Do you need a credit card?

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Beattie


False. You qualify for the same rates with no credit history that you do if you have a very high credit score.

This is wrong. When I was in college, I applied for a private student loan. I had no credit history prior to this. The rate they were offering me was something absurd, specifically because I had no existing credit history. I had to get a parent to cosign the loan to qualify for the best rate.

As another example, a couple years later I tried to apply for a credit card. I was denied because of "insufficient credit history". That is exactly what it said in the denial letter I received.

Where from? An big bank or a credit union?

The reason the big bank you applied for the loan from denied you is because they didn't care to do any of the legwork.

 

[amdskip]

Personally I believe a lot more information is tied to a debit account when compared to a credit card. All you debit card lovers continue to use them but don't come complaining here when your card is lost or stolen. We warned you.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Then maybe you would like to explain to me why I was denied credit cards, car loans, and even reduced security deposits when signing apartment leases during the time I had no credit, but I was offered all of this and more at great rates after I got a good credit history? Keep in mind that prior to trying to get all of the above and being denied I had already accumulated 4 years of impeccable history paying for rent and all of my other bills. I also was bringing in a good entry level salary for a programmer.

This whole lazy thing you are talking about is nonsense. It is not possible to be lazy here since that entire system is automated once the data entry portion is finished which they have to do in the exact same way whether you have a credit history or not.

You just proved my point.

The reason is because they wouldn't look at your income/rent payments/whatever and instead just wanted to be lazy and do FICO lending.

*palm face*

No...the reason is not because they were lazy. They did not only look at my FICO score. They entered all of this information into their system. I got denied because after their system took into account all of that information along with my lack of credit history it was determined based upon their points system that I did not qualify for what I was requesting. I did get points based on the other parts of my history and my current income, but that was not enough to get what I wanted since a good lengthy credit history counts as a ton of points. This is the case with the vast majority of lenders today.

How exactly did you determine your conclusion on this matter?

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Great trick for those under 18 and whose parents have excellent credit - get a credit card with your name physically on the card that is linked to their account. You give them money under the table, they pay the bill, and their credit score will be cloned to yours. When I turned 18 and opened a new BoA account, I was just shy of an 800.

They are in the process of closing this loophole due to heavy abuse. It may even be in effect already. Essentially what was going on is people with high credit scores would rent out their credit history to random people. You make them an authorized user but don't give them the card, & they pay you a nice amount of money for boosting their credit score.

Authorized user reporting (or at least inclusion in credit score calculation) is supposed to die, if it hasn't already.

Link for those who want to read more

Viper GTS

I am not 100% either, but last I checked authorized users were still listed on the credit report. I don't know if they actually use it for the score calc though.

 

[Svnla]

OP, get a CC with a large bank <make sure they report to ALL 3 credit agencies>.

Get one with no annual fee and grace period. Since you plan to pay off each month, interest rate is not a concern to you.

Get it and keep it up, don't screw it up. Credit worthiness is more and more important in today society <job, promotion, insurance rate, apartment, house, etc.>

Why don't we have a finance board so young bucks like OP can learn something to start his career.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: amdskip
Sure you could live with a checkbook and cash but that's old school. A credit card offers you much more in terms of protecting your money if it is lost/stolen when compared to a debit card.

False. A debit card (or check card) gives the same protections that a credit card does for purchases.

INCORRECT.

Nope


http://usa.visa.com/personal/s...am/zero_liability.html

The Zero Liability policy covers all Visa credit and debit card transactions processed over the Visa network?online or off. The only transactions not covered under the Zero Liability policy are commercial card, ATM, and non-Visa-branded PIN transactions.

A debit card and a Visa debit card are not the same thing.

True, but all of your "protections" are company specific anyway.

No, they are not. They are inherent to the way that credit cards work (the CC company is a buffer between your money & vendors) and federal law (which actually dictates a $50 liability limit, but most if not everyone just drops it all the way to $0).

You really should just quit posting, you're embarassing yourself but you're too stubborn to realize it.

Viper GTS

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: amdskip
Sure you could live with a checkbook and cash but that's old school. A credit card offers you much more in terms of protecting your money if it is lost/stolen when compared to a debit card.

False. A debit card (or check card) gives the same protections that a credit card does for purchases.

INCORRECT.

Nope

http://usa.visa.com/personal/s...am/zero_liability.html

The Zero Liability policy covers all Visa credit and debit card transactions processed over the Visa network?online or off. The only transactions not covered under the Zero Liability policy are commercial card, ATM, and non-Visa-branded PIN transactions.

