Do You Feel Safer

[Robor]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I feel safer. AQ was empowered by the Bush administration, and now that Obama has shown he's willing to sit down and talk about things, we really wont need Gitmo anymore. AQ only hated America because of GWB, and now that he's gone, they can focus their attention somewhere else knowing they have a friend in Barak Obama.

How was Dubya the sole motivation behind the 2000 USS Cole attack? How was Dubya the sole motivation behind Bin Laden declaring war against America back in 1996? How was Dubya the sole motivation for Bin Laden to declare in '98 that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill Americans and our allies?

Some of you guys need to check your sarcasm meters!

 

[jonks]

More, not kidding, from the Senate GOP Youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRmBsvWgdbE


How are you supposed to take these people seriously? There's killers in prisons in the US who choppped up their neighbor's kids and dogs and made a chilli out of it, but we can't house terrorists? Are they supervillains with powers we don't yet comprehend? Christ.

Hilary Bok (hilzoy) weighs in:
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com...05/dueling-videos.html

These are not problems that we confronted for the first time after 9/11. They have been with us from the founding of our country. We somehow managed to face down the world's most powerful empire, survive a brutal civil war, defeat Hitler, and live for about forty years with an immense arsenal of thermonuclear weapons pointed at our cities, and do all that without giving up on the rule of law. But let nineteen guys with boxcutters fly planes into our buildings and, apparently, we face a Brand New Existential Threat that causes our entire legal history to fly out of our collective heads.

 

[frostedflakes]

Lol...

I'm in KS and live about 20 mi from a military base (Fort Riley). No qualms about housing some of these guys here as long as the security requirements are good enough, it's not like we don't have plenty of other criminals in maximum security prisons all over the US. I think so far most of the talk has been about taking detainees to Fort Leavenworth, though (maybe they have a better prison than Fort Riley, I don't know).

 

[Lemon law]

We have to somewhat understand that terror attacks were a totally new thing for America when 911 happened, but the Europeans had been subjected to a somewhat endless series of this attacks from the 1970's and even before. And its easy to make the case that there is a reason for that, the USA simply not on the terrorists radar screen as a target, and Europe was, for a global shopping list of reasons having to do with the sins of Europe's colonial past.

While JacksmittUSA does make the case that Bin Laden and Al-Quida targeted the the USA on 911, partly because of Bush Senior sin of basing US troops on Saudi soil during Gulf war One, IMHO, its was not the primary reason for 911. The more important reason, IMHO, was to attack the World Trade Center, whose policies offended many in the third world. And because the World Trade Center headquarters happened to be located in New York City, that is where the attack came. And for that matter, the 911 attack was only the final attack in a long period of other attacks by other groups. And because, from the Al-Quida point of view, the attack was carefully planned to be showy and spectacular, and very successful, it also established Al-Quida, a relatively new organization, as the leading terror group in the world.

But what it should mean from the American point of view is that the main target of 911 was not America itself, and instead it was designed to kill many birds with one stone. (1) 911 was designed to kill the symbol of the world trade center.---something that succeeded beyond all the planners dreams. (2) 911, because of the way it was staffed by Saudi nationals, was designed to get America to blame Saudi Arabia and get Wahabist revenge against the leadership of Saudi Arabia for allowing American troops to be based there.--------something that was revenge totally failed for 911 planners. (3) Because there was so much redundancy built into the plan, once the first two planes hit their target, the other two became expendable to be used against any other target, in the case of 911, the Pentagon and the White house.---in terms of #3, admittedly pure speculation on my part.

But what does it mean going forward? If Al-Quida was not making America a target for future terrorists attacks, the GWB starting of two quagmire wars certainly has elevated the USA to terror target #1 on their radar screens.

And we must also ask, why has not Al-Quida attacked American soil again? Given the fact that Al-Quida is now stronger now than it was on 911, its hard to believe that GWB chest thumping so intimidated Al-Quida. Or that Al-Quida can't smuggle people into the USA and attack all kinds of soft targets homeland security has failed to even try to defend. So I have to conclude, Al-Quida has concluded that the first attack has the USA busily engaging in doing stupid things, and why should they interfere as Uncle Sucker busily commits suicide?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
We have to somewhat understand that terror attacks were a totally new thing for America when 911 happened

edit: nevermind. I know youre not insinuating America has never been attacked before. Im not sure what you meant, but Im sure it isnt that.

 

[BoomerD]

Not Safer? OMFG! Raise the terror alert to ORANGE!!!

 

[Lemon law]

To clarify the Blackagainst1 point of, "edit: nevermind. I know youre not insinuating America has never been attacked before. Im not sure what you meant, but Im sure it isnt that."

I am simply saying that 911 was magnitudes above what America had ever experienced before in terms of a foreign inspired terrorist attack, and its only directly comparable to something like Pearl harbor, which was an attack using the resources of an entire foreign nation. And since the Oklahoma city bombing was an example of domestic terrorism, it does not quite compare either.

Previous attacks on the world trade center by foreign terrorists did not alter the public attitude or governmental action, 911 was the first such attack to really do so in American history.

The other point to mention, is that in less than four years after the Pearl harbor attack, a good part of the US Navy was anchored in Tokyo bay, Imperial Japan was in ruins and utterly defeated, but Al-Quida is as strong or stronger than it was on 911, after 7.5 years and counting.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To clarify the Blackagainst1 point of, "edit: nevermind. I know youre not insinuating America has never been attacked before. Im not sure what you meant, but Im sure it isnt that."

I am simply saying that 911 was magnitudes above what America had ever experienced before in terms of a foreign inspired terrorist attack, and its only directly comparable to something like Pearl harbor, which was an attack using the resources of an entire foreign nation. And since the Oklahoma city bombing was an example of domestic terrorism, it does not quite compare either.

Previous attacks on the world trade center by foreign terrorists did not alter the public attitude or governmental action, 911 was the first such attack to really do so in American history.

The other point to mention, is that in less than four years after the Pearl harbor attack, a good part of the US Navy was anchored in Tokyo bay, Imperial Japan was in ruins and utterly defeated, but Al-Quida is as strong or stronger than it was on 911, after 7.5 years and counting.

Understood. The problem is that with Pearl Harbor we were at war with a country, not an organization. Big difference.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

I have to give the creator of that video credit for completely failing at fear mongering. If anything, this video should be considered pure comedy.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Udgnim

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I feel safer. AQ was empowered by the Bush administration, and now that Obama has shown he's willing to sit down and talk about things, we really wont need Gitmo anymore. AQ only hated America because of GWB, and now that he's gone, they can focus their attention somewhere else knowing they have a friend in Barak Obama.

ty for troll post

Well, glad we are friends now... maybe AQ can help us with the Somalians?

 

[StageLeft]

I would not live in a big city like NYC long term just because when there is a huge attack (and believe me, I think the "war on terror" is hugely overblown, but one day I expect something big to happen), NYC, Chicago, etc. are the key targets and you don't want to be packed like sardines in a can living there when it does.