Do you feel that civilians always need to be armed?

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I've kind of always liked what my DPS Trooper instructor says:

No one has the right to rob you. No one has the right to hurt you. No one has the right to kill you.

And my state (TX) allows me to protect that right.

 

[capece]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: capece

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: capece
What always scares me is just how crazy people in general are. And a crazy man with a gun? All it takes is a minute's lapse of insanity for that crazy individual to grab his gun from his glove box and shoot me in the back of the head for accidentally cutting him off. An exaggerated example I suppose, but then again I've seen crazier things...

The idealistic viewpoint of a gun-wielding vigilante citizen stopping a would-be rapist dead in his tracks is, I believe, even more of an exaggeration.

Edit--that should be a minute's lapse of sanity.

Heres a thought....Dont drive like a maniac!!

Imagine that. If your a civil person you dont have to worry about Johnny Crazy deciding to wig out and shoot you!

Anyone remember the thread some time back about the ATOTer that was out for a drive and some guy started ramming his car with a pickup the guy was driving. ATOTer pulled over and crazy guy stepped out with a gun.

I havent forgotten. The ATOTer did NOTHING wrong. It truly was "wrong place, wrong time" and he was caught with his pants down around his ankles.

I'm ALL for gun ownership and carrying.

You say you are all for gun ownership and then give an example where that gun may have caused this individual who did nothing wrong to lose her/his life. It is nice to think that "if I do no harm to others no harm will be done to me." The reality is the world doesn't work like that, as your example shows.

First off in no example did anyone do anything wrong to lose a life.

Secondly, you yourself admit to wreckless behaviour. I was putting your fears at ease. If you dont act like a jerkoff, maybe the guy behind you wouldnt have an urge to shoot you.

Lastly, the other scenario is to showcase that even if you do nothing wrong you can still end up as a victim.

So, dont drive like a jerkoff and your fears are put to rest that the guy behind you will wig out and shoot you for cutting him off, and carry a gun in case the guy behind you ius a certified Graade A psycho and wants to shoot you for no other reason then because your there.

Just one thing: Never did I admit to "wreckless [sic] behaviour." Rather, I wrote, and I quote, "An exaggerated example" to illustrate my opinion.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: capece

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: capece

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: capece
What always scares me is just how crazy people in general are. And a crazy man with a gun? All it takes is a minute's lapse of insanity for that crazy individual to grab his gun from his glove box and shoot me in the back of the head for accidentally cutting him off. An exaggerated example I suppose, but then again I've seen crazier things...

The idealistic viewpoint of a gun-wielding vigilante citizen stopping a would-be rapist dead in his tracks is, I believe, even more of an exaggeration.

Edit--that should be a minute's lapse of sanity.

Heres a thought....Dont drive like a maniac!!

Imagine that. If your a civil person you dont have to worry about Johnny Crazy deciding to wig out and shoot you!

Anyone remember the thread some time back about the ATOTer that was out for a drive and some guy started ramming his car with a pickup the guy was driving. ATOTer pulled over and crazy guy stepped out with a gun.

I havent forgotten. The ATOTer did NOTHING wrong. It truly was "wrong place, wrong time" and he was caught with his pants down around his ankles.

I'm ALL for gun ownership and carrying.

You say you are all for gun ownership and then give an example where that gun may have caused this individual who did nothing wrong to lose her/his life. It is nice to think that "if I do no harm to others no harm will be done to me." The reality is the world doesn't work like that, as your example shows.

First off in no example did anyone do anything wrong to lose a life.

Secondly, you yourself admit to wreckless behaviour. I was putting your fears at ease. If you dont act like a jerkoff, maybe the guy behind you wouldnt have an urge to shoot you.

Lastly, the other scenario is to showcase that even if you do nothing wrong you can still end up as a victim.

So, dont drive like a jerkoff and your fears are put to rest that the guy behind you will wig out and shoot you for cutting him off, and carry a gun in case the guy behind you ius a certified Graade A psycho and wants to shoot you for no other reason then because your there.

