Do you feel sorry for people who don't think/believe like you do?

[WildHorse]

No.

Whenever I detect myself drifting toward having a negative criticism about somebody else, the instant I become aware it's happening I try to reign my mind in and turn it to me.
If I see something to criticize in "them" then I take the attitude of forgiving it in them and ask myself if it's true about "me."

I try to practice that as a mental discipline, really strict with myself, part of a general lifelong self-improvement /growth struggle.

How else we gonna grow?

 

[Caminetto]

Life is like a giant school school for evoloution and development of the soul.
Do you feel sorry for those interested in history when you're interests are in chemistry?

 

[piasabird]

As long as people are willing to live with the consequences of their actions it is fine with me as long as it does not harm others. However, when someone chooses to believe in some other way that does not give them the right to condemn me or others because people dont agree with them. For instance stealing harms others so if I see someone doing an act that harms others I may feel morally and legally obligated to inform the police. Often just mentioning to a person that what they are doing is illegal and why, can change their actions. However, if we say nothing it is like we are giving our approval of the illegal act.

If someone chooses to stick pieces of metal through their nose, I guess that does not really harm anyone else. However, if I choose to laugh at them or stare at them them maybe they deserve the attention they get. i.e. live with the consequences. People do outrageous things because they are outrageous so if I react to the outrageous, that must be the result they were looking for.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Inspired by the gospel of Judas thread/gnosticism. I think, to some degree, if you truly believe you know what's true, you have to feel sorry for people who are "in the dark." In reality it seems people in this position more often feel frustrated or contemptous with people who don't share their view of truth/fact, which doesn't make much sense to me. There's a lot of talk about "respecting" others' truths, but I rarely see that in practice.

If you consider yourself a seeker not yet at the point of revelation (be it on religion, politics, or just plain life) then it seems you wouldn't be compelled to feel sorry for people who think they have it down, but maybe instead either envious, contemptous or curious.

Which category do you put yourself in - a seeker or somebody (generally) who feels like they've found truth/fact? And would you describe yourself as feeling one of the ways I described towards others, or am I way off base in your circumstance.

When you find something that truely brings you happiness and peace in your life, and you share it with others and they reject it, sure, you feel a little sad for them. But at the same time, everyone has their right to believe what they want to believe.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HotChic
Inspired by the gospel of Judas thread/gnosticism. I think, to some degree, if you truly believe you know what's true, you have to feel sorry for people who are "in the dark." In reality it seems people in this position more often feel frustrated or contemptous with people who don't share their view of truth/fact, which doesn't make much sense to me. There's a lot of talk about "respecting" others' truths, but I rarely see that in practice.

If you consider yourself a seeker not yet at the point of revelation (be it on religion, politics, or just plain life) then it seems you wouldn't be compelled to feel sorry for people who think they have it down, but maybe instead either envious, contemptous or curious.

Which category do you put yourself in - a seeker or somebody (generally) who feels like they've found truth/fact? And would you describe yourself as feeling one of the ways I described towards others, or am I way off base in your circumstance.

When you find something that truely brings you happiness and peace in your life, and you share it with others and they reject it, sure, you feel a little sad for them. But at the same time, everyone has their right to believe what they want to believe.

Exactly, that is why we let Germany exterminate the Jews. Everybody has the right to believe what they want to believe.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Exactly, that is why we let Germany exterminate the Jews. Everybody has the right to believe what they want to believe.

Belief is one thing. Enforcing that belief on others is something else all together, and I NEVER stated that that was okay. Sharing what you've found with someone does not involve forcing it upon them, enacting it upon them, or anything else other than conversing with them about what you've found. Don't try to turn what I said into something it isn't.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I was typing a response but see you edited the OP, which confirmed my hunch about what you were getting at.

Inspired by the gospel of Judas thread/gnosticism. I think, to some degree, if you truly believe you know what's true, you have to feel sorry for people who are "in the dark."

