Do you agree with sharing Nikolas Cruz’s manifesto

[UglyCasanova]

It’s out there and the media from WaPo to Fox News to whomever has it posted. From a journalistic standpoint do you think posting it is a responsible thing to do? I think a lot of these are copycat fantasies and this only serves to fuel it.

 

[Paratus]

I’m concerned

 

[realibrad]

I’m concerned

Is that sarcasm?

@interchange

Do you feel like this is something that in part drives copycats? I'm on a train to London right now so I can't look up the details, but I feel like this will help glorify him in some dangerous circles. I'm interested in you insight here.

 

[Homerboy]

Well, one way or another, it is getting out there. It's just not something that is going to stay out of circulation.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, one way or another, it is getting out there. It's just not something that is going to stay out of circulation.

Maybe, but Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold’s journals have never gotten out as far as I know.

 

[Homerboy]

Maybe, but Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold’s journals have never gotten out as far as I know.

That's a good point. Unibomber's did though!

 

[UglyCasanova]

Maybe, but Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold’s journals have never gotten out as far as I know.

Nor did the Vegas shooters letter he wrote I don’t think.

 

[dank69]

I generally prefer getting everything out in the open.

 

[zinfamous]

That's a good point. Unibomber's did though!

Unibomber's manifesto was intentionally released because he made a demand to release, in lieu of sending out more bombs.

 

[pauldun170]

Doesn't matter at this point.
Manifestos no longer matter. Publicity no longer matters.

This is now an accepted cultural practice where suicides must be accompanied by mass murder.
"Going out and taking everyone with me"

In the old days, these kids would have offed themselves in private.
Now everyone wants to go out in a blaze of glory.

 

[Moonbeam]

Doesn't matter at this point.
Manifestos no longer matter. Publicity no longer matters.

This is now an accepted cultural practice where suicides must be accompanied by mass murder.
"Going out and taking everyone with me"

In the old days, these kids would have offed themselves in private.
Now everyone wants to go out in a blaze of glory.

The suppressed fear and hatred generated by a competitive society means that the unconscious aim of everybody is to make everybody else feel insignificant. A blaze of glory is revenge for a lifetime of being subjected to this.

 

[umbrella39]

He talks about the body count and how he was going to achieve it with an AR-15 and some tracers without so much as an iota of emotion... That's probably why it's out there...

 

[UglyCasanova]

I generally prefer getting everything out in the open.

I’d rather we ere on the side of transparency as well. There’s a moralistic line that has to be walked though. If columbine was buried I honestly don’t think we’d have nearly as many of these school shootings.

 

[interchange]

@interchange

Do you feel like this is something that in part drives copycats? I'm on a train to London right now so I can't look up the details, but I feel like this will help glorify him in some dangerous circles. I'm interested in you insight here.

Yes although I don't know if there's any specific evidence out there to draw from. As for the Unabomber, the manifesto was released for specific purpose because his identity was unknown. It worked -- doing so led to Kaczynski's brother tipping off police because the writing sounded familiar.

 

[Sunburn74]

I don't like the precedent. To me it encourages other shooters. Shoot a school, get famous, and have your manifesto published.

 

[realibrad]

I’m concerned

So, I'm back in the UK working wifi. I see interchange gave his opinion with the caveats (professional as always lol).

I also had some time for research.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117259



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sltb.12366

The first one seemed to find a link, and the second makes that cloudy but still recommends against releasing things like this.

But hey, the op is disliked by you so ignore expert opinions and data right?

 

[brycejones]

I’m concerned

Are you as concerned as the OP though? He is very, very, very concerned.

 

[brycejones]

If columbine was buried I honestly don’t think we’d have nearly as many of these school shootings.

Yep just wish away the bad and no more bad stuff will happen.

 

[realibrad]

Yep just wish away the bad and no more bad stuff will happen.

Are you trying to say that holding back the manifesto is the same as wishing away the totality of the bad thing?