Just one thing: Never did I admit to "wreckless [sic] behaviour." Rather, I wrote, and I quote, "An exaggerated example" to illustrate my opinion.

So your doing what all the scared gun grabbers do an making up worst case fictional scenarios and trying to apply them to real life.

Gotchya.

Well hell, lets just go all out.

What if a satellite carrying cocaine exploded and showered PCP dust down on the entire country. Then everyone would be hopped up and have guns, and when they saw the purple dragons flying around they would want to shoot people to appease their new flying dragon masters!

BAN GUNS!!

Point is your fears are unfounded. You should educate yourself both in firearms crime statistics as well as firearms ownership and realize a firearm is nothing more then a tool. Its no more harmful then a knife, hammer or pencil unless its used inappropriately.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: capece
What always scares me is just how crazy people in general are. And a crazy man with a gun? All it takes is a minute's lapse of insanity for that crazy individual to grab his gun from his glove box and shoot me in the back of the head for accidentally cutting him off. An exaggerated example I suppose, but then again I've seen crazier things...

The idealistic viewpoint of a gun-wielding vigilante citizen stopping a would-be rapist dead in his tracks is, I believe, even more of an exaggeration.

Edit--that should be a minute's lapse of sanity.

Not really all that exaggerated. That happened here just a few months ago, except the road raging driver killed the passenger instead of the driver.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Heres a thought....Dont drive like a maniac!!

Imagine that. If your a civil person you dont have to worry about Johnny Crazy deciding to wig out and shoot you!

Anyone remember the thread some time back about the ATOTer that was out for a drive and some guy started ramming his car with a pickup the guy was driving. ATOTer pulled over and crazy guy stepped out with a gun.

I havent forgotten. The ATOTer did NOTHING wrong. It truly was "wrong place, wrong time" and he was caught with his pants down around his ankles.

I'm ALL for gun ownership and carrying.

Wow... a really piss poor argument.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: kingtas
I think if all Americans were permitted to carry concealed hanguns without permits, some people would die in fits of anger. But I also think a lot less people would die in other situations, like Columbine HS.

Plenty of people have been shot dead after giving up their wallet peacefully. Heck, cashiers readily give up the loot because it's not their money and still get killed.

If you saw a man walking down the street who you thought might be armed, would you attack him or the other guy across the street who you knew to be unarmed?

Yeah, I seriously think all teachers should be trained to use handguns, and should be required to carry one on their person. School shootings would become virtually non-existant.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
Not always, but I'm sure as hell glad I'm allowed to carry. I went out to our Forestry Station the other day to do some recording and found a bow hunter on restricted property ("research in progress" land) and asked him to leave. He pointed his bow at me, I pointed my Para at him...he left. Scared the shite out of me.

wow...I would have shot without a second thought if he aimed at me.
trespass + fear of personal safety (bow aimed at me) = self defense FTW.

I tend to agree. However, it's good that the situation didn't quite go that far.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: newParadigm

Originally posted by: kingtas
I think if all Americans were permitted to carry concealed hanguns without permits, some people would die in fits of anger. But I also think a lot less people would die in other situations, like Columbine HS.

Plenty of people have been shot dead after giving up their wallet peacefully. Heck, cashiers readily give up the loot because it's not their money and still get killed.

If you saw a man walking down the street who you thought might be armed, would you attack him or the other guy across the street who you knew to be unarmed?

Yeah, I seriously think all teachers should be trained to use handguns, and should be required to carry one on their person. School shootings would become virtually non-existant.

Until some kid happens to get the teacher's gun and kills someone with it...then the uproar will be deafening.

