Do you like level grinding in RPGs?

[magomago]

I think some of you guys have some interesting views. I've rarely grinded for the main story in any Final Fantasy. Never did it in 10,9,8,7, Mystic Quest. FF6 I only grinded in the World of Ruin; before then I never had to (although there were some really tough bosses I'll give you that). Never played 5,4, or any of the NES games. I feel there either has to be exaggeration, or people really just hate random quests.
Now I've grinded because I want to be more powerful, do a side quest, get a special item in a super annoying place (ie: side quest related), but even then the level of 'grind' isn't anything special.
Actually in FF8 Square had it so you literally NEVER needed to grind; the enemies are autoscaled to Squall's level. You could beat the game and be under level 10 if you so desired.

Now when I think grind I think of two things:
(a) MMO general grinding
(b) Korean Grinding.

(a) is like WOW. Get 10x of an item; you will need to kill between 25-50 to get your 10. In the earlier days before wow totally Noobed the game (and it is a noobed game in the first place, which goes to show how much of it is extremely straight forward with little to no challange) I remember crappy 2% drop rates for several quests. You could argue "but there is a story" , but be realistic wow has no real story that you are guided along as a character that affects the world~ it is just lore that exists and the point of the game is to (1) Kill stuff and Grind (2) Chat and hang out with Friends (c) Have fun doing a and b.

(b) Korean grinding is a category of its own. The 2% drop rate that was uncommon before (and is now virtually rare in WOW when considering the content as a whole) is now the standard rate of play in these games. Anyone remember Ragnarok? I played when it was free circa 2002 or 203 (is it still free? Who knows, I played because it looked pretty and ran decently on my old old pc) and I can literally remember the grind fest. The only enemies that I could kill (something like looked like praying mantises) would give me around .2% exp bar per kill at level 25. The next highest level on the map would absolutely eat me alive, so I literally had to grind hundreds of enemies....just so I could level ONCE, watch the return rate of exp get smaller, and do it AGAIN for the next 4 levels. I gave up after that point and decided it wasn't worth it because there was nothing to gain at all. Other games like Maple Story are similar.

so when I look at people talk about the cultural grind fest in Japanese RPG I'm surprised because I feel that it is a Korean Phenomonan. Almost all of the Japanese RPGs I played (never played Dragon Quest, so that might be the kicker) have never required me to grind more than 3-4 hours total per game (assuming 40 hours of gameplay) just to finish the main quest.

Are you guys referring to 'random battles' as 'grinding'? If so, then as another user pointed out, there has to be something to do as you run across maps Furthermore, it is a way to get you to use the battle system more often lol.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

I've rarely grinded for the main story in any Final Fantasy. Never did it in 10,9,8,7, Mystic Quest. FF6 I only grinded in the World of Ruin; before then I never had to (although there were some really tough bosses I'll give you that). Never played 5,4, or any of the NES games.

Walking through a dungeon or the world map and getting into a random encounter battle every few steps is grinding. Having to repeatedly fight the same groups of enemies so that your characters do not become under-leveled and unusable is grinding (Otherwise just run away from each battle, no?). All the FF games I have played (FF1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9) have this.

My quick fix would be:
Increase experience 5 fold, reduce random encounters by 5, make random encounter battles more interesting and difficult. Also make them avoidable and not random. Sure, the game would be way shorter, but that goes to show just how much of the game is just pointless grind filler. And then there is also, you know, coming up with creative forms of gameplay and actual content to fill the time spent in the game.

 

[Pia]

I hate all grinding (my definition: repetitive stuff that offers me no challenge and is required to get ahead in the game) so I don't really play cRPGs.

The only cRPG I've bought after Eye of the Beholder is The Witcher. Something about the scenario seemed interesting. Haven't played it yet. I hope there isn't much grindan in it.

 

[magomago]

Walking through a dungeon or the world map and getting into a random encounter battle every few steps is grinding. Having to repeatedly fight the same groups of enemies so that your characters do not become under-leveled and unusable is grinding (Otherwise just run away from each battle, no?). All the FF games I have played (FF1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9) have this.

