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Do you believe in the supernatural? (demons, the devil, angels, etc..)

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Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Originally posted by: Arkitech
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Here is something to ponder:

Why is all of the supposed "evidence" for paranormal, UFOs, psychic powers, ghosts, demons, etc... ALWAYS subjective "personal accounts".

I challenge anyone here to produce objective testable empirical evidence for any of these claims or stories.

I have to admit stories like these seem skeptical but I highly doubt so many different people all over the world could all be lying. I've never personally had an experience with the supernatural (crosses fingers) but I've spoken with many respectable people who have had experiences that could'nt be explained any other way.


......and I find it rather telling that with SOOOOOO many electronic recording devices out in the world today (digital cameras, video-cameras, digital-audio recorders, etc.....) that if these events were realy occuring with the regularity that these stories imply there have been NO RECORDED evidence that has held up to scrutiny (and the amount of evidence presented that has been worthy of even scrutinizing is alarmingly small). Are the ghosts/spirits/boogie men camera shy??

About a year ago there was a really creepy photo on CNN taken at some historical landmark in England. It was posted here I think. It showed a ghostly like figure standing in front of an upper level doorway. Was it authentic I have no idea but it still makes my skin crawl thinking of that and especially seeing it while alone in that spooky place.

Anybody remember what I'm referring to? If you could find a link that would be great too.
 
I've seen pictures from friends and relatives that accidentily captured SOMETHING in the photo. They were shocked to see them when they were developed.
 
I don't believe in angels or demons persay as these relate to the idea of God or religion.

However, I sure as hell belive in ghosts. I've heard too many things from friends of mine and my parents as well as seeing and feeling for myself to not believe in ghosts.
 
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Originally posted by: DAGTA
I've seen pictures from friends and relatives that accidentily captured SOMETHING in the photo. They were shocked to see them when they were developed.


Photograph orbs and artifacts are nothing new.

CHECK OUT THESE SPOOKY PHOTOS!

The photo I was referring to definitely had a human form and was far more detailed than these type. It wasn't an orb or glow. I hope I can find it if nobody does. Again, I realize it could be a fake and proves nothing but if it was real it's definitely a heart stopper.
 
Originally posted by: PanzerIV
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Originally posted by: DAGTA
I've seen pictures from friends and relatives that accidentily captured SOMETHING in the photo. They were shocked to see them when they were developed.


Photograph orbs and artifacts are nothing new.

CHECK OUT THESE SPOOKY PHOTOS!

The photo I was referring to definitely had a human form and was far more detailed than these type. It wasn't an orb or glow. I hope I can find it if nobody does. Again, I realize it could be a fake and proves nothing but if it was real it's definitely a heart stopper.

Ditto on the one I'm remembering. I could clearly see a rib cage and arms. The photo was taken in the late 70's and has yellowed with age. I haven't seen it in almost ten years but I'd love to get a scan of it. If I ever get the opportunity, I will scan it.
 
Yes, I do believe.

How else would you explain the success of Michael Moore and Brittney Spears. Those two MUST have sold their souls to the devil!

I'm also considering becoming the Antichrist. I thought about becoming a televangelist, but I think becoming the Antichrist would be a lot more profitable...and fun!
 
I don't understand how one can believe absolutely in ghosts as existing and at the same time, totally shun that a God could exist.

The best "supernatural" thing I love to hate is when people think everything has an order to be followed--"everything happens for a reason". It isn't just religious people who believe this, many non-believers like the idea too. It is just a copout though. No, no you weren't meant to fvck Darnell without a rubber, get pregnant, have kids, separate from your baby-daddy and drop out of high school. There WAS NO PLAN FOR YOU that is why you are on government money you stupid biatch.
 
Nope.

In my 37 years here on earth, I've seen nothing to suggest anything "supernatural" exists.

I've seen lots of mysteries and unanswered questions. But those are not proof of anything but an unknown.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
It depends on what your definition of "supernatural" is.

Demons, the devil, etc? No.

Do I believe that there are things that we barely know about, let alone understand? Yes.

For example, if energy isn't created nor destroyed, it just changes forms... maybe that is what "ghosts" are.

Of course, we haven't even discovered any sort of "life energy" or anything like that, but I certainly don't rule out the possibility.

What about psychics? That is still currently unexplainable.

Yeah, most are crocks of sh!t.. but there are people with such a gift. Who knows what kind of yet to be discovered energy they're tapping into.