I'm kind of in the middle in this argument...on side, I wonder why the hell so many people are so afraid that they think everyone should carry a firearm?
On the other hand, I know that in many areas, crime is rampant, and carrying a handgun MIGHT give you the chance to prevent a crime upon your person. However, YOU pulling a weapon will most likely escalate the attempted robbery or whatever into a homicide, whether by the assailant, or by you. (yes, even justifiable shootinge are called homicide...justifiable homicide)
I certainly don't advocate just rolling over and letting the punks win, but if you get robbed by someone with a gun, not only are you probably going to lose your wallet, watch and other valuables, but you could lose your handgun as well, and maybe your life just for carrying.
Sure, the "gun nuts" all believe that having a handgun gives them the opportunity to stop the crime in it's beginnings, or stop the crook at the time of the crime...and it DOES happen, but it also puts more firearms at the disposal of the criminal element who take them away from untrained citizens. Just taking a basic firearm safety course isn't nearly enough. You have to know how and when to use it, and when NOT to use it...
I don't carry, (felony record) but I'm NOT against the right to do so. I DO however believe that the average citizen has no place carrying a firearm with the misdirected belief that it will make them invulnerable to attack...

"I got me a gun...you can't rob me"

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: capece
What always scares me is just how crazy people in general are. And a crazy man with a gun? All it takes is a minute's lapse of insanity for that crazy individual to grab his gun from his glove box and shoot me in the back of the head for accidentally cutting him off. An exaggerated example I suppose, but then again I've seen crazier things...

The idealistic viewpoint of a gun-wielding vigilante citizen stopping a would-be rapist dead in his tracks is, I believe, even more of an exaggeration.

Edit--that should be a minute's lapse of sanity.

Not really all that exaggerated. That happened here just a few months ago, except the road raging driver killed the passenger instead of the driver.

And what set the road raging driver off?
Funny, you didnt mention that part did you.......

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Heres a thought....Dont drive like a maniac!!

Imagine that. If your a civil person you dont have to worry about Johnny Crazy deciding to wig out and shoot you!

Anyone remember the thread some time back about the ATOTer that was out for a drive and some guy started ramming his car with a pickup the guy was driving. ATOTer pulled over and crazy guy stepped out with a gun.

I havent forgotten. The ATOTer did NOTHING wrong. It truly was "wrong place, wrong time" and he was caught with his pants down around his ankles.

I'm ALL for gun ownership and carrying.

Wow... a really piss poor argument.

It must be, as you did such a good job of tearing it apart point by point.

Well done to you sir!

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Until some kid happens to get the teacher's gun and kills someone with it...then the uproar will be deafening.

I'm kind of in the middle in this argument...on side, I wonder why the hell so many people are so afraid that they think everyone should carry a firearm?
On the other hand, I know that in many areas, crime is rampant, and carrying a handgun MIGHT give you the chance to prevent a crime upon your person. However, YOU pulling a weapon will most likely escalate the attempted robbery or whatever into a homicide, whether by the assailant, or by you. (yes, even justifiable shootinge are called homicide...justifiable homicide)
I certainly don't advocate just rolling over and letting the punks win, but if you get robbed by someone with a gun, not only are you probably going to lose your wallet, watch and other valuables, but you could lose your handgun as well, and maybe your life just for carrying.
Sure, the "gun nuts" all believe that having a handgun gives them the opportunity to stop the crime in it's beginnings, or stop the crook at the time of the crime...and it DOES happen, but it also puts more firearms at the disposal of the criminal element who take them away from untrained citizens. Just taking a basic firearm safety course isn't nearly enough. You have to know how and when to use it, and when NOT to use it...
I don't carry, (felony record) but I'm NOT against the right to do so. I DO however believe that the average citizen has no place carrying a firearm with the misdirected belief that it will make them invulnerable to attack...

"I got me a gun...you can't rob me"

For the record I think you should be able to buy a firearm and get a CCW permit, even with your felony record.

 

[Gooberlx2]

I think the option and freedom should be there. I do not, however, feel that it is necessary. I don't ever see myself carrying a weapon when I'm just out and about. I also think it would more easily escalate a lot of situations from being simple robberies (or whatever) to being full on shootouts, thereby putting any bystanders in possible risk as well.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Until some kid happens to get the teacher's gun and kills someone with it...then the uproar will be deafening.

