Do you have a favorite pbx?

[calinjp]

I am looking into a new pbx for the small school that i work at, and would like to know what pbx's everyone supports, as well as how you like them. Currently we have an OLD meridian system, but it is failing quickly, and we don't think it is worth investing the time and money trying to repair it. We are a bit interested in the 3com nbx, it seems like the web based configuration and VoE would work well for us. But on a price point i might have to go with asterisk, eventhough it seems like it will be harder to support. Today i will setup an asterisk server and try it out over our lan with a couple of softphones. we'll see how it goes.

We only have 4 incoming lines, and about 30 extensions. What do you guys think? Any recommendations/questions/warnings? I have already been told twice to stay away from inter-tel, but without much backing up the warnings. What do you support at work and how do you like it? What do you wish you had at work?

Let me know what you think.

 

[cmetz]

A company I work with sells Altigen computer-based PBXs and they seem to work well for small business type customers. They are not keeping up with modern times though.

Asterisk is a cool toy, has a lot of real promise, but not yet something I would feel comfortable deploying.

Modern Avaya systems are expensive and don't work well, in particular anything with VoIP or Windows. Inter-Tel also has reliability problems.

In general, I'm really surprised by how expensive phone systems are and how poorly they work for it. It used to be in the old Lucent/Nortel days that you could write a really big check and get a rock solid system. Now, you can still write the big check

 

[Joony]

Cisco Call Manager is great! (but expensive, just like everything they sell)

We have over 500 deployed and they aren't giving much trouble even though they are sharing data with an existing computer network.

At home i'm currently configuring an Asterisk based PBX, so far it seems great! (using Cisco IP phones)

 

[spidey07]

would 30 extensions really need the power of a PBX? Generally PBXs are VERY expensive and are fully redundant.

I would think a key system or smaller branch exchange system would work well. For that size I'm all for letting the local telco/reseller taking care of all your voice/voice mail needs.

 

[ScottMac]

OR perhaps even Centrex service ..... or in some areas there are providers for "Centrex VoIP" services.

FWIW

Scott

 

[calinjp]

We looked into Centrex, but will that work with a 3.5 acre campus? Or rather how would it work with a 3.5 acre campus. We have 12 differnet buildings that this sytem will be in. 15 extensions in the main office and 15 elsewhere on the campus. That is why we want to use a voip system, so we can use our existing campus wide network. We were looking into the Toshiba CTX100, but it would have meant running a lot of new wires, where we already have cat5. Another minus for Centrex is that we have new staffing coming and going all the time to teach different classes, and we will want to be able to make autoatendant/voicemail changes as easily as possible. With Centrex, wouldn't the carrier have to make those for us? I think a key system would be fine, if it supports voe or voip.
Cisco is very expensive and hard to manage. Plus we don't have 3 servers or the money for 3 servers to run it on. Hell, right now we only have 2 servers. One 2003 server for files/printing/dhcp/outgoing mail and one transparent proxy / webfiltering.

so far har have to agree:

Originally posted by: cmetz
In general, I'm really surprised by how expensive phone systems are and how poorly they work for it. It used to be in the old Lucent/Nortel days that you could write a really big check and get a rock solid system. Now, you can still write the big check

 

[spidey07]

well, cabling is cabling. You need some kind of cable to each system. What are they using now?

In a typical campus voice cable all runs to a central location (where the phone system is). Sure there can be numerous distrubtion frames, but somehow it all goes to the PBX.

 

[ScottMac]

Centrex is a service where the Telco does the PBX function for you. It uses existing phones (no new cabling, at least to implement the service).

Most Centrex services have a web portal (use to be Telnet) for MACD (Moves, Adds, Changes, Deletions) - the customer does their own (or not, depends on the Telco, and the service level contracted).

If you *JUST HAVE TO* do VoIP (and go from a five-nines system to ~three nines at best), you might want to check out Avaya.

Their system & philosophy is to use the existing phones (digital and analog) to keep implementation costs down, but also have VoIP capability for growth. The Avaya boxes are complete units with call management, gateway services, FTP, TFTP, Web, and basic voice mail capabilities. For full service voice mail / integrated messaging, you still have to use MS Exchange on a separate server.

Keep in mind that you can't buy a new Mercedes Benz for the same cost as a Geo Metro. In many cases, you get what you pay for. If you can't swing the expense to do it right (at whatever level you choose), then don't do it. There's nothing as frustrating or painful as a half-assed phone system. If the money isn't thee to do it now, wait until it's available and do it right.

FWIW

Scott

 

[calinjp]

Right now there is no campus wide pbx. only one for the 15 phones in the office. We are hoping to add the other phones, so there is no infrastructure inplace except for the data network. and rather than run 2 concurrent networks, one for phone and one for data we would like to use the existing network for both. The Centrex is out of the question, as we don't have verizon lines going to all of the buildings. I will look into the Avaya system. We have about $5k budgeted for the system. Hopefully that is enought for 30 phones!!!

Thakns again for the help! You have been giving me such great info!

 

[ScottMac]

To re-visit my first post; some providers are offering 'VoIP Centrex" (by whatever name they are calling it).

