Do you believe it is possible for the government (in current or +10 yrs state) to run any program well and efficiently?

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No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Optimal efficiency perhaps not but optimal is also lean and runs risks, so certain essential services it may be better to run a bit fat and heavy to ensure continued service at levels that a private enterprise may not optimally profit from.

Anyway, it's not state or federal, and I know it's expensive, but in Rochester I remain very, very pleased with the snow clearing here. There are a ton of vehicles and they are not cheap with the use of salt. They come out sometimes before a storm to put down salt, even, and during storms are out in full force then continue their efforts post-storm until the roads are all in great shape. This contrasts with some other cities I've been in in which the snow clearing takes care of the main stuff but has no qualms about letting slush or other snow sit around for days. I :heart: the snow clearing here. So, efficient, maybe not but they do get the job done and very well, imo.
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
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People in here don't realize how much more efficient and CHEAPER the government is in comparison to private contractors who charge TRIPLE to do the same job. Some of the retirees were replaced by contractors and we have to pay them over $100 hour plus they get to work in the same office and use our phones and supplies. This is nothing more than a kickback from people who are at the top and are friends with the contractors. Smaller government=kick back to private firms.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
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Originally posted by: BarneyFife
People in here don't realize how much more efficient and CHEAPER the government is in comparison to private contractors who charge TRIPLE to do the same job. Some of the retirees were replaced by contractors and we have to pay them over $100 hour plus they get to work in the same office and use our phones and supplies. This is nothing more than a kickback from people who are at the top and are friends with the contractors. Smaller government=kick back to private firms.


That's because government is so dumbed down and corrupt (see Obama) that they don't choose the right contractors.
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
699
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Government - slow, inefficient, greedy, and corrupt
Private companies - Greedy and corrupt

pick your poison.

Fixed and I will take the latter.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
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Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
Originally posted by: rchiu
Government - Often slow, inefficient, greedy, and corrupt
Private companies - Often slow, inefficient, greedy and corrupt

pick your poison.
Fixed and I will take the latter.
Accurately fixed, and both have their place.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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ostif.org
The USPS, The Interstate Highway System (in most states), Unemployment Insurance, Ohio and PA DMV, Many State Universities (in comparison to private schools), FAFSA, PHEEA, US Military, US Police Force (most).

If they are good enough for you to take for granted, they are good.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: Craig234
Of course, but the propaganda saying otherwise is very effective. ...
That's exactly right. Decades of anti-government RNC propaganda had been quite effective with gullible people who need scapegoats for their own frustrations and failures, but the truth is government can be just as good -- and just as bad -- as any private company. I always get a kick out of seeing someone blast big government, then turn around and laud the "economies of scale" one purportedly gets by allowing corporations to grow without restriction. Having worked for and with many government agencies and Fortune 100 companies, I've seen first hand how both can be well-run and efficient, and both can be bureaucratic quagmires dominated by incompetence and greed.
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
699
0
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Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
Originally posted by: rchiu
Government - Often slow, inefficient, greedy, and corrupt
Private companies - Often slow, inefficient, greedy and corrupt

pick your poison.
Fixed and I will take the latter.
Accurately fixed, and both have their place.

True, but if a private company is slow, inefficient, greedy and corrupt I usually go somewhere else where none of those are a problem--hence why the private sector is more efficient; choice. Don't usually get that with govt.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
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Case point - state of michigan websites. The website department of the state is doing a PHENOMENAL job with all their websites (Secretary of state in particular in my experience).
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
True, but if a private company is slow, inefficient, greedy and corrupt I usually go somewhere else where none of those are a problem--hence why the private sector is more efficient; choice. Don't usually get that with govt.
Absolutely true, especially at the federal level (you can move to another town if your local government stinks), but it presumes two things, that you know which companies are bad, and that you have a choice, i.e., there is a non-bad alternative available. As we get fewer and bigger companies, both presumptions become less likely.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
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It is possible, but the problem is that much like banks, wall street peeps, etc....there are those in the government who are mad with power and don't give a damn if their greed and lust for even more power and control is bad for the country.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Efficiently? No.

The first purpose of a government program, regardles of its stated intent, is to perpetuate itself. This automatically means it can't run efficiently.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who really really can't do, run government programs.
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
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LOOK at cta. Chicago transit authority. It is highly inefficient and extremely expensive. In the past 10-15 year, there is like no new route service increase while the administration cost double or triple. They blame the price increase on the gas but that is far from the truth. Does that tell you anything about government run service?
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Efficiently? No.

The first purpose of a government program, regardles of its stated intent, is to perpetuate itself. This automatically means it can't run efficiently.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who really really can't do, run government programs.

People that run government programs are often handcuffed by politicians. Privatization of government services is a scam.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: Xellos2099
LOOK at cta. Chicago transit authority. It is highly inefficient and extremely expensive. In the past 10-15 year, there is like no new route service increase while the administration cost double or triple. They blame the price increase on the gas but that is far from the truth. Does that tell you anything about government run service?
No, it doesn't. It tells you something about the CTA. The plural of "anecdote" is NOT "data."
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
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CTA is government run, believe it or not. And guess what, we got casino bus running here 24/7 to Indiana and they are free to ride on to casino and back. They are free too.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Xellos2099
CTA is government run, believe it or not. And guess what, we got casino bus running here 24/7 to Indiana and they are free to ride on to casino and back. They are free too.
Sorry, "government" isn't a homogeneous monolith. That's the point. Your conclusion that all government is inefficient and inexpensive based on one example is as misguided as concluding that all corporations are corrupt based on the Enron example.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Efficiently? No.

The first purpose of a government program, regardles of its stated intent, is to perpetuate itself. This automatically means it can't run efficiently.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who really really can't do, run government programs.

:thumbsup:
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Efficiently? No.

The first purpose of a government program, regardles of its stated intent, is to perpetuate itself. This automatically means it can't run efficiently.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who really really can't do, run government programs.
:thumbsup:
It's a great bumper sticker, but parroting propaganda doesn't make it meaningful, no matter how earnest you may be. Every organization, public or private, tends to try to perpetuate itself. Following your insinuation, that means all organizations are bad, right? Naturally you also both ignore the counterexamples and the fact that big business can be just as bad as the worst of government.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
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Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Efficiently? No.

The first purpose of a government program, regardles of its stated intent, is to perpetuate itself. This automatically means it can't run efficiently.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who really really can't do, run government programs.
:thumbsup:
It's a great bumper sticker, but parroting propaganda doesn't make it meaningful, no matter how earnest you may be. Every organization, public or private, tends to try to perpetuate itself. Following your insinuation, that means all organizations are bad, right? Naturally you also both ignore the counterexamples and the fact that big business can be just as bad as the worst of government.

I'm not aware of any big businesses that have murdered massive amounts of money overseas.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Efficiently? No.

The first purpose of a government program, regardles of its stated intent, is to perpetuate itself. This automatically means it can't run efficiently.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who really really can't do, run government programs.
:thumbsup:
It's a great bumper sticker, but parroting propaganda doesn't make it meaningful, no matter how earnest you may be. Every organization, public or private, tends to try to perpetuate itself. Following your insinuation, that means all organizations are bad, right? Naturally you also both ignore the counterexamples and the fact that big business can be just as bad as the worst of government.

Except perpetuating one's self in the private sector means changing and becoming more efficient to survive - unlike the gov't where perpetuation means less results to keep the "need" there.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
I'm not aware of any big businesses that have murdered massive amounts of money overseas.
That was random. Do you have a point? I don't think anybody has suggested government is perfect or is the answer to everything. If you'll check the topic, you will find it is about the efficiency and efficacy of government.