Do you believe in bible prophecies? (armageddon, etc.)

[Yzzim]

<< Sure I believe in Biblical Prophesy. What I don't necessarily believe in is all of the interpretations that float around.

There are too many Old Testement prophesies written about The Messiah that all came true, including the exact date on which he would die, that were written centuries before Jesus was even born to make any reasonable person say that it was all just a coincidence or that Jesus somehow orchestrated things so that they would all be fulfilled.

A good example of this is Psalm 22. Much of this you could say that Jesus orchestrated or the Apostles lied about when they wrote the Gospels, but Verse 16 says:

Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.

This is a very difficult verse... it was written centuries before Christ, but it was also written in National Isreal where the ONLY form of legal execution was stoning to death. It is further complicated by the fact that although some ancient nations used crucifiction (by tying a person to a tree) it was the Romans, hundreds of years laters who perfected the barbarism by actually NAILING a person there. How does a rational person look at verse 16, about the Messiah and his agony and being put to death with pierced hands and feet, say that it's just coincidence that it was written about before the form of execution existed!

Yeah... I believe in Biblical Prophesy... I'm too rational not to.

Joe >>



Wow! I haven't studied the Prophesy of Christ's birth and His death before. Looks like I've got something to start on this weekend

And yes, I believe in Bible Prophesy.

 

[Arkitech]

<< Sure I believe in Biblical Prophesy. What I don't necessarily believe in is all of the interpretations that float around.

There are too many Old Testement prophesies written about The Messiah that all came true, including the exact date on which he would die, that were written centuries before Jesus was even born to make any reasonable person say that it was all just a coincidence or that Jesus somehow orchestrated things so that they would all be fulfilled.

A good example of this is Psalm 22. Much of this you could say that Jesus orchestrated or the Apostles lied about when they wrote the Gospels, but Verse 16 says:

Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.

This is a very difficult verse... it was written centuries before Christ, but it was also written in National Isreal where the ONLY form of legal execution was stoning to death. It is further complicated by the fact that although some ancient nations used crucifiction (by tying a person to a tree) it was the Romans, hundreds of years laters who perfected the barbarism by actually NAILING a person there. How does a rational person look at verse 16, about the Messiah and his agony and being put to death with pierced hands and feet, say that it's just coincidence that it was written about before the form of execution existed!

Yeah... I believe in Biblical Prophesy... I'm too rational not to.

Joe >>




Good points. There are also some good prophecies that describe how Jesus captors would gamble over his clothing, then there's a chapter in Isaiah that predicts when Jesus would appear. In fact secular Jewish history confirms that there was a rash of self-made prophets who claimed to be the messiah in the year Jesus was to appear. Thats to much of a coincidence to be ignored.

However I can understand why so many people are so skeptical about the bible, too many religious leaders have twisted the scriptures around for their own benefit.

 

[ForsakenGemini]

<< I agree with you that there were always sickness and poverty, but it has never been to the extent that we see it today. Naturally part of this is due to there being so many people on the earth. But also people are more cruel and inhumane than ever before, its no big deal to hear about mothers killing their kids or ex-employees taking out their coworkers. It happens so often that many people are desensitized to those kind of events when they hear them on the news. That kind of thing was predicted in the bible, so it seems that logically that its just a matter of time before we witness armageddon coming into view. >>

It's never been to the extent that we see it today? Boy, buddy, you have no idea how good you have it. Forget all the romantic notions about the Dark and Middle Ages and go do some research on the actual living conditions, OK? Maybe then you'll realise how incomprehensibly wrong you are.

And as for prophecy, Nostradamus once said: At the turn of the millennium, in the seat of the greatest power, the village idiot will come forth and be proclaimed the leader. Hmmmmmm...

-Forsaken

 

[Squisher]

People are victims of domestic violence, muggings, school shootouts and gang/drug related events. Then there's terrorism, serial killings, the recent attempted genocides and of course national conflicts and skirmishes. I hate to sound morbid but thats more violence that what they experienced years ago in the history books.

I agree with Forsaken, you need to do a little research into just how cruel a world this was in the past.



There has never been a generation that hasn't thought they were the last generation on earth.

 

[Arkitech]

<< << I agree with you that there were always sickness and poverty, but it has never been to the extent that we see it today. Naturally part of this is due to there being so many people on the earth. But also people are more cruel and inhumane than ever before, its no big deal to hear about mothers killing their kids or ex-employees taking out their coworkers. It happens so often that many people are desensitized to those kind of events when they hear them on the news. That kind of thing was predicted in the bible, so it seems that logically that its just a matter of time before we witness armageddon coming into view. >>

It's never been to the extent that we see it today? Boy, buddy, you have no idea how good you have it. Forget all the romantic notions about the Dark and Middle Ages and go do some research on the actual living conditions, OK? Maybe then you'll realise how incomprehensibly wrong you are.