I'm kind of in the middle in this argument...on side, I wonder why the hell so many people are so afraid that they think everyone should carry a firearm?
On the other hand, I know that in many areas, crime is rampant, and carrying a handgun MIGHT give you the chance to prevent a crime upon your person. However, YOU pulling a weapon will most likely escalate the attempted robbery or whatever into a homicide, whether by the assailant, or by you. (yes, even justifiable shootinge are called homicide...justifiable homicide)
I certainly don't advocate just rolling over and letting the punks win, but if you get robbed by someone with a gun, not only are you probably going to lose your wallet, watch and other valuables, but you could lose your handgun as well, and maybe your life just for carrying.
Sure, the "gun nuts" all believe that having a handgun gives them the opportunity to stop the crime in it's beginnings, or stop the crook at the time of the crime...and it DOES happen, but it also puts more firearms at the disposal of the criminal element who take them away from untrained citizens. Just taking a basic firearm safety course isn't nearly enough. You have to know how and when to use it, and when NOT to use it...
I don't carry, (felony record) but I'm NOT against the right to do so. I DO however believe that the average citizen has no place carrying a firearm with the misdirected belief that it will make them invulnerable to attack...

"I got me a gun...you can't rob me"

For the record I think you should be able to buy a firearm and get a CCW permit, even with your felony record.

Well, considering that it's over 30 years old, I agree, but, the Feds don't seem to think so...You USED to be able to apply with the ATF for a "release from disabilities" and get the right to own firearms restored, but that was killed a few years back...

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Until some kid happens to get the teacher's gun and kills someone with it...then the uproar will be deafening.

I'm kind of in the middle in this argument...on side, I wonder why the hell so many people are so afraid that they think everyone should carry a firearm?
On the other hand, I know that in many areas, crime is rampant, and carrying a handgun MIGHT give you the chance to prevent a crime upon your person. However, YOU pulling a weapon will most likely escalate the attempted robbery or whatever into a homicide, whether by the assailant, or by you. (yes, even justifiable shootinge are called homicide...justifiable homicide)
I certainly don't advocate just rolling over and letting the punks win, but if you get robbed by someone with a gun, not only are you probably going to lose your wallet, watch and other valuables, but you could lose your handgun as well, and maybe your life just for carrying.
Sure, the "gun nuts" all believe that having a handgun gives them the opportunity to stop the crime in it's beginnings, or stop the crook at the time of the crime...and it DOES happen, but it also puts more firearms at the disposal of the criminal element who take them away from untrained citizens. Just taking a basic firearm safety course isn't nearly enough. You have to know how and when to use it, and when NOT to use it...
I don't carry, (felony record) but I'm NOT against the right to do so. I DO however believe that the average citizen has no place carrying a firearm with the misdirected belief that it will make them invulnerable to attack...

"I got me a gun...you can't rob me"

For the record I think you should be able to buy a firearm and get a CCW permit, even with your felony record.

Well, considering that it's over 30 years old, I agree, but, the Feds don't seem to think so...You USED to be able to apply with the ATF for a "release from disabilities" and get the right to own firearms restored, but that was killed a few years back...

I only feel that way because if you have been found safe enough to return to the general public, you should be safe enough to trust with a firearm.
If they dont want to trust you with a firearm they shouldnt trust you enough to walk around and expect you to not commit a crime.

Obviously, they feel your safe enough to be out in public, but you cant be trusted with a firearm?? That just seems assinine to me.

As a side note, what was the charge?

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
It must be, as you did such a good job of tearing it apart point by point.

Well done to you sir!

Didn't think it was necessary since it amounted to "if you don't want to get shot don't cut someone off." The weakness of that argument is obvious.

 

[Fern]

I have CCW permit. I don't always carry. In fact I rarely carry these days going between the home & office. I also always a keep a 357. mag snubby in my car and .22 semi-auto at my desk (I'm the business owner).

