jobs, but spend their earnings poorly or want to live above their means. They hop on SNAP so they can buy expensive food with it, then get the cheap essentials, beer, and smokes with their own money. I wish I got supplemental income to buy lobster.

 

[Rhonda the Sly]

Where does the homeless person cook and store this stuff?

Instead of using EBT to feed the homeless you should depend on charities that serve hot meals. I could see giving homeless people a small stipend for food for things like when job interviews don't align with the charities schedule but, honestly speaking, they don't have a good reason to be on EBT.

 

[Spungo]

This x1000. It's sad when people dont want to regulate this garbage. It's not the recipients money, it's tax payer money. As a tax payer I want it used as it was intended, not abused.

Bah, you're looking at this from the responsible taxpayer model. As a proud member of the communist party, I think you should look at this from a communist perspective. Instead of trying to reduce waste, you should petition to increase government waste and then invest in public companies that profit from said government waste.

Walmart stock
To make it even better, are you aware that you can own shares of Walmart in your IRA? That means you'll get a tax refund and you get to skim some of the taxes everyone else pays. Forward Soviet!

 

[-slash-]

Bah, you're looking at this from the responsible taxpayer model. As a proud member of the communist party, I think you should look at this from a communist perspective. Instead of trying to reduce waste, you should petition to increase government waste and then invest in public companies that profit from said government waste.

Walmart stock
To make it even better, are you aware that you can own shares of Walmart in your IRA? That means you'll get a tax refund and you get to skim some of the taxes everyone else pays. Forward Soviet!

Sorry, I have yet to assimilate into the new communistic regime.🙁

 

[Spungo]

Sorry, I have yet to assimilate into the new communistic regime.🙁

Failure to embrace communism is one of the biggest problems we face in America. I was on facebook a few days ago and one of my "friends" wrote that she will never participate in public ownership of the economy. She seemed to be proud of this for some reason. I can't wrap my head around it. I think owning the means of production is an important step in maintaining a strong middle class.

It might be a Jewish thing. We have a long tradition of saving and investing.

 

[madoka]

This x1000. It's sad when people dont want to regulate this garbage. It's not the recipients money, it's tax payer money. As a tax payer I want it used as it was intended, not abused. If I dont have a voice in how and what its used on, I want to opt out. I dont work to support some lazy asshat whos dealing drugs on the side to make real money while living off government bennies.

What's amazing to me is that you can use EBT cards in liquor stores, casinos, cruise ships, strip clubs, tattoo parlors, nail salons, jewelry stores, movie theaters, etc.

It's like the government just doesn't give a crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

 

[madoka]

And the delicious part of that is that valuing personal responsibility is the height of personal irresponsibility of the very same kind. It is a delusional ego state the purpose of which is to elevate your self value in your own eye by lowering the value of people you call irresponsible, a mental illness you have that is beyond your ability to prevent, making you completely not responsible for it.

What you're saying it batshit insane.

Here's Adam Corolla's recent take on personal responsibility and government benefits. I agree with what he says and how society has changed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6ica0t95Q&feature=youtu.be

 

[Joepublic2]

I fully support restrictions, but they should be BMI based. Nothing wrong with enjoying the occasional bowl of ice cream or bowl of potato chips if you're otherwise healthy. If you're overweight or obese, however, you should have to use a special benefits package/card that only lets the recipient buy healthy foods until they're no longer fat-asses. Because fat people are disgusting and we should be do everything we can do to stop the spread of "the ugliest disease".

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Where does the homeless person cook and store this stuff?

In the Food Banks, which I volunteer at, they call this type of food "meal in a can" and many store bought items items have pop tops.

Loaf of bread, cold cuts = sandwich
Loaf of bread, canned tuna = sandwich
Canned fruit = no cooking required
Beef stew in a can, beans in a can = no cooking required

Restricting people from buying bags of chips, cookies, Hot Pockets, or deli sandwiches does not mean folks can not feed themselves. Buying a hot fast food meal should be restrcited from EBT.

Also, most homeless eat at soup kitchen type places for many of there meals - usually 1x per day.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

IF the person buys $120 worth of steak and seafood instead of smarter stuff and then its on them to do without the rest of the month.

Actually, they supplement their food stamp purchases by going to the local food bank and getting a box off food once per week. For those enterprising individuals they will go to multiple food banks each week and get multiple boxes.

Those food banks get taxpayer dollars as well as donations.