They put in a router (on your data network), the router leads back to their facilities and they manage the callmanager and voice mail. I believe most providers are compatible with any SIP phone - so you get some choices for voice terminals (US$5K isn't much ... it will barely cover the VoIP voice terminals... maybe not not even those ... at a couple hundered bucks a crack).

MACD is still handled by your administrators via web.

You get to use your data infrastructure, you get all the features & functionsl. Cost-wise ... it's a good way to get started in VoIP (just make sure that the VoIP voice terminals are compatible with your future intents to expand into your own call managers and voice mail).

Good Luck

Scott

 

[Daniel]

Originally posted by: cmetz
A company I work with sells Altigen computer-based PBXs and they seem to work well for small business type customers. They are not keeping up with modern times though.

I had a sales team trying to show me a altigen system the other day, can you point out some of the shortcomings so I can bring it up with them?

 

[cmetz]

Daniel, Altigen can only do H.323 for VoIP, and only a few codecs. SIP appears to be the winning horse in VoIP and certainly I would not invest heavily in something VoIP with no story for how they get to SIP. Ditto on their selection of VoIP codecs.

Altigen also has all sorts of copy protection crap (being PC based) which often gets in the way of installation and/or operation of the system.

There are also sundry features they don't have, like incoming fax detection, that competitors do.

If you can live within the feature set, then it's a good small business solution. They're reliable and low maintenance. And as phone systems go, extremely cheap.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
If you *JUST HAVE TO* do VoIP (and go from a five-nines system to ~three nines at best), you might want to check out Avaya.

Their system & philosophy is to use the existing phones (digital and analog) to keep implementation costs down, but also have VoIP capability for growth. The Avaya boxes are complete units with call management, gateway services, FTP, TFTP, Web, and basic voice mail capabilities. For full service voice mail / integrated messaging, you still have to use MS Exchange on a separate server.

Even if you don't use VoIP, the Avaya IP Office is still fantastic. It's so easy to Admin. I've installed dozens and the reaction I get from the IT Dept when it comes to making changes in configuration or Voicemail is always "It's that easy?" Administration of the switch is done using a tree heirarchy in a simple Windows app that can be run from any PC on the network, and the Voicemail is programmed using Visio-esque flow charts created on a Windows based voicemail server. The new Small Office Edition has brought the price down even more. And if voicemail scability isn't important to you, you can use Small Office's integrated Voicemail and not have to pay port license fees of Voicemail Pro but still get digital, POTs and VoIP capabilities all on one switch. :thumbsup:

 

[calinjp]

The Ip Office sounds very interesting. How does it compare to the 3com NBX's? And could you tell us a bit about the phones, will my end user's be able to figure it out without hours of training? how about navigating the phones menu? Simple also? Is sip supported? Can I use any standards based sip phone? How about softphones?

I see that the have an 8, 16, and 30 port analog phone part. That looks nice. Would someone like me with about 10 years networking experince be able to install this sytem allright? Does it come with install documentation?

I am still finding it hard to make a decision.... Ultra Cheep way = asterisk on linux, but harder to build, manage (even tho they do have some web based configuraion, but then you prabably have to have a LAMP server) 3com, more expensive, but should be easily maintained, or IP office. I will be bald by the time i figure it all out.

Thanks for the info/advice!

Cal-

 

[jonnyGURU]

You should research the IP Office.

The phones: It uses a number of exisitng Avaya phones. I've replaced both Definity and Magix systems without having to swap out the phones. Of course, the Phone 8, 16 and 30 allow the use of POT's and with software like the Phone Manager, the user doesn't need to scroll through menu's on the phone. Of course, if a PC isn't available to run Phone Manager on, I prefer the Magix 44XX phones which have two row LCD's on them that you can scroll through programmable features such as Call Forward, Hands Free Answer, etc.

SIP = no. IP Office uses H323 protocol. But there are a number of IP Phones available and of course, IP Soft Phones that don't even require a phone. I've installed a number of remote offices that utilize a home office's switch via nothing more than a broadband internet connection. I even have 5 offices interconnected via point to point data T1's. Each remote office has about 6 to 8 phones with 2 to 3 VoIP calls going on at the same time.

The documentation is great as of version 2.0. The "Engineer's Toolkit" is a 650MB website on a CD. I'd upload it so you can view it, but.. 650MB... you know...

Installing is easy. Unlike a lot of PBX's, terminations aren't made on 25 pair connectors. This is done to keep the units modular. Stack a Trunk 16 on top of a Digital Station 30 and have 16 dial tones plugged into one via 16 RJ11 connectors and have 30 digital desksets plugged into the other via 30 RJ11 connectors. I've actually gotten into the habit of using patch panels with the IP Office the same way you would run a patch panel to a regular network switch. I run a 25 pair cable from a 66-block where all of the wall jacks are terminated to the back of a patch panel and then run regular 1' CAT5 cables from the patch to the IP Office (all of the interfaces on the IP Office are RJ45, even though only the inside pair is used and RJ11's is all that's technically supported.) The end result is one of the cleanest phone installs you've ever seen.

 

[Gungnir]

Well, you might want to look at PBXtra at www.fonality.com. It is based on asterisk but has a happy little gui and free tech support for $1000. I bought one a week or two ago but I have not had time to set it up. They have been great to work with so far.