Think a little deeper here:

When you make a purchase with your debit card the money is gone from your account right away. If someone wipes your account out with a fraudulent purchase you are screwed until your money is replaced by the bank. That can be a long process.

With a credit card you're never out any money - You simply call them up & say "hey that's not mine" and they deal with the rest. That is an absolutely invaluable barrier between potential thieves and your money.

Yes the end result ($0 liability) is the same but if an empty bank account makes you miss your rent payment, or your car payment, etc. you'll be wishing you had used a credit card.

Viper GTS

This is very false and a very bad misconception to spread. If they can't get the money back from the vendor for whatever reason they say, "Too bad, we are charging you anyway".

And you will have the same luck getting them to put the money back into your account after there were fraudulent transactions. Which means, usually it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

WHAT? That's not true. Many small businesses complain that credit card fraud hurts them, and not the card companies, because card companies will return the users money and not pay it to the business for fraudulent charges most times.

If the charge was fraudulent, the card company ALWAYS returns your money.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Beattie


False. You qualify for the same rates with no credit history that you do if you have a very high credit score.

This is wrong. When I was in college, I applied for a private student loan. I had no credit history prior to this. The rate they were offering me was something absurd, specifically because I had no existing credit history. I had to get a parent to cosign the loan to qualify for the best rate.

As another example, a couple years later I tried to apply for a credit card. I was denied because of "insufficient credit history". That is exactly what it said in the denial letter I received.

Where from? An big bank or a credit union?

The reason the big bank you applied for the loan from denied you is because they didn't care to do any of the legwork.

It was a big bank. What do you mean they didn't want to do the legwork? How difficult is it to pull a credit report? They were apparently willing to do the legwork to verify my parents' credit, and just because a person is older does not automatically mean they have good credit.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: amdskip
Sure you could live with a checkbook and cash but that's old school. A credit card offers you much more in terms of protecting your money if it is lost/stolen when compared to a debit card.

False. A debit card (or check card) gives the same protections that a credit card does for purchases.

INCORRECT.

Nope


http://usa.visa.com/personal/s...am/zero_liability.html

The Zero Liability policy covers all Visa credit and debit card transactions processed over the Visa network?online or off. The only transactions not covered under the Zero Liability policy are commercial card, ATM, and non-Visa-branded PIN transactions.

A debit card and a Visa debit card are not the same thing.

True, but all of your "protections" are company specific anyway.

no, the consumer protection offered by banks is a specified by FDIC and the government. Visa and other credit card companies have their own policies.

And even as spelled out by your link, if you use a Visa debit as a non-PIN transaction, it's not covered.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Then maybe you would like to explain to me why I was denied credit cards, car loans, and even reduced security deposits when signing apartment leases during the time I had no credit, but I was offered all of this and more at great rates after I got a good credit history? Keep in mind that prior to trying to get all of the above and being denied I had already accumulated 4 years of impeccable history paying for rent and all of my other bills. I also was bringing in a good entry level salary for a programmer.

This whole lazy thing you are talking about is nonsense. It is not possible to be lazy here since that entire system is automated once the data entry portion is finished which they have to do in the exact same way whether you have a credit history or not.

You just proved my point.

The reason is because they wouldn't look at your income/rent payments/whatever and instead just wanted to be lazy and do FICO lending.

*palm face*

No...the reason is not because they were lazy. They did not only look at my FICO score. They entered all of this information into their system. I got denied because after their system took into account all of that information along with my lack of credit history it was determined based upon their points system that I did not qualify for what I was requesting. I did get points based on the other parts of my history and my current income, but that was not enough to get what I wanted since a good lengthy credit history counts as a ton of points. This is the case with the vast majority of lenders today.

How exactly did you determine your conclusion on this matter?

I don't know why you specifically were denied. I don't know any of the particulars of your case. What I do know is that it is possible to get a mortgage or rent an apartment without a credit score.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Beattie

This is very false and a very bad misconception to spread. If they can't get the money back from the vendor for whatever reason they say, "Too bad, we are charging you anyway".

And you will have the same luck getting them to put the money back into your account after there were fraudulent transactions. Which means, usually it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

Wow, I don't think I've seen somebody spread such bad and downright untrue information.

First off, every loan I've ever had was based on credit score. Your score DIRECTLY impacts your interest rate.

2nd - You're not liable for fraudulent charges, you just tell the credit card company - not mine, sign a few forms and you're not liable. I recently had a credit card stolen and they ran up a few hundred dollars worth of small purchases (50-75 bucks in gas) in small period. Told them it wasn't mine and they took it off my bill immediately.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Beattie

True, but all of your "protections" are company specific anyway.