The sentiment behind your sympathy is admirable, and shows that you care about others, it is self-righteousness as well though. A later post by you expands by stating

guess I could replace "feeling sorry for" with another phrase but I'm not sure what a better phrase would be. For me, it's more of a longing to help other people know what I believe to be true, since it seems a betrayal to truth, since I only believe what I do because I think it's truth, to not try to help people understand.

Maybe that is a type of superiority complex to some people. I don't mean it in any arrogant way, but I don't see how to believe something and not want to share it. I completely believe in everybody's right to reject what I think, but I feel compelled to share simply because it seems truth and fact need to be shared.

Is the intent to express that you feel compelled by compassion for others to preach the gossple to them, and would like to see more tolerance of that POV from those who do not share it? To simply return the tolerance you extend to them?If so, Not a unreasonable request 🙂


Some are so jaded by organized religion, due to personal experiences, and/or its sometimes, very negative impact on humanity throughout history, that they actively oppose it as if it were indeed an enemy. Others are simply empiricist of a sort, yet others feel preaching the gossple is just disseminating propaganda for cults bent on controlling people. Some of the people evidently feel just as compelled to oppose what they believe is superstitious nonsense as you do about your belief system. Because the POVs are so completely oppossed, and those involved so passionate about what they believe, it makes civil discussions very difficult.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HotChic
Inspired by the gospel of Judas thread/gnosticism. I think, to some degree, if you truly believe you know what's true, you have to feel sorry for people who are "in the dark." In reality it seems people in this position more often feel frustrated or contemptous with people who don't share their view of truth/fact, which doesn't make much sense to me. There's a lot of talk about "respecting" others' truths, but I rarely see that in practice.

If you consider yourself a seeker not yet at the point of revelation (be it on religion, politics, or just plain life) then it seems you wouldn't be compelled to feel sorry for people who think they have it down, but maybe instead either envious, contemptous or curious.

Which category do you put yourself in - a seeker or somebody (generally) who feels like they've found truth/fact? And would you describe yourself as feeling one of the ways I described towards others, or am I way off base in your circumstance.

When you find something that truely brings you happiness and peace in your life, and you share it with others and they reject it, sure, you feel a little sad for them. But at the same time, everyone has their right to believe what they want to believe.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for, only stated much more succinctly and better than I was saying it. 🙂

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Titan
No, I feel sorry for people who believe they must force their beliefs on others. I feel pity for those unable to answer their own questions and are forced to seek others for answers.

There is no one answer to anything. There is no standard for anything. There are truths, which can become false simply because might makes right, always.

In a more practical sense, you can see how the secularization of religion and even beliefs on things like technology may prove to be our downfall. If everyone believes something else, and no one stands together, how will we have the unity to manifest our basic needs of survival?

I wasn't talking about forcing beliefs on others, just feeling a certain way towards others.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HotChic
Inspired by the gospel of Judas thread/gnosticism. I think, to some degree, if you truly believe you know what's true, you have to feel sorry for people who are "in the dark." In reality it seems people in this position more often feel frustrated or contemptous with people who don't share their view of truth/fact, which doesn't make much sense to me. There's a lot of talk about "respecting" others' truths, but I rarely see that in practice.

If you consider yourself a seeker not yet at the point of revelation (be it on religion, politics, or just plain life) then it seems you wouldn't be compelled to feel sorry for people who think they have it down, but maybe instead either envious, contemptous or curious.

Which category do you put yourself in - a seeker or somebody (generally) who feels like they've found truth/fact? And would you describe yourself as feeling one of the ways I described towards others, or am I way off base in your circumstance.

When you find something that truely brings you happiness and peace in your life, and you share it with others and they reject it, sure, you feel a little sad for them. But at the same time, everyone has their right to believe what they want to believe.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for, only stated much more succinctly and better than I was saying it. 🙂

One of the troubles I have with this idea is that it implies that your emotional status is dependant on the thoughts and feelings of others. That dependancy implies a lack of freedom and self control. We are each our own, and shouldn't our sadness be derived from ourselves and not the thoughts of others? The effect of this is subtle, usually invisible. And this fits right in with what I was talking about earlier, in terms of judgement. If you are dependant on others emotionally, you are in no place to objectively judge them, to objectively feel sad for them because of their beliefs. This is because their beliefs have power over you. But I don't think that's what you're trying to get at. Isn't what you're talking about more of an aloof sort of sadness -- where they are seperate from you and have no power over you, and yet you are sad for them? You long for them to see what you see...?