Yet, I still like the option to carry and excersize it when I feel it is appropriate. You can't predict when, if ever, you may need it. So, I think being prepared is a good thing.

No, I've never gotten angry and pulled a weapon. If you're not certain that you can controll yourself, or safely operate your weapon, don't get one.

But not too long ago I had to confront some people I suspect were dealing drugs in my neighberhood. It was 2:30 at night and they were fighting in the front yard & out on the street of a vacant home. It felt pretty good to have a .38 spc in my pocket when I approached them to tell them to knock it off and leave because I was calling the police.

I like the fact they couldn't see my concealed weapon. I fear that had I had the gun out in the open, it may have escalated things.

Fern

 

[oddyager]

Allowing civilians to walk around in public with firearms is a horrible idea. You might think this will serve as a deterent for crime but what about the consequences? Some angry schmuck gets pissed off for x-reason and starts shooting at his target but only to miss and hits some innocent bystander instead. Not everyone has self-control. I think just that alone outweighs any argument for self-defense.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Specop 007
It must be, as you did such a good job of tearing it apart point by point.

Well done to you sir!

Didn't think it was necessary since it amounted to "if you don't want to get shot don't cut someone off." The weakness of that argument is obvious.

Right. So, where does "Guns are scary! If I cut someone off I'll be shot!" stand? Rational and sane I suppose?

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Right. So, where does "Guns are scary! If I cut someone off I'll be shot!" stand? Rational and sane I suppose?

Accidents happen. All I'm saying is using that in your defense of carrying guns is utterly weak.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Right. So, where does "Guns are scary! If I cut someone off I'll be shot!" stand? Rational and sane I suppose?

Accidents happen. All I'm saying is using that in your defense of carrying guns is utterly weak.

WHAT?!
So if someone gets cut off and subsequently SHOT its an ACCIDENT?!

Speaking of weak arguments....

I'll stick with my "Dont drive like an asstard" argument, thanks. And my defense in carrying guns is this..."Bad things happen".

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
WHAT?!
So if someone gets cut off and subsequently SHOT its an ACCIDENT?!

Speaking of weak arguments....

I'll stick with my "Dont drive like an asstard" argument, thanks. And my defense in carrying guns is this..."Bad things happen".

You're not even making sense anymore. What I meant was people don't always mean to cut you off. Anyway, my point still stands. Your original response to the poster that said he was concerned about the crazies out there was weak. I'm starting to think you might be a bit crazy yourself.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Specop 007
WHAT?!
So if someone gets cut off and subsequently SHOT its an ACCIDENT?!

Speaking of weak arguments....

I'll stick with my "Dont drive like an asstard" argument, thanks. And my defense in carrying guns is this..."Bad things happen".

You're not even making sense anymore. What I meant was people don't always mean to cut you off. Anyway, my point still stands. Your original response to the poster that said he was concerned about the crazies out there was weak. I'm starting to think you might be a bit crazy yourself.

Well, if your too stupid to figure out what I was saying (No one else seems to have a problem.....) then I dont know what to tell you.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: oddyager
Allowing civilians to walk around in public with firearms is a horrible idea. You might think this will serve as a deterent for crime but what about the consequences? Some angry schmuck gets pissed off for x-reason and starts shooting at his target but only to miss and hits some innocent bystander instead. Not everyone has self-control. I think just that alone outweighs any argument for self-defense.

That is the argument the anti-gun groups used every time another state had a CCW law come up. It never actually comes true once the laws pass, just another scare tactic.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Specop 007


Well, if your too stupid to figure out what I was saying (No one else seems to have a problem.....) then I dont know what to tell you.

Whatever. I know exactly what you were saying and I simply said it was a weak defense. For the record, I own 5 guns, so I'm no anti-gun lobbiest. But I certainly wouldn't want you attempting to argue on behalf of gun owners for our rights.

 

[50cent1228]

noooooooooooo...coz then retarted kidz that get teased in school could probly get thier hand on one even more easier then they could today, and kill everone