No, they are not. They are inherent to the way that credit cards work (the CC company is a buffer between your money & vendors) and federal law (which actually dictates a $50 liability limit, but most if not everyone just drops it all the way to $0).

You really should just quit posting, you're embarassing yourself but you're too stubborn to realize it.

Viper GTS

You say that the protections aren't company specific and then say it's up to the company to lower your liability from 50 to 0.

Also,

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/atmcard.shtm

Your protection for a debit card is actually the same for a CC as long as you report it within 2 business days.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

If the charge was fraudulent, the card company ALWAYS returns your money.

You are right. I got a little confused between the fraud and the chargeback thing.

Debit cards and Credit cards have the same protections as per the link I posted above for fraud. And both depend on the bank to actually let you do a chargeback.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Beattie

I don't know why you specifically were denied. I don't know any of the particulars of your case. What I do know is that it is possible to get a mortgage or rent an apartment without a credit score.

Renting, yes but you won't get the benefits of a lower security deposit like many offer to those with good credit histories.

Mortgages, maybe. I know this is barely offered anywhere right now due to the economy assuming it is even offered at all anymore. I also know that while you may be able to get some kind of mortgage, it will not be for much and the rate which you will offered is awful. The same goes for car loans and pretty much any other kind of loan too.

In general, lenders have learned that it is extremely unwise to only look at one's FICO score and in addition to that their entire system is automated now. No one does this work manually. Therefore, there is no legwork to get lazy about. Every lender takes into account just about everything that has been mentioned in this thread and more. The only difference between lenders is what they are willing to offer to those who get high or low scores based on their custom point system.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I got a credit card through my bank (regional bank) with a limit of $300 in 1998. It turned out to be a great deal because they were legit.

Beware of Bank of America and Chase. I had accounts with both of these companies. Not only were they unethical and charged my account late fees for no reason, both had poor customer service and gave me attitude.

American Express is the only credit card I use now...though I still have my original regional bank Visa. It's got a credit limit of $6k on it now. Amex is great...not only have they never billed me for no reason, they have the best customer service by far, buyer protection, and other great benefits (like car rental insurance)

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Overall - get a CC and treat it just the same as a debit card... the only difference is that the money isn't removed right away. I haven't seen a reason not to get a CC, only reasons to not get a debit card.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Beattie

I don't know why you specifically were denied. I don't know any of the particulars of your case. What I do know is that it is possible to get a mortgage or rent an apartment without a credit score.

Renting, yes but you won't get the benefits of a lower security deposit like many offer to those with good credit histories.

Mortgages, maybe. I know this is barely offered anywhere right now due to the economy assuming it is even offered at all anymore. I also know that while you may be able to get some kind of mortgage, it will not be for much and the rate which you will offered is awful. The same goes for car loans and pretty much any other kind of loan too.

In general, lenders have learned that it is extremely unwise to only look at one's FICO score and in addition to that their entire system is automated now. No one does this work manually. Therefore, there is no legwork to get lazy about. Every lender takes into account just about everything that has been mentioned in this thread and more. The only difference between lenders is what they are willing to offer to those who get high or low scores based on their custom point system.

Lenders pull up your fico score and care most about seeing that you had monthly payments that you made in full every time. This almost always mean that you'll have a good credit score as well.

I don't see any reason to avoid building up credit history... just get a CC and treat it like a debit card, that's all it is.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Beattie


False. You qualify for the same rates with no credit history that you do if you have a very high credit score.

This is wrong. When I was in college, I applied for a private student loan. I had no credit history prior to this. The rate they were offering me was something absurd, specifically because I had no existing credit history. I had to get a parent to cosign the loan to qualify for the best rate.

As another example, a couple years later I tried to apply for a credit card. I was denied because of "insufficient credit history". That is exactly what it said in the denial letter I received.

Where from? An big bank or a credit union?

The reason the big bank you applied for the loan from denied you is because they didn't care to do any of the legwork.

It was a big bank. What do you mean they didn't want to do the legwork? How difficult is it to pull a credit report? They were apparently willing to do the legwork to verify my parents' credit, and just because a person is older does not automatically mean they have good credit.

I don't know your specific case and so I really can't comment but most of the time lenders are reasonably generous with student loans. And checking your parent's score to co-sign isn't leg work. It's just getting another number from a computer.

 

[Caecus Veritas]

Beattie, i work at a bank and can tell you right off the bat that you are indeed seriously misinformed.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Beattie

I don't know why you specifically were denied. I don't know any of the particulars of your case. What I do know is that it is possible to get a mortgage or rent an apartment without a credit score.