But that is moving away from truth. Truth might be considered an absolute...unchanging...steady...But that longing, that sadness, is not truth...it is an interpretation of truth. Interpretations are not absolute -- they're constantly in flux. So, instead of feeling sad, doesn't the truth mean you should feel joy -- joy at seeing another human being, at loving them because they have their own struggles, their own decisions, their own path which is seperate from you and yet bound up within this truth which they can't escape even if they are oblivious to it.

In that sense, we are all seperate(we each have individual choice), and yet we are all bound up and connected(the same 'truth' rules our lives). In looking at that duality of connectedness/individuality I see a lot of reasons to smile and be joyful. Of course, those reasons are just me doing some interpreting.

 

[Dissipate]

Yes, I often get upset with people who believe in politics. But on the other hand I understand that they can't see the world any other way.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

One of the troubles I have with this idea is that it implies that your emotional status is dependant on the thoughts and feelings of others. That dependancy implies a lack of freedom and self control. We are each our own, and shouldn't our sadness be derived from ourselves and not the thoughts of others? The effect of this is subtle, usually invisible. And this fits right in with what I was talking about earlier, in terms of judgement. If you are dependant on others emotionally, you are in no place to objectively judge them, to objectively feel sad for them because of their beliefs. This is because their beliefs have power over you. But I don't think that's what you're trying to get at. Isn't what you're talking about more of an aloof sort of sadness -- where they are seperate from you and have no power over you, and yet you are sad for them? You long for them to see what you see...?

But that is moving away from truth. Truth might be considered an absolute...unchanging...steady...But that longing, that sadness, is not truth...it is an interpretation of truth. Interpretations are not absolute -- they're constantly in flux. So, instead of feeling sad, doesn't the truth mean you should feel joy -- joy at seeing another human being, at loving them because they have their own struggles, their own decisions, their own path which is seperate from you and yet bound up within this truth which they can't escape even if they are oblivious to it.

In that sense, we are all seperate(we each have individual choice), and yet we are all bound up and connected(the same 'truth' rules our lives). In looking at that duality of connectedness/individuality I see a lot of reasons to smile and be joyful. Of course, those reasons are just me doing some interpreting.

I'm not sure that I would say my emotional status is dependent upon others really. If I see a child trip and hurt themself on a sidewalk, I'm sad for them. Kind of human nature. But it doesn't mean that it ruins my day or stops me from having fun.

Personally, I think the idea of being able to live with my family together forever is a great idea, and I would love to share it with others. I do feel sad when they don't accept it, but I also rejoice in the fact that they have the right. Freedom of choice truely is one of the greatest gifts of all.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: HotChic
Inspired by the gospel of Judas thread/gnosticism. I think, to some degree, if you truly believe you know what's true, you have to feel sorry for people who are "in the dark." In reality it seems people in this position more often feel frustrated or contemptous with people who don't share their view of truth/fact, which doesn't make much sense to me. There's a lot of talk about "respecting" others' truths, but I rarely see that in practice.

If you consider yourself a seeker not yet at the point of revelation (be it on religion, politics, or just plain life) then it seems you wouldn't be compelled to feel sorry for people who think they have it down, but maybe instead either envious, contemptous or curious.

Which category do you put yourself in - a seeker or somebody (generally) who feels like they've found truth/fact? And would you describe yourself as feeling one of the ways I described towards others, or am I way off base in your circumstance.