If you are an enterprising Food Bank box getter, you sell your food.

http://missionlocal.org/2011/11/seniors-bag-eats-from-food-banks-to-sell-later/

According to several food pantries, elderly recipients of free food disbursements are turning around and selling the donations at various locations throughout the city. Those who work in the business of handing out food say that the practice is a sign of how bad the economy has gotten for seniors trying to survive in the city. Others agree, but add that at some food pantries the desperation has intensified the competition for food.

A woman selling food near UN Plaza acknowledged that she goes all over the city to pick up food at the pantries. She then sells the items to help make ends meet.

“We don’t get enough money for rent or for daily use,” said one woman who was selling food donations she had picked up earlier. The elderly woman spoke through an interpreter and asked to remain anonymous.

 

[Belegost]

Wow, you're really not very informed. And tried playing a card that is overplayed.

I said what I did, and linked the video I did because it is true. There are tons out there. Since tax payers money pays for it, we should have a say. There should be better checks and balances to ensure shenanigans dont happen as much. I came across that video a while ago, and it is very true in my experience.

I have a family member who sells theirs for less than the dollar amount, because she wants cash. At a BBQ last year, her and a few others were having a good time joking about what they do with their EBT and how much they get, where they spend it on, etc. Pissed me off and I can't be around them. Because they're abusing the system, and I am paying for it.

It's not about blacks, this happens with every race, creed, color, gender, etc all over the world. Every time there is a system in place, people will abuse it. While deployed to Italy, we stayed on a Navy base. If you were not permanent personnel you couldn't buy liquor because you had to have an liquor chit, signed off by your command. So the ones who were actually stationed there sold it to our guys because we couldnt get it, Marines like to drink, and they sold them for more than the dollar amount. They abused the system. Likewise with gas coupons, you had to be permanent personnel, have a registered car, and a license to get gas coupons. They were sold at $1 per liter, out in town it was over 3 Euro per liter, obviously better. So they would sell them to locals somewhere in between what they paid for them, and what it was out in town. Abusing the system.

While getting gas yesterday there was a machine to pay with debt/cc card by the register, but also one separate just for EBT. That's ridiculous. There should be better checks to assure that people don't abuse it as much. I think it will always happen because people always find away around security for the most part. Look at warez and games, how long has this been going on? Forever. And still happens even with the newest games. Same with music.

I have no problems helping people who really need it, and use the system as it is intended. The fact is there is, and always will be people who abuse it. I think it is near impossible to help who need it, and stop who abuse it.

It took me three times of reading this before it dawned on my that you must believe "black market" is discussing something to do with "black people."

A black market is an illicit trade market in which goods and currency are traded off the books, generally due to some part of the trading being not legally compliant: ie the cocaine trade, the product is illegal to trade, or the SNAP food trade, SNAP benefits are to be used by recipients for nutritional purposes.

The further description you and others in this thread give is clear black (or at least grey) market activity. That's a natural result of subsidizing a very limited set of products - people who want/need other non-subsidized products will take advantage of the subsidy to provide the product to the black market in exchange for hard currency or the more desired items.

The further the subsidy is restricted, the more prevalent this behavior will become, because the more restricted set of items provides less utility. Further, the efficiency of the transaction on the black market will fall, as there will be reduced demand for more limited items. If SNAP benefits were reduced to only cover rice and beans, then people would trade the rice and beans for cash, they would simply get a lot less back.

 

[skull]

So poor people not only make poor decisions but are also lazy.

If you really feel this is an issue with haves and have nots, as you say, then why isn't this thread discussing taxing junk food items, similar to tobacco and alcohol, and using the proceeds to fund programs to help curb obesity?

But it's of course far more fun to dictate how other people how to live.

Or maybe beggars can't be choosers. If your too stupid or lazy to work to feed yourself you get what we give you. If your disabled thats ones thing but lazy and stupid shouldn't pay.

Most the people on social benefits abuse the system. They need incentive to get their ass off the couch and to work. Any able bodied person that can't feed themselves should have to wait in line for rice and beans. I guarantee if we did that suddenly only 10% of the people that can't feed themselves, really can't feed themselves.

 

[Spungo]

The further the subsidy is restricted, the more prevalent this behavior will become, because the more restricted set of items provides less utility. Further, the efficiency of the transaction on the black market will fall, as there will be reduced demand for more limited items. If SNAP benefits were reduced to only cover rice and beans, then people would trade the rice and beans for cash, they would simply get a lot less back.