Ya see to me random battles isn't grinding. Grinding, to me, is choosing to engage in random battles willingly. Just like willingly smiting 400 praying mantises in the same area of the map just to level up is grinding. Just like doing the same dungeon in WOW over and over hoping that (a) the item with a 15% drop rate actually drops and (b) you win the roll for it.
If I can get from point A to point B on a series of maps, deal with random encounters, and get to the boss such that (a) I'm not woefully underpowered or (b) I'm not woefully over powered, then it isn't grinding.

You should play Skies of Arcadia for the Dreamcast if you think that the frequency of random battles on any FF is simply too much Of course it doesn't match anything that comes out of South Korea (Which I stated earlier)

But yeah I think we have different perspectives on what constitutes grinding.

 

[SR1729]

Final Fantasy is probably the most notorious level grinding series but you can grind away in most RPGs, especially the old school Japanese ones. Some people hate having to do it, others love it. How do you feel?

Personally I love it. I don't know why it's monotonous and boring. Perhaps it has some sort of hypnotic quality to it, staring at the same battle screen, the same monsters, listening to the same music hour after hour. And the fact that you ARE progressing slowly still gives you that feeling of accomplishment, but in nanoscale increments.

To the contrary, it makes me realize how much a waste of time video games are. Then I go run, study, get some work done, etc. If a video game can't distract me from its own worthlessness, I won't play it. That includes monotonous RPGs.

 

[Locut0s]

To the contrary, it makes me realize how much a waste of time video games are. Then I go run, study, get some work done, etc. If a video game can't distract me from its own worthlessness, I won't play it. That includes monotonous RPGs.

You are assuming that I have a life.

 

[pathos]

Ya see to me random battles isn't grinding. Grinding, to me, is choosing to engage in random battles willingly. Just like willingly smiting 400 praying mantises in the same area of the map just to level up is grinding. Just like doing the same dungeon in WOW over and over hoping that (a) the item with a 15% drop rate actually drops and (b) you win the roll for it.
If I can get from point A to point B on a series of maps, deal with random encounters, and get to the boss such that (a) I'm not woefully underpowered or (b) I'm not woefully over powered, then it isn't grinding.

You should play Skies of Arcadia for the Dreamcast if you think that the frequency of random battles on any FF is simply too much Of course it doesn't match anything that comes out of South Korea (Which I stated earlier)

But yeah I think we have different perspectives on what constitutes grinding.

Hrm, I've played Lineage 2, Sword of the New World, Aion, and Atlantica Online. I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about when you talk about Korean grinds. But, although I haven't gone back to read the first post, I know I assumed he was talking about rpg's, and not mmo's. If we want to throw in mmo's, then sure, the Korean ones are most likely the worst offenders.

But, here is a grind in a jrpg that annoyed me. FF12.

Now, I'm not talking about grinding high enough levels to do the optional summons fights, or big mob hunts. But, here is how my game usually played.

"Oh, look, a waystation with some merchants. Lets buy some new gear, since I have 60k saved up from getting here. Hrm, 1 breastplate = 20k. 20kx6=120k. Now, weapons average 25k. 25kx6=150k. To outfit everyone I need just under 300k? wtf? Even if I just outfit my active party I'm still 80k short? /que nerdrage"

I spent a good amount of time running around fighting just to buy gear. Now, it was not mandatory to buy that gear, but to an obsessive personality like mine, it sure felt that way.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Perhaps it has some sort of hypnotic quality to it, staring at the same battle screen, the same monsters, listening to the same music hour after hour.

Usually when I encounter a game like this, I'll be hypnotized by it for a few hours before I shut it off and never touch it again. That's what happened with Sid Meier's Pirates for the original Xbox (got it a few months ago and it was entirely boring but also just addictive enough that it kept me going for a while). Eventually I realized that I wasn't doing ANYTHING and that every single port was the same thing so I put it down. Haven't picked it back up since and I doubt I ever will.

The worst part was the dancing.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Repeating the same battles against the same enemies in the same locations over and over again is grinding.