Renting, yes but you won't get the benefits of a lower security deposit like many offer to those with good credit histories.

Mortgages, maybe. I know this is barely offered anywhere right now due to the economy assuming it is even offered at all anymore. I also know that while you may be able to get some kind of mortgage, it will not be for much and the rate which you will offered is awful. The same goes for car loans and pretty much any other kind of loan too.

In general, lenders have learned that it is extremely unwise to only look at one's FICO score and in addition to that their entire system is automated now. No one does this work manually. Therefore, there is no legwork to get lazy about. Every lender takes into account just about everything that has been mentioned in this thread and more. The only difference between lenders is what they are willing to offer to those who get high or low scores based on their custom point system.

Here's at least one lender that does it. Seems to indicate that you can get the same rate with or without a credit score.

http://www.churchillmortgage.com/Credit_Help_Menu.php

No Score - No Credit

Many people that have never used credit, or have stopped using credit will not have a credit score.
That is due to the inability of the computer model to find enough items to create a profile for you.
Some mortgage companies do not have programs that allow borrowers with no score to get the best rates and programs.
Here at Churchill Mortgage, we have several ways to help borrowers with no scores and no reported credit file A+ rates!
If you think you fit this category, call us now so we can put you in touch with a loan specialist that can help you get the A+ rates you deserve!

 

[vudood]

It would be very very difficult to get a mortgage without any sort of credit history. There are a minimum number of trade lines (car loan, student loan, revolving debt, etc.) that you must have in order to qualify for a loan.....

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
I got a credit card through my bank (regional bank) with a limit of $300 in 1998. It turned out to be a great deal because they were legit.

Beware of Bank of America and Chase. I had accounts with both of these companies. Not only were they unethical and charged my account late fees for no reason, both had poor customer service and gave me attitude.

American Express is the only credit card I use now...though I still have my original regional bank Visa. It's got a credit limit of $6k on it now. Amex is great...not only have they never billed me for no reason, they have the best customer service by far, buyer protection, and other great benefits (like car rental insurance)

To the haters, I never had a bank charge me for late fees for no reason on my debit card account.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: Caecus Veritas
Beattie, i work at a bank and can tell you right off the bat that you are indeed seriously misinformed.

Ok, tell me where I am wrong, why, and if possible, cite examples.

I don't know everything. But I do know that you can live without a fico score.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Beattie - let's say you're right for the time being. Do you have a single reason to not get a CC?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Beattie

I don't know why you specifically were denied. I don't know any of the particulars of your case. What I do know is that it is possible to get a mortgage or rent an apartment without a credit score.

Renting, yes but you won't get the benefits of a lower security deposit like many offer to those with good credit histories.

Mortgages, maybe. I know this is barely offered anywhere right now due to the economy assuming it is even offered at all anymore. I also know that while you may be able to get some kind of mortgage, it will not be for much and the rate which you will offered is awful. The same goes for car loans and pretty much any other kind of loan too.

In general, lenders have learned that it is extremely unwise to only look at one's FICO score and in addition to that their entire system is automated now. No one does this work manually. Therefore, there is no legwork to get lazy about. Every lender takes into account just about everything that has been mentioned in this thread and more. The only difference between lenders is what they are willing to offer to those who get high or low scores based on their custom point system.

Here's at least one lender that does it. Seems to indicate that you can get the same rate with or without a credit score.

http://www.churchillmortgage.com/Credit_Help_Menu.php

No Score - No Credit

Many people that have never used credit, or have stopped using credit will not have a credit score.
That is due to the inability of the computer model to find enough items to create a profile for you.
Some mortgage companies do not have programs that allow borrowers with no score to get the best rates and programs.
Here at Churchill Mortgage, we have several ways to help borrowers with no scores and no reported credit file A+ rates!
If you think you fit this category, call us now so we can put you in touch with a loan specialist that can help you get the A+ rates you deserve!

Don't believe everything you read. I'm not saying that they do not offer mortgages and that their rates for those without credit histories are terrible, but I am telling you that what you got there is nothing but a sales pitch. The only thing that counts is what they approve you for in writing. I don't have to tell how much this industry is cut throat and how much they are willing to use deceptive marketing tactics to get you through that door.

In any case, I will bet dollars to donuts that anyone who walks into Churchill Mortgage and gets a rate with no credit will not be as low as the rate of a client with excellent credit. At best, it just means that they beat the competition when it comes to those who offer loans to people with no credit. That or they do not beat the competition but are just trying to fish from the pool of customers which have no where else to turn because they are being denied by everyone.