If law enforcement can use psychics with ANY degree of success, you've got to give props where they're due, IMO.

I'm much the same. I don't believe in ghosts or that stuff, and of course most psychics are bogus, but I myself have done some things which I can't explain... Silly stuff, like a friend and I saying the exact same thing at the same time, without any provocation or any reason for either of us to say that. And I know there is still so much we don't understand that something that science says is impossible now may yet turn out to be true.
 
Originally posted by: tk149
Yes, I do believe.

How else would you explain the success of Michael Moore and Brittney Spears. Those two MUST have sold their souls to the devil!

I'm also considering becoming the Antichrist. I thought about becoming a televangelist, but I think becoming the Antichrist would be a lot more profitable...and fun!
You talk as though a televangelist couldn't be the antichrist 🙂.
 
Originally posted by: DWW
I don't understand how one can believe absolutely in ghosts as existing and at the same time, totally shun that a God could exist.
Simple: one has evidence, and neither are really related. Ghosts prove that our minds are in fact very powerful--more than we normally accept--but that in itself does not even prove there is an afterlife, much less a soul (I personally believe there is, though).
The best "supernatural" thing I love to hate is when people think everything has an order to be followed--"everything happens for a reason". It isn't just religious people who believe this, many non-believers like the idea too. It is just a copout though. No, no you weren't meant to fvck Darnell without a rubber, get pregnant, have kids, separate from your baby-daddy and drop out of high school. There WAS NO PLAN FOR YOU that is why you are on government money you stupid biatch.
Things do happen for reasons. Yet you are also given choice. Other forces are clearly at work, even if they can be explained by mathematics at some point, though at certain times you have the ability to actually make a decision. That does not mean there is a plan, though, beyond what you choose.
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: DWW
I don't understand how one can believe absolutely in ghosts as existing and at the same time, totally shun that a God could exist.
Simple: one has evidence, and neither are really related. Ghosts prove that our minds are in fact very powerful--more than we normally accept--but that in itself does not even prove there is an afterlife, much less a soul (I personally believe there is, though).
The best "supernatural" thing I love to hate is when people think everything has an order to be followed--"everything happens for a reason". It isn't just religious people who believe this, many non-believers like the idea too. It is just a copout though. No, no you weren't meant to fvck Darnell without a rubber, get pregnant, have kids, separate from your baby-daddy and drop out of high school. There WAS NO PLAN FOR YOU that is why you are on government money you stupid biatch.
Things do happen for reasons. Yet you are also given choice. Other forces are clearly at work, even if they can be explained by mathematics at some point, though at certain times you have the ability to actually make a decision. That does not mean there is a plan, though, beyond what you choose.

What are you suggesting is the reason for things happening, then?
 
Originally posted by: tk149
Yes, I do believe.

How else would you explain the success of Michael Moore and Brittney Spears. Those two MUST have sold their souls to the devil!

I'm also considering becoming the Antichrist. I thought about becoming a televangelist, but I think becoming the Antichrist would be a lot more profitable...and fun!

Being the antichrist is overated, the capital gains taxes kill any profit you make
 
Originally posted by: Ogg
Originally posted by: tweakmm
Originally posted by: purbeast0
i have never experienced anything myself, but i do believe there are supernatural things out there. one reason is because of these dreams that my gf has constantly. when she is in her apartment, and i am not staying over, nor are any of her other friends, she 99% of the time has the SAME dream. and it is always about this man who is in her bedroom and kind of just walking around, and trying to put his hands on her. it is not the kind of dream where a man is trying to attack her or anything, but just trying to kind of put his hand on her shoulder while she is sleeping. and her dreams are very vivid, as she always remembers details. just in general, when she is like 'drew, i had this wierd dream last night...' and then continues to tell me about it, i am just like 'you remember all those details in your dreams?' because I know that my dreams I can hardly remember most of the time, and as the day goes on they fade away. but her dreams she can remember in detail, with specifics.

its just kind of wierd because she ONLY has this dream when neither I or any of her other friends are sleeping in her apartment with her, and it is always the same man in her dream, standing and walking in the same places in her dream, but the way he walks around and tries to just touch her are different she has told me. she hasn't slept in her apartment by herself in probably a month now because it was really freaking her out.

now i know this is just alot of speculation, but she is starting to think that maybe there is some kind of supernatural thing going on in there, like maybe some man was hurt or died in the room at one time in the apartments life.
If this does not sound like a psychological thing, I don't know what does.