In Persona 3, for example, to be ready for the boss battles I'd guess you need to go through the same floors of the tower 3-5 times. Each floor usually has multiple sets of the same monsters so you are grinding on top of grinding.

 

[jiffylube1024]

I also find level grinding annoying, especially in uber-long RPG's. Strangely I find it more tolerable in a game like Final Fantasy I (including all of it's remakes) than in newer RPG's.
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I'm off-and-on playing Chrono Trigger on the DS (which is like my 10th playthrough of the game including SNES, but I digress). One of the beautiful things about CT is that it greatly reduced the amount of level grinding in making many enemy fights optional. Chrono Cross took it a step further and make even more fights optional.

I find it odd that many JRPG's have taken a step back towards level grinding again. Final Fantasy XII was an interesting step in a new direction. I haven't played FF XIII yet, and am waiting for the price to come down before I even bother trying. I'm in no rush - it's the first mainstream FF game to get such low (< 90&#37; overall) review scores.

 

[Locut0s]

I also find level grinding annoying, especially in uber-long RPG's. Strangely I find it more tolerable in a game like Final Fantasy I (including all of it's remakes) than in newer RPG's.
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I'm off-and-on playing Chrono Trigger on the DS (which is like my 10th playthrough of the game including SNES, but I digress). One of the beautiful things about CT is that it greatly reduced the amount of level grinding in making many enemy fights optional. Chrono Cross took it a step further and make even more fights optional.

I find it odd that many JRPG's have taken a step back towards level grinding again. Final Fantasy XII was an interesting step in a new direction. I haven't played FF XIII yet, and am waiting for the price to come down before I even bother trying. I'm in no rush - it's the first mainstream FF game to get such low (< 90% overall) review scores.

Most people seem to dislike it because of its linearity more than anything else. Most of the reviewers have been long time FF players and used to the open sandbox worlds that have been the norm of most recent FF games. FF13 does away with much of that.

 

[exar333]

If you look at the grinding in most FF games, it is usually not neccessary for the main story. Some players who are having difficulty in some areas can "grind" for a short time and improve their characters and move on. It is a good benchmark of the strength of your team, and lets you know how powerful your group is and what to expect.

Most FF grinding is done to reach extra areas and/or optional bosses. This is entirely up to the player, but many hardcore RPG players like to access hidden sections and play extra-challenging bosses. Other players are sometimes "completists" and just want to see and get everything.

Personally, I don't mind grinding if the reward is worth the effort. If grinding for a few hours nets me some powerful items that I can use for a number of conflicts, great! If grinding for 10 hours only nets me the chance to fight one more optional enemy, screw it.

Some grinding is more fun than others too. Hunting and raising chocobos in FF VII was tedious, but also fun. Sitting and fighting the same creatures in the forest for 10-20 hours maxing out materia was not nearly as much fun.

 

[Rage187]

Look at me resurrecting a thread from a couple years ago just to reaffirm I love grinding. Grinding out Eternal Sonata which is one of the most linear games I've played and I still love it. Hated FF13 though, fuck whomever made that pile of shit.

Grinding is like putting a piece of Ikea furniture together. I find it therapeutic.

I really love grinding on RPG crafting. Holy shit is it fullfilling. Let me craft some &#252;ber item early in the game. Infinite Undiscovery nailed it with the A Pass and B Pass you could download for free.

 

[DirthNader]

I also find level grinding annoying, especially in uber-long RPG's. Strangely I find it more tolerable in a game like Final Fantasy I (including all of it's remakes) than in newer RPG's.

Just have to point out that classic JRPGs like Final Fantasy have had their grinding significantly reduced in their remakes by upping experience and currency rewards.

FF1 on the NES / Famicom is a grindfest. Every single new town involves finding a place where a high value mob is easy to come by (Giant's Hall in FF Earth Cave) and killing it for hours to afford the new spells and equipment you need to continue on the main quest.

 

[Tweak155]

I remember grinding Materia XP in FF7 and liking it. I also did grinding for character levels because I was too chicken to fight Sephiroth at lower levels. Looking back I probably would have skipped the character levels, but still leveled the Materia.