Isn't that a good thing? If idiots want to trade an entire month of EBT rice money for 1 hit of coke, that's their problem. They're more than welcome to starve to death.

I think it would make an interesting social experiment to make people choose between a greater value with limited selection or a lesser value with greater selection. You can either get a $200 card that can buy anything uncooked, or you can get a $100 card that has no limitations.

My guess is that most poor people would pick the $100 card. This goes back to the concept of delayed gratification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

In these studies, a child was offered a choice between one small reward provided immediately or two small rewards if they waited for a short period, approximately 15 minutes, during which the tester left the room and then returned. (The reward was sometimes a marshmallow, but often a cookie or a pretzel.) In follow-up studies, the researchers found that children who were able to wait longer for the preferred rewards tended to have better life outcomes, as measured by SAT scores,[2] educational attainment,[3] body mass index (BMI),[4] and other life measures.[5]

 

[-slash-]

What's amazing to me is that you can use EBT cards in liquor stores, casinos, cruise ships, strip clubs, tattoo parlors, nail salons, jewelry stores, movie theaters, etc.

It's like the government just doesn't give a crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

They dont, it's not their money. It's their minions money. When has the recent government ever been good at spending our tax dollars?

I fully support restrictions, but they should be BMI based. Nothing wrong with enjoying the occasional bowl of ice cream or bowl of potato chips if you're otherwise healthy. If you're overweight or obese, however, you should have to use a special benefits package/card that only lets the recipient buy healthy foods until they're no longer fat-asses. Because fat people are disgusting and we should be do everything we can do to stop the spread of "the ugliest disease".

Luxury items, not on my dime. If you can afford a bag of Lays, you can afford to not be on food stamps. Their quality of life is not my concern. Food benefits should only be used to sustain life. If the quality of their life is poor then they should do something to change it besides waste my tax dollars.

Or maybe beggars can't be choosers. If your too stupid or lazy to work to feed yourself you get what we give you. If your disabled thats ones thing but lazy and stupid shouldn't pay.

Most the people on social benefits abuse the system. They need incentive to get their ass off the couch and to work. Any able bodied person that can't feed themselves should have to wait in line for rice and beans. I guarantee if we did that suddenly only 10% of the people that can't feed themselves, really can't feed themselves.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Darwin333]

Why do they restrict hot meals?

I have no problem with restrictions on things like alcohol and tobacco, but I can't see restricting any food items.

If they didn't you would have McDonald's successfully lobbying to allow SNAP/Food stamps be used to buy big macs and french fries.

The biggest problem is from a calorie standpoint the unhealthy food is by far the cheapest while also being the easiest and quickest.

 

[werepossum]

What's amazing to me is that you can use EBT cards in liquor stores, casinos, cruise ships, strip clubs, tattoo parlors, nail salons, jewelry stores, movie theaters, etc.

It's like the government just doesn't give a crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

Hey, best way to buy votes is with what the voters want, not what they need.

It took me three times of reading this before it dawned on my that you must believe "black market" is discussing something to do with "black people."

A black market is an illicit trade market in which goods and currency are traded off the books, generally due to some part of the trading being not legally compliant: ie the cocaine trade, the product is illegal to trade, or the SNAP food trade, SNAP benefits are to be used by recipients for nutritional purposes.

The further description you and others in this thread give is clear black (or at least grey) market activity. That's a natural result of subsidizing a very limited set of products - people who want/need other non-subsidized products will take advantage of the subsidy to provide the product to the black market in exchange for hard currency or the more desired items.

The further the subsidy is restricted, the more prevalent this behavior will become, because the more restricted set of items provides less utility. Further, the efficiency of the transaction on the black market will fall, as there will be reduced demand for more limited items. If SNAP benefits were reduced to only cover rice and beans, then people would trade the rice and beans for cash, they would simply get a lot less back.

He specifically said it's not about blacks so you therefore conclude he thinks the black market means where black people shop? Are you secretly Eskimospy? lol

I actually agree with everything you posted here. I'm just suggesting that when Ackmed says "It's not about blacks", that is to head off the inevitable charges of racism when anyone questions any government giveaway. (Which were I black would REALLY piss me off.) I suggest you read his post again, since he quite cogently described the black market and some of its forcers as well as giving examples that are not about black people.

 

[werepossum]

They dont, it's not their money. It's their minions money. When has the recent government ever been good at spending our tax dollars?