I posted expert research saying we should limit coverage. But, maybe you know more than they do. What is your expert background that qualifies your opinion over theirs and their data?

 

[Paratus]

Is that sarcasm?

@interchange

Do you feel like this is something that in part drives copycats? I'm on a train to London right now so I can't look up the details, but I feel like this will help glorify him in some dangerous circles. I'm interested in you insight here.

I would classify it as a friendly dig at the OP.

That being said there is always the risk of a copy cat with mass shootings, manifestos or not.

A kid brought a gun to my daughters middle school the Monday after the Friday shooting in Santa Fe TX.

 

[realibrad]

I would classify it as a friendly dig at the OP.

That being said there is always the risk of a copy cat with mass shootings, manifestos or not.

A kid brought a gun to my daughters middle school the Monday after the Friday shooting in Santa Fe TX.

So, the op brings another interesting topic, and your response is to say what.

I don't get why you care about the op. The topic is worthy and a good discussion can happen. Yet you and others dig at this guy instead. I mean, how many of his threads have gotten hundreds and sometimes thousands of comments?

If you think he is trolling then would not ignoring him be better? He does not seem to be showing down, so what is the point of what you are doing?

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Doesn't matter at this point.
Manifestos no longer matter. Publicity no longer matters.

This is now an accepted cultural practice where suicides must be accompanied by mass murder.
"Going out and taking everyone with me"

In the old days, these kids would have offed themselves in private.
Now everyone wants to go out in a blaze of glory.

And you don't think getting their manifestos out there makes it more attractive?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

fuck him, no. he deserves no name in history, only the victims of his heinous act deserve to be remembered.

 

[Paratus]

So, the op brings another interesting topic, and your response is to say what.

I don't get why you care about the op.

The OP and I and you for that matter are all members of AT P&N. That makes us a community of sorts. Due to the relationships inside that community, tenous as they maybe, I care enough to read the posts of the members here.

For the OP in particular, while I don’t agree with his politics I had considered him to be fairly grounded in his viewpoints. Recently I’ve come to question that assessment and I find it concerning (no irony intended).

The topic is worthy and a good discussion can happen.

You and the OP may find it worthy, others may not. Although I don’t actually find anything wrong with this topic.

Yet you and others dig at this guy instead.

A dig is mild rebuke using humor to take some of the edge off, at least how I intended it. The OP has posted several thread recently that don’t seem to be done in good faith to many members in the community. So due to my aforementioned concern these digs are a small push towards changing his behavior.

I mean, how many of his threads have gotten hundreds and sometimes thousands of comments?

The most controversial threads or threads with trolling generally get the most comments here. So number of posts isn’t necessarily the best indicator of a quality thread in my opinion.

If you think he is trolling then would not ignoring him be better?

Only if I didn’t have a point to make

He does not seem to be showing down, so what is the point of what you are doing?

There were a few points.

1. In communities such as this there sides taken. By using the word ‘concern’ I was publicly adding my voice to side that sees an issue with the OPs posting style recently
2. To help the OP (from my point of view) by mildly warning him that his posting style is making me take him less seriously. (He does not need to take that warning obviously, not change his posting style on my account and if it came across harsher than I meant I am more than willing to apologize to the OP)
3. To provide a rebuke in a manner that didn’t violate the rules of P&N
4. Finally a self-serving point. To get a few laughs and likes out of people who feel the same way

Now I’ve answered you this way not to be insulting but because in the past I’ve found it to be frustrating when trying to get my point across to you. You think very differently than I do.

This time I’m trying a new approach by being thorough and direct and evaluating the response.

 

[Greenman]

I don't see any reason to release it. The writings of the criminally insane can't be a good read. Unless there is some compelling lesson for all of us to learn by reading it, I'd say shred it.
I don't like giving murderers and terrorists a soap box to stand on. Their minds are warped, their reality isn't the same one the rest of us inhabit, why pretend that their words have meaning?