And as for prophecy, Nostradamus once said: At the turn of the millennium, in the seat of the greatest power, the village idiot will come forth and be proclaimed the leader. Hmmmmmm...

-Forsaken >>



I'm not denying that there was'nt violence back in the day, but keep this in mind the population on earth today is possibly 5-6 times more than it was hundreds of years ago. Do you think that violence has decreased with so many more people on the Earth today? Now think about how easy it is for even kids to get guns, you can find instructions for building bombs on the internet. Also keep in mind certain countries experience so much crime that they can't even keep up with the numbers (Mexico, Brazil, Somalia)

 

[Elledan]

'Prophecies' are largely based on superstition.

Remember that famous prophecy from Nostradamus which was linked to the events of 9/11? Everyone was all pumped up about it, but then it turned out that some college student had made the 'prophecy' to show how easy it was to create a reasonable sounding prophecy. As long as you keep the prophecy vague enough, one day it will come 'true'.

This student deserves an A, IMHO

BTW, one minor detail the bible doesn't say anything about is that the Jesus as described in the bible never existed.

 

[bulldawg]

<< BTW, one minor detail the bible doesn't say anything about is that the Jesus as described in the bible never existed. >>



And you can prove this by ............?

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< BTW, one minor detail the bible doesn't say anything about is that the Jesus as described in the bible never existed. >>



And you can prove this by ............? >>

Jesus: History or Myth?

 

[BlueApple]

Text

 

[Nemesis77]

<< I agree with you that there were always sickness and poverty, but it has never been to the extent that we see it today. >>



Actually, I believe people are generally speaking better well-off today than they were before. Of course too many people still live in sub-standard conditions, but it was even worse before. The only difference is that we get to know about all that suffering through television (and the internet), earlier we did not.

 

[DannyLove]

i've read the last chapter of the bible and it scared me to death that it MADE me believe it

:Q
danny~!

 

[trmiv]

Why would I believe something from a book that I think is pure fiction? That's like asking me if I think the events in The Hobbit really happened.

 

[bluemax]

<< There is a difference between believing in the bible and relating it to today. Show me a passage that STATES CLEARLY a fact that is coming true today and i'll bow. The problem is that the bible is so vague on certain topics, that some things will come true. >>


Well, I can think of a couple examples off the top of my head.
The book of Daniel prophecied the kingdoms of the world, from the Babylonians, to the Romans, Medo-Persians, (etc.) until the statue of different substances came to the feet of iron and clay, (specifically the ten toes) which were strong but could never bond together. Further prohecies would come in the book of Daniel replacing those ten toes (nations of Europe) with ten horns. Out of this would come a "little horn" which spoke pompous, blaspemous words and would pluck out three of the other horns and would attempt to change God's laws. This was explained in less "ambiguous" terms as well, but I'll sum it up for you.

Throughout history, man has tried to unite Europe into one huge nation and failed. Russia, Nazi Germany.... none have succeeded.
Of the ten nations of Europe, seven remain. Three were destroyed in the first few hundred years of Christianity by a certain power. This power has also attempted to change God's laws as predicted - it is no longer a big secret that this power has "officially" changed the Lord's Sabbath (the seventh day) from Saturday to the more popular Sunday. This power is now the largest political force in the world today, and by far the richest.
This force is the Roman Catholic Papacy.
(Get me right here - Catholic people aren't bad! The system made by the Papacy is what's been twisted into something totally different from what it was supposed to be.)


Another example: In Revealation it is predicted that God's remnant people will not be able to buy or sell without "the mark of the beast" on the hand or head. Of course there have been many a theory of that one, but with today's big push for "smart cards" and thumb-printing, this is becoming more of a reality than even *I* thought!
There are many states in the USA that force thumb-printing to get your drivers' lisence for example. Europe has got the "smart card" system well underway and there's talk to bringing it full-force to the US. There's also talk of getting the chip imbedded into the hand instead of carring around a card to lose or get stolen. A time is rapidly coming where certain people will not be allowed this ability to buy and sell... just as predicted.


Now that's just off the top of my head. You want more?

 

[deus79]

They are in fact all true and coming true
I've read the book of revelation
most people don't understand it
for those of you who don't I'll tell you
JESUS WINS
Look up for your redemption draws nigh

 

[MF1]

NO!

 

[bluemax]

Do people even read my posts? [sigh]

 

[LordMaul]

 

[deus79]

that was a great post with a lot of good info Bluemax

we hear ya!