Luxury items, not on my dime. If you can afford a bag of Lays, you can afford to not be on food stamps. Their quality of life is not my concern. Food benefits should only be used to sustain life. If the quality of their life is poor then they should do something to change it besides waste my tax dollars.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

A lot of these people will be on government handout programs their entire lives. Are we really so petty as to begrudge them a freakin' bag of potato chips on our dime?

 

[Spungo]

A lot of these people will be on government handout programs their entire lives. Are we really so petty as to begrudge them a freakin' bag of potato chips on our dime?

I suggest we eat the poor. They're statistically the fattest people in America, and their muscles would be very tender because they don't work very much.

Why do we have food stamps in the first place? Even Canada doesn't have food stamps. They thought free healthcare was a good idea, but free food crosses the line. I don't think they have anything equivalent to Section 8 housing subsidies or government housing projects that are black holes of crime.

 

[-slash-]

A lot of these people will be on government handout programs their entire lives. Are we really so petty as to begrudge them a freakin' bag of potato chips on our dime?

They should get off if they want anything other than basic sustenance. It's not my problem they didn't take any initiative in their lives to be a contributing member of society and support themselves. I understand people fall on hard times and that is what these benefits should be for, not supporting someone their entire life. The mentally ill, handicapped, and disabled are a different matter. I'm talking able bodied people who cannot apply themselves. The problem is we DO support people for their entire lives and it gives them no incentive to better themselves.

 

[Darwin333]

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8xwLWb0lLY

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8xwLWb0lLY

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-dont-some-grocery-stores-donate-food-to-poor-people-2014-10

Need to do a better job of education, transporting, packaging, storage and the like. The majority of food waste is from perishables that only last a few days before going bad - hard to get that off a store shelf and into a food bank. Takes days, not hours, and by that time it belongs in a dumpster and not on someones plate.

 

[Darwin333]

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-dont-some-grocery-stores-donate-food-to-poor-people-2014-10

Need to do a better job of education, transporting, packaging, storage and the like. The majority of food waste is from perishables that only last a few days before going bad - hard to get that off a store shelf and into a food bank. Takes days, not hours, and by that time it belongs in a dumpster and not on someones plate.

It's definitely possible though. I found the fruits and vegetables that are thrown away at the source to be most shocking. Surely there are volunteer organizations that would happily pick them up and deliver them to food banks. I knew we threw away a lot of food but a full 1/3 is crazy.

 

[werepossum]

They should get off if they want anything other than basic sustenance. It's not my problem they didn't take any initiative in their lives to be a contributing member of society and support themselves. I understand people fall on hard times and that is what these benefits should be for, not supporting someone their entire life. The mentally ill, handicapped, and disabled are a different matter. I'm talking able bodied people who cannot apply themselves. The problem is we DO support people for their entire lives and it gives them no incentive to better themselves.

Get off how, exactly? Take your average long term handout recipient - typically not very intelligent, probably attended a shit school and never really learned much or expended much effort, often with one or more convictions, usually with one or more children, no work ethic or work experience. Once upon a time in America, such a person had a real option: find a factory job and work your ass off and you'd prosper. Now those factories are in China or Vietnam or Mexico. Any job such a person can find is likely to remain near minimum wage no matter how long or how hard the person works. Even the really dirty jobs that can't be moved such as chicken processing plants, slaughterhouses and sewage system workers are generally gone to Mexicans or Central/South Americans or Eastern Europeans or Africans who have experienced true poverty and will work harder than any American and represent less threat of legal action to the owners, and with that many people eager to take them, those jobs aren't going to ever pay a lot more than minimum wage. Furniture factories locally that paid well over $20 (paid by the piece) in the seventies are now flat salary $10 - $12 and competing with factories in areas where worker might not make that much in a ten hour day. (Not been that many years since it came out that Nike would move a factory if wages rose to 25 cents an hour.) Drywallers were paid over $15/hour locally when I started doing AEC engineering in '93; now they are lucky to get $10/hour. Such a person as your average long term handout recipient simply cannot see himself or herself actually being any better off no matter how hard they work, and barring some great luck, isn't ever going to see much return on their hard work. Given that system, it's all well and good to demand that they get off assistance, but it's not very likely. Even government entities are increasingly outsourcing their low skilled work, so the employer might save a buck an hour but the actual janitors might drop several bucks an hour. And there's almost no way for them to not do that; the fewer people have good-paying jobs, the harder it is for a government entity to justify paying well above market wages for low skilled work. Except of course for the federal government, which can print money, borrow money, and is generally too far fro people to travel to express their anger.