When you find something that truely brings you happiness and peace in your life, and you share it with others and they reject it, sure, you feel a little sad for them. But at the same time, everyone has their right to believe what they want to believe.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for, only stated much more succinctly and better than I was saying it. 🙂

One of the troubles I have with this idea is that it implies that your emotional status is dependant on the thoughts and feelings of others. That dependancy implies a lack of freedom and self control. We are each our own, and shouldn't our sadness be derived from ourselves and not the thoughts of others? The effect of this is subtle, usually invisible. And this fits right in with what I was talking about earlier, in terms of judgement. If you are dependant on others emotionally, you are in no place to objectively judge them, to objectively feel sad for them because of their beliefs. This is because their beliefs have power over you. But I don't think that's what you're trying to get at. Isn't what you're talking about more of an aloof sort of sadness -- where they are seperate from you and have no power over you, and yet you are sad for them? You long for them to see what you see...?

But that is moving away from truth. Truth might be considered an absolute...unchanging...steady...But that longing, that sadness, is not truth...it is an interpretation of truth. Interpretations are not absolute -- they're constantly in flux. So, instead of feeling sad, doesn't the truth mean you should feel joy -- joy at seeing another human being, at loving them because they have their own struggles, their own decisions, their own path which is seperate from you and yet bound up within this truth which they can't escape even if they are oblivious to it.

In that sense, we are all seperate(we each have individual choice), and yet we are all bound up and connected(the same 'truth' rules our lives). In looking at that duality of connectedness/individuality I see a lot of reasons to smile and be joyful. Of course, those reasons are just me doing some interpreting.

Good post; let me see if I can respond as well.

One of the troubles I have with this idea is that it implies that your emotional status is dependant on the thoughts and feelings of others. That dependancy implies a lack of freedom and self control. We are each our own, and shouldn't our sadness be derived from ourselves and not the thoughts of others?

I understand your basic premise here but I disagree. The existence and presence of others does and should affect us, both practically and emotionally. That's not to say your emotional status should be entirely derived from others, but yes, I think it should sometimes be impacted by others. A person whose emotional (empathic) side is not at all affected by the surrounding others is sociopathic (I believe that's the correct psychological term.) So no, our sadness should not be derived solely from ourselves but should include others.

The effect of this is subtle, usually invisible. And this fits right in with what I was talking about earlier, in terms of judgement. If you are dependant on others emotionally, you are in no place to objectively judge them, to objectively feel sad for them because of their beliefs. This is because their beliefs have power over you.

Actually, without utilizing your empathic resources, you cannot objectively judge them at all, because you have no rational understanding of them (since understanding must to some level encompass their experience.) You can be affected by others emotionally without being dependent on them, and you cannot objectively judge without comprehending that which you are judging. Which leads me to ask, why is objectivity the key here, and how do you define objectivity? Since none of us are capable of being truly objective, how do you make objectivity the criteria for judging something? Yet we judge things every day, and we have some basis for believing in the validity of our judgment. What is the basis then?

But I don't think that's what you're trying to get at. Isn't what you're talking about more of an aloof sort of sadness -- where they are seperate from you and have no power over you, and yet you are sad for them? You long for them to see what you see...?

Yes, this is more of what I was shooting for.

But that is moving away from truth. Truth might be considered an absolute...unchanging...steady...But that longing, that sadness, is not truth...it is an interpretation of truth. Interpretations are not absolute -- they're constantly in flux. So, instead of feeling sad, doesn't the truth mean you should feel joy -- joy at seeing another human being, at loving them because they have their own struggles, their own decisions, their own path which is seperate from you and yet bound up within this truth which they can't escape even if they are oblivious to it.

I didn't assert that feelings = truth, but that truth and a person's relationship to it can produce feelings. Sadness doesn't make something more or less true, nor is it an interpretation of truth. You have to have, in my situation here, both truth and an interpretation of it before the sadness comes in at all. As far as feeling joy, it would depend on what the truth is, I think, as far as feeling joy. Seeing somebody deny truth is not joyous because it will eventually cause them pain, and one's empathic side reacts to that. Similarly, seeing somebody deny a fact (gravity won't cause me to die if I jump off this bridge) causes a reaction because one's practical side resists it.