 

[Tripleshot]

>>>Do people even read my posts? [sigh] <<<

Yes, bluemax, some of us do.

 

[bgruver]

No

 

[ILikeSprite]

no

 

[Atlantean]

I believe most of them. Lets just say that if some world leader ever wants every person to implant a microchip (mark of the beast thing from revelation) or something in their hand or on their forehead that I will not do that.

 

The mysteries of the prophecies, especially those written ages before, is that we have no verifcationism and it is almost impossible to rule out insignificant factors.

So, the prophecies of the Bible was written ages ago. Mankind has existed for much longer than the prophecies. What assurance can I get that human nature at will, for instance, is not the causal effect of the prophecies occuring; thus the same events may have re-occurred since the time of the prophets? Or what assures me that the law of nature hasn't acted in accordance, so that a prophecy having to do with an event is not simply one which follows the law of nature mankind (or I) may not have uncovered?

The mysteries of prophecies. . . . They fail on verificationism, I think. But I still luv to hear prophecies and check them to see if they "come true", despite how unverifiable they are in almost all cases.

 

[Arkitech]

<<

<<

<< BTW, one minor detail the bible doesn't say anything about is that the Jesus as described in the bible never existed. >>



And you can prove this by ............? >>

Jesus: History or Myth? >>



I skimmed through some of the paragraphs on that link. On the surface some of the argumentation they make appears to be legitmate and logical but if you do a bit more examination its not as straight forward as the author of that document would have you beleive.

One of the first claims is that no historians during that time (with the exception of Josephus) wrote about Jesus. Now while we could challenge the validity of that piece of information we'll in this instance assume that the statement is correct. The majority of Jesus' recorded activities in the bible did not take place until the age of 30. So basically his first 29 years of life were pretty much just like anyone else. When he turned 30 and began his missionary work as the messiah many of his neighbors and friends in his own community did not believe he was truly the messiah. In fact they tried to kill him for blasphemy. Now you might ask why would they doubt Jesus if he could perform miracles. Well if you read the gospel accounts you realize that Jesus did not perform miracles to win over doubters. He prefered to teach as opposed to putting on a show of miracles and holy spirit. So basically the point of this is that many historians may have chosen not to believe Jesus was the messiah unless they saw for themselves what he was capable of.

Another angle to consider is that the MAJORITY of jewish religious teachers were opposed to what Jesus was teaching. Many of these religious leaders had considerable influence in the Jewish and Roman communities. In fact it was ultimately the religious leaders who turned Jesus over to Pontius Pilate and it was these same leaders who incited the crowd to urge Pilate to execute Jesus. So no doubt it was easy to see that these religous leaders had considerable influence. With that in mind would it be hard to beleive that these same men who hated Jesus could have influenced historians or even denied the fact that he was the messiah? Defintely something to ponder.

Finally the author of that article claims that perhaps Josephus (the jewish historian) works had been tampered with. And that possibly someone added Jesus existence into his writings. Claims of this sort are very difficult to dispute or even prove valid. But it seems that if this piece of information was a work of forgery, other areas of Josephus works would be faulty as well. Fortunately this is not the case, Josephus has been noted for centuries as a historian who was a very thorough and credible historian. Furthermore many of his writings can be verified by comparing them with other documents and findings of historical signficance.

So to wrap this up, that article really did'nt do much to provide substantiated facts to disprove that Jesus did'nt exist. If anything all it did was ask "what if".

 

[Arkitech]

<< The mysteries of the prophecies, especially those written ages before, is that we have no verifcationism and it is almost impossible to rule out insignificant factors.

So, the prophecies of the Bible was written ages ago. Mankind has existed for much longer even. What assurance can I get that human nature at wil, for instance, is not the causal effect of the prophecies occuring; thus the same events may have re-occurred since the time of the prophet? Or what assures me that the law of nature hasn't acted in accordance, so that a prophecy having to do with an event is not simply one which follows the law of nature mankind or I may not have uncovered?

Ther mysteries of prophecies. . . . They fail on verificationism, I think. But I still luv to hear prophecies and chekc them to see if they "come true", despite how unverifiable they are in almost all cases. >>



One of the best examples of bibical prophecies that are very detailed and specific is in the book of Daniel. The prophecy in that book of the bible foretold the rise of nations so accurately that it even identified rulers hundreds of years in the future by name. It also went on to foretell the conquests of Alexander the great and how his kingdom was split into 4 parts by his generals after he died. If you're interested I can tell you which chapters to read in the bible and then you can compare it with any history book that covers the time period between the Persian dynasty and the conquests of Alexander the great.