*classic poltergiest activiity*
Rediculous, I would bet a lot of money that if she went to sleep thinking that someone was in another room and that person promply left when she fell asleep she would not have the dream.
 
Originally posted by: azazyel
Originally posted by: Arkitech
What's the story behind the antichrist? I know a little bit about the bible but I can't ever really recall a specific reference to a person or being referred to as the antichrist. Is it a symbolic reference or is it a prophecy? Going a bit further is the antichrists a christian or muslim teaching? or is it in both?

It's Christian from the Book of Revelation as to the antichrist you may want to read this.

"'Apocalypse' was essentially an invective against Rome, built around a never-fulfilled prophecy that the imperial capital would be totally annihilated for daring to besiege Jerusalem (17:3 to 18:21; esp. 17:9; 18:8)."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."
- Revelation 17:9
(The reference, of course, was to the seven hills of Rome.)

"Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."
- Revelation 18:8

"Further invective was directed against the two Emperors responsible for the siege. The apocalyptist called them beasts, and declared that one had been fatally killed, but its fatal wound had healed (13:3), while the second, whom he significantly described in the present tense, bore the number 666 (13:18)."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"And the dragon [some late manuscripts 'And I'] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast."
- Revelation 13:1-3

"The first beast can easily be identified as Nero [ruled from 54-68 CE], in whose reign the war started and who first sent Vespasian to Jerusalem to wage war against the Essenes and to defeat them (13:7). Nero committed suicide, but was nonetheless rumored for many years to have cheated death and to be planning a comeback."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
"Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. "
"This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."
- Revelation 13:7, 11-12, 18

"The beast whose number is 666 and who is exercising all the authority of the first beast (13:12), sometimes identified as Domitian [son of Vespasian, ruled from 81-96 CE] in the belief that the author was a Christian and that his target must have been a persecutor of Christians, was in fact Vespasian. Vespasian was responsible for the assault upon Jerusalem, and was the reigning Emperor at the time of writing."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus


Oxyranchus Papyrus LVI 4499
Other researchers disagree and identify the second beast as Nero.

"Evidently the Great Beast's name or title will add to 666 if its letters are turned into numbers. The obvious candidate for the honor is Nero but Revelation was written in Greek and his name in Greek, Neron, adds to 1,005. However, if his Greek title Neron Kaisar is turned into Hebrew letters, the total is 666 (nun - 50, resh - 200, waw - 6, nun - 50, qoph - 100, samech -60, resh -200). Nero also has the advantage of explaining the western tradition that the number was really 616, for if the Latin Nero Caesar is turned into Hebrew letters, it adds to 616."
- Maryse Choisy, "Great Beast", Man, Myth & Magic, An Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Supernatural

The variant number 616 is "actually found in some manuscripts of the Greek text of Revelation [such as the Oxyranchus papyrus fragment]."
"The sea beast represented the Roman Empire, and the second beast represented the emperor and the emperor worship that was common throughout the empire. Christians from Ephesus might especially have recognized this 'beast'. Their city had built a huge temple for the emperor Domitian housing a colossal statue of this emperor who styled himself 'Lord and God.' The first beast made war on the saints and the second required everyone, on pain of death, to worship an image on the first beast. In Domitian, John evidently; saw the rebirth of the evil embodied in the late emperor Nero, who is represented by the number of the beast, 666 (13:1-18)."
- ABC's of the Bible, Reader's Digest , (1991) pp. 362, 370

Edit: sourse is Mystae.com

the two beasts are the L of N and the UN. and the woman is false religion drunk on it's power only to be devoured by the beast.

 
Originally posted by: azazyel
Originally posted by: Arkitech
What's the story behind the antichrist? I know a little bit about the bible but I can't ever really recall a specific reference to a person or being referred to as the antichrist. Is it a symbolic reference or is it a prophecy? Going a bit further is the antichrists a christian or muslim teaching? or is it in both?

It's Christian from the Book of Revelation as to the antichrist you may want to read this.

"'Apocalypse' was essentially an invective against Rome, built around a never-fulfilled prophecy that the imperial capital would be totally annihilated for daring to besiege Jerusalem (17:3 to 18:21; esp. 17:9; 18:8)."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."
- Revelation 17:9
(The reference, of course, was to the seven hills of Rome.)

"Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."
- Revelation 18:8

"Further invective was directed against the two Emperors responsible for the siege. The apocalyptist called them beasts, and declared that one had been fatally killed, but its fatal wound had healed (13:3), while the second, whom he significantly described in the present tense, bore the number 666 (13:18)."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"And the dragon [some late manuscripts 'And I'] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast."
- Revelation 13:1-3

"The first beast can easily be identified as Nero [ruled from 54-68 CE], in whose reign the war started and who first sent Vespasian to Jerusalem to wage war against the Essenes and to defeat them (13:7). Nero committed suicide, but was nonetheless rumored for many years to have cheated death and to be planning a comeback."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
"Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. "
"This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."
- Revelation 13:7, 11-12, 18

"The beast whose number is 666 and who is exercising all the authority of the first beast (13:12), sometimes identified as Domitian [son of Vespasian, ruled from 81-96 CE] in the belief that the author was a Christian and that his target must have been a persecutor of Christians, was in fact Vespasian. Vespasian was responsible for the assault upon Jerusalem, and was the reigning Emperor at the time of writing."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus


Oxyranchus Papyrus LVI 4499
Other researchers disagree and identify the second beast as Nero.

"Evidently the Great Beast's name or title will add to 666 if its letters are turned into numbers. The obvious candidate for the honor is Nero but Revelation was written in Greek and his name in Greek, Neron, adds to 1,005. However, if his Greek title Neron Kaisar is turned into Hebrew letters, the total is 666 (nun - 50, resh - 200, waw - 6, nun - 50, qoph - 100, samech -60, resh -200). Nero also has the advantage of explaining the western tradition that the number was really 616, for if the Latin Nero Caesar is turned into Hebrew letters, it adds to 616."
- Maryse Choisy, "Great Beast", Man, Myth & Magic, An Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Supernatural

The variant number 616 is "actually found in some manuscripts of the Greek text of Revelation [such as the Oxyranchus papyrus fragment]."
"The sea beast represented the Roman Empire, and the second beast represented the emperor and the emperor worship that was common throughout the empire. Christians from Ephesus might especially have recognized this 'beast'. Their city had built a huge temple for the emperor Domitian housing a colossal statue of this emperor who styled himself 'Lord and God.' The first beast made war on the saints and the second required everyone, on pain of death, to worship an image on the first beast. In Domitian, John evidently; saw the rebirth of the evil embodied in the late emperor Nero, who is represented by the number of the beast, 666 (13:1-18)."
- ABC's of the Bible, Reader's Digest , (1991) pp. 362, 370

Edit: sourse is Mystae.com

The seven-headed wild beast out of the sea. In the vision had by the apostle John and recorded at Revelation 13, a seven-headed, ten-horned wild beast comes up out of the sea, leopardlike, yet with feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. It is thus a composite form of several of the symbols appearing in Daniel?s vision of the four beasts. The dragon, identified at Revelation 12:9 as Satan the Devil, gives the beast its authority and power. (Re 13:1, 2) This beast?s seven heads (bearing ten horns) distinguish it from the one-headed beasts of Daniel?s vision. Seven (and ten) are commonly acknowledged as Biblical symbols of completeness. (See NUMBER, NUMERAL.) This is corroborated by the extent of this beast?s domain, for it exercises authority, not over one nation or a group of nations, but ?over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.? (Re 13:7, 8; compare 16:13, 14.) Noting these factors, The Interpreter?s Dictionary of the Bible comments: ?The first of these beasts [of Re 13] combines in itself the joint characteristics of the four beasts of Daniel?s vision . . . Accordingly, this first beast represents the combined forces of all political rule opposed to God in the world.??Edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 369.

Two-horned beast. Then John saw a beast out of the earth with two horns like those of a harmless lamb, yet speaking as a dragon, exercising the full authority of the first wild beast, just described. It directs making an image of the globally ruling seven-headed beast, putting all persons under compulsion to accept its ?mark.??Re 13:11-17.

It may be recalled that the two-horned ram of Daniel chapter 8 represented a dual power, Medo-Persia. Of course, that power had long since disappeared by the apostle John?s day, and his vision was of things yet future. (Re 1:1) Other dual powers have existed since John?s day, but among these the historical association of Britain and the United States is particularly notable and of long duration.

The other notable characteristic of the two-horned beast, its speaking like a dragon, recalls the ?mouth speaking grandiose things? on the outstanding horn of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 (vss 8, 20-26); while its ?misleading? earth?s inhabitants compares with the deception practiced by the ?fierce king? described at Daniel 8:23-25.?Re 13:11, 14.

The scarlet-colored wild beast. At Revelation 17 the apostle records his vision of a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads and ten horns, mounted by the symbolic woman ?Babylon the Great.? This beast thus resembles, or is in the image of, the first beast of Revelation 13 but is distinct because of its scarlet color and the fact that no crowns are seen on its ten horns. Beholding the beast, John is told that five of the seven kings represented by the seven heads had already fallen, while one existed at that time, and the seventh was yet to come. The scarlet-colored beast itself is an eighth king but springs from or is a product of the previous seven. The ?ten kings? represented by the ten horns exist and exercise authority in association with the scarlet beast for a short time. Warring against the Lamb, Jesus Christ, and those with him, they go down in defeat.?Re 17:3-5, 9-14.

Some scholars would apply this vision to pagan Rome, and the seven heads to seven emperors of Rome, followed by an eighth emperor. They disagree, however, as to which emperors should be included. The Bible itself does not mention more than three Roman emperors by name, with a fourth (Nero) being mentioned under the title of ?Caesar.? Other scholars understand the ?heads? or ?kings? to represent world powers, as in the book of Daniel. It is noteworthy that the Bible does name five world powers in the Hebrew Scriptures, namely, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, while the Greek Scriptures name a sixth, Rome, ruling in John?s day. While this would leave the seventh ?king? unnamed, the fact that it had not yet appeared when John recorded the Revelation would allow for such anonymity. The eighth king, the symbolic scarlet beast, in some way unites in itself these seven heads while at the same time springing from them.

A Case of Mistaken Identity

Since the days of the apostle John, men have claimed that John?s words about an antichrist designate one specific individual. People have proposed various candidates. Centuries ago many thought that Roman Emperor Nero was the antichrist. Later, the flood of hatred and terror let loose by Adolf Hitler convinced many that he was the antichrist. The term was even applied to German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. Yet others believe that the antichrist is still to come and that he will appear as a shrewd, ruthless politician who is out to rule the world. They believe that the wild beast of Revelation chapter 13 is a specific reference to the antichrist mentioned by John. They say that its mark of 666 will somehow identify this future champion of wickedness.

Those promoting these ideas assume that John pointed to just one antichrist. But what do his words show? Consider 1 John 2:18: ?Just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists.? Yes, ?many antichrists,? not one, were responsible for the spiritually troubled situation back in the first century. Today there are, not one, but many antichrists who form the antichrist class. Collectively, they have heaped spiritual ruin upon mankind. (2 Timothy 3:1-5, 13


 
Originally posted by: PanzerIV
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Originally posted by: PanzerIV
Ok, here is the photo. It was taken in Dec. of last year.

It is a hoax

*sigh* It figures. Thanks for the info, I always wondered what became of that.

Uhhh..the website that explains its a hoax doesn't really do much explaining.
They have some crappy logic/arguments and they say that investigators from Paranormal-Investigation.com have proved it ot be a hoax. That's not debunking jack squat. :roll:

Not that I believe in ghosts. 😛
 
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Originally posted by: Arkitech
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Here is something to ponder:

Why is all of the supposed "evidence" for paranormal, UFOs, psychic powers, ghosts, demons, etc... ALWAYS subjective "personal accounts".

I challenge anyone here to produce objective testable empirical evidence for any of these claims or stories.

I have to admit stories like these seem skeptical but I highly doubt so many different people all over the world could all be lying. I've never personally had an experience with the supernatural (crosses fingers) but I've spoken with many respectable people who have had experiences that could'nt be explained any other way.


......and I find it rather telling that with SOOOOOO many electronic recording devices out in the world today (digital cameras, video-cameras, digital-audio recorders, etc.....) that if these events were realy occuring with the regularity that these stories imply there have been NO RECORDED evidence that has held up to scrutiny (and the amount of evidence presented that has been worthy of even scrutinizing is alarmingly small). Are the ghosts/spirits/boogie men camera shy??
You're looking at it too concrete-current-scientifically, or something.

It is entirely possible that we don't know how to scientifically observe these phenomenon yet. What if the form of energies we're talking about here are well out of the electromagnetic spectrum?

Just something to think about. Remember, the Earth used to